Liverpool : General discussion

I always get the feeling Rodgers judges his transfer targets in what they look like on paper. Firmino and Countinho flanking Benteke la, creativity and power up front!!!!!
There are so many good signings that have come into the league and hit the ground running and yet Liverpool are where they are is a joke. It's not as if the tier below world class players aren't clammering to come to England to get a piece of the ridiculous wages on offer.
 
rednev said:
You've got very little chance of being able to press on from 5/6th for the foreseeable future. You've only managed one top 4 finish in the last 6 years and that was because of Suarez being insanely good and Sturridge having a freak season - it was a fluke, basically. You are miles behind the big 4 and even if one of the big 4 does drop out due to a bad season, you will not be number one in the pecking order for a couple of seasons at least. And the depressing thing (for you) is that even if you do manage to break in to the top 4, it will be a one-off event like last season. You no longer have the infrastructure to be able to compete at the top level on a regular basis.
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They're next in order though, they are still better than Spurs and Everton.
 
Kasper said:
If they're smart they will have to act quickly. Rodgers obviously won't be there at this point next year, it's just a question if they sack him now before christmas or if they wait till end of the season. With Klopp and Favre there are two good managers available right now who would take the Liverpool job (Ancelotti is available as well but I doubt he would go to Pool) - it will be different in the summer, where I see quite a few manager jobs available at bigger clubs than Liverpool.
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True. Come 2016 I believe Bayern and Real Madrid might be looking for new managers, not unthinkable that there will be more high-profile jobs going around too.
 
Sarni said:
They're next in order though, they are still better than Spurs and Everton.
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Doubtful. Spurs have finished above Liverpool in 5 out of the last 6 seasons, including last season. And both Everton and Spurs have improved their squads compared to last season.

Liverpool's biggest problem is the manager. They seem to have no clear idea as to how they want to play, partly with the result that their transfer policy has too much of a haphazard feel to it. Take their approach to attacking for example. One season it's mainly supposed to be about arial and bullish power (Carroll), then it's meant to be mainly about pace and guile, and now we're back to arial and bullish power again (Benteke).
 
GlastonSpur said:
Doubtful. Spurs have finished above Liverpool in 5 out of the last 6 seasons, including last season. And both Everton and Spurs have improved their squads compared to last season.

Liverpool's biggest problem is the manager. They seem to have no clear idea as to how they want to play, partly with the result that their transfer policy has too much of a haphazard feel to it. Take their approach to attacking for example. One season it's mainly supposed to be about arial and bullish power (Carroll), then it's meant to be mainly about pace and guile, and now we're back to arial and bullish power again (Benteke).
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Yeah but Liverpool surrendered last season when it was decided that they wouldn't get top 4. They're slightly better than you IMO.
 
Jaysus they've some tough run of games coming up to in the league, after the Villa game at least:

Villa (H)
Everton (A)
Spurs (A)
Southampton (H)
Chelsea (A)
Palace (H)
City (A)
Swansea (H)
Newcastle (A)

There aren't any of those that are bankers for Liverpool, even the home games (excluding Villa) are dodgy. With a bad run of form, the Newcastle game won't be comfortable either.

Can definitely see Rodgers not making it to Christmas.
 
Gee Male said:
Jaysus they've some tough run of games coming up to in the league, after the Villa game at least:

Villa (H)
Everton (A)
Spurs (A)
Southampton (H)
Chelsea (A)
Palace (H)
City (A)
Swansea (H)
Newcastle (A)

There aren't any of those that are bankers for Liverpool, even the home games (excluding Villa) are dodgy. With a bad run of form, the Newcastle game won't be comfortable either.

Can definitely see Rodgers not making it to Christmas.
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Even the Villa game isn't a banker, Villa at Anfield has been a bit of a banana skin for them recently. Lost 0-1 there last season, drew 2-2 the season before and lost 1-3 back in the 12/13 season.
 
Gee Male said:
Jaysus they've some tough run of games coming up to in the league, after the Villa game at least:

Villa (H)
Everton (A)
Spurs (A)
Southampton (H)
Chelsea (A)
Palace (H)
City (A)
Swansea (H)
Newcastle (A)

There aren't any of those that are bankers for Liverpool, even the home games (excluding Villa) are dodgy. With a bad run of form, the Newcastle game won't be comfortable either.

Can definitely see Rodgers not making it to Christmas.
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They just drew to Norwich at home, there are no bankers for them at all in this league.
 
vodrake said:
Even the Villa game isn't a banker, Villa at Anfield has been a bit of a banana skin for them recently. Lost 0-1 there last season, drew 2-2 the season before and lost 1-3 back in the 12/13 season.
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Fair point, but Benteke switching sides will surely impact that.

If he doesn't get a result against Villa, then I think the knives will definitely be out in Anfield.

I didn't see the game against Norwich yesterday, was there booing at the end or anything?
 
Jerch said:
It's really not good squad and yes should be better then 13th but spots from 5-8 seems like a good result for that squad.

They have a bad GK, bad defense, nothing like good midfield, no good wingers and a lot of midtable strikers. Other then a Coutinho, but he still is incosistent and Sturridge, if he can replicate his form from 13/14, i have doubts he can, they really don't have players who could be in the starting lineup for a top 4 team.

Their team is a mess and a much bigger mess than was our team in 13/14.
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Agree on the GK, he is shocking. Disagree a little on the defence. I think Clyne is a very good player and under a good manager I think Skrtel and Sakho could be a good CB pairing. Good enough for 5th at least. They lack a good CM but they have creative players who would flourish under the right manager. Striking options are pretty good compared to a lot of others too, especially if Sturridge is fit.
 
Varun said:
I don't think that's fair on Liverpool. As much as some deluded RAWKites might like to believe, they do not have the spending power we do. That in turn means they can neither afford to make as many mistakes or correct them as quickly.

The likes of Benteke, Firmino etc are the level of players they can get. It's when the manager goes for daft signings like Lambert that problems arise. Henderson is easily good enough for them, so are young talents like Ibe and Gomez. It's upto them to have a squad wherein these players are developed rather than be starters and the pressure that comes with it.

The way to the top is aa long one for clubs like Pool unless you have a worldie pulling you there like Suarez did. They have the resources to finish 5th. They need to make it happen though with good signings which they haven't done. Even with their current squad, if they play to their ability, they can do it. Atm though, they play poorly.

I do agree about Rodgers's signings though. Far too much money spent on dross. He needs to do better with his resources and more importantly, needs to make better use of what he has. There is no way they can't beat the likes of Spurs or Everton to the 5th spot.
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I understand what you are saying regarding the level of players available to them; Beneteke, Firminho, Clyne etc....but it's clear from both our posts that we are agreed that these are decent players but they will only take you so far

Those three players cost around £80m - my point is would they not have been far, far better investing that in two exciting and younger prospects? I know these players are hardly "old" but you do feel that they are now at an age where they are not suddenly going to become world class overnight. For example, Depay was £25m, Martial was £36m. You may argue that these two players wouldn't have joined Liverpool but that is why they need to get ahead of the curve and maybe gamble on these players a year before the real big players become seriously interested

Just signing the same old reliable but limited PL players has proven itself not to work and it hasn't worked for them in the past.
 
dwd said:
In fairness, there are no bankers for anyone.
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Yeah I think this is a point worth making in the Liverpool context. There's an awful lot being made about the English club's performances in the CL, with some floating the idea of the strong competition in the PL being a hindrance to CL performance. While I don't necessarily subscribe to that viewpoint/excuse, it is fair to say that the teams that would ordinarily be finishing in the kind of 8th to 14th spots have improved a lot in standard - the likes of West Ham, Stoke (despite their poor start), Swansea, Palace etc.

That improvement might lead to more dropped points from the likes of Chelsea and City, but it will also squeeze the likes of Liverpool and Spurs a lot too. It's not a stretch to see those being dragged into a battle for points and position outside of where they would be hoping to compete this season.
 
Daniel Storey, Football 365:
Russell Martin expertly flicked home his third goal of the season. That's as many as any Liverpool striker has managed since September 2014.
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And you thought we had it tough with Falcao, RVP and Pub?
 
ZDwyr said:
Agree on the GK, he is shocking. Disagree a little on the defence. I think Clyne is a very good player and under a good manager I think Skrtel and Sakho could be a good CB pairing. Good enough for 5th at least. They lack a good CM but they have creative players who would flourish under the right manager. Striking options are pretty good compared to a lot of others too, especially if Sturridge is fit.
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A lot if's, but's and could. Agree on Clyne he is good but Skrtel is not getting any better and Sakho is a mistery one (why he is not playing if he is that good?). Moreno is also a mistery being benched by kid who is CB playing at LB and Gomez didn't showed enough to be considereed a good option. I rather not talk about Toure or Lovren.
They don't have any good DM or a CM who could dictate a game like Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin and Carrick are doing for us. And who are those "creative players" who would flourish under the right manager? Maybe Coutinho but it tells you a lot how much is he rated that he don't get into weak Brazilian national team, he is really incosistent and need to work on his decision making, Firminio didn't showed anything in their 4 games i watched and again Lallana and his turns is just not good enough.
In attack they have Ings - low-midtable striker and similar singning to Lambert, Benteke who didn't convinced so far and i really don't rate him, Sturridge who have to stay fit for more then a month to be considered an option and Ibe who is good but not great talent.

It reminds me a lot of our squad in 2013/14 season when we rated the likes of Cleverley, Welbeck and Kagawa as the next big thing, when we believed Vidic and Ferdinand can still do the job, when we were saying Rafael and Nani are WC players who just need to overcome their injuries and incosistency and so on and so on. A lot if's and but's but in the end when the manager who know what he is doing came we sold most of them.

And i think Liverpool owners are afraid the same thing will happen at Liverpool and i am pretty sure it will happen if they go for another manager. The only diference is that Glazers knew that they didn't spend what they should for a long time and were prepared to open their pockets when the Liverpool owners spend quite a lot but it isn't working.

I am confident that they will back him until the end of the season, if they finish 5th Rodgers will definetly stay because this would be a great result, if they finish in worse position he could possibly go but i don't know if their owners are prepared to spend the same sort of money as we did and they can't attract the same players as we did.

eidt: sry for so much grammar and spelling mistakes...
 
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Jerch said:
For a start a midfield of McCharty, Cleverley and Barkley is much more balanced then a Henderson, Milner and Coutinho. You can argue that a midfield of Henderson, Can and Coutinho is better then the Everton one. And they could played Milner on a wing because TBF they lack good wingers.
But i think you underestimate all three players in that Everton midfield. McCharty is very good especially for top-midtable side, you clearly underestimate Cleverley and if you would ask me who is more overrated, Barkley or Coutinho i know who would i answer.

As for Lukaku he is 2 years younger then Benteke and scored 20 (in 48 games) last season to Beteke 15 (in 33 games) and he had a bad season. This season Lukaku scored 4 in 7 games and Benteke 2 is 6 games. I think Lukaku is better then Benteke but if this is debatable, the one who have a higher potential is clearly Lukaku.
And people forget that Sturridge is not a young promising striker anymore, he is 26, he is injuried for more then half of his career and i can't see him staying fit for a long time. He had one wordclass season and a good first half of the season with Liverpool but the injuries keeps coming one after another.
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We'd have to agree to disagree then especially about the strikers bit. Sturridge > Benteke > lukaku for me. Potential doesn't matter as we are discussing current ability. I get the concerns over Sturridge's fitness but even their 2nd striker is better than Everton's. Ditto in the midfield, coutinho > barkley for me. I actually have Barry as Everton's most important CM and Barry + Mccarthy < or at best = Henderson + Milner/Can.
 
FC Ronaldo said:
Daniel Storey, Football 365:


And you thought we had it tough with Falcao, RVP and Pub?
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At first I thought it was any Liverpool striker last season, but it's just the ones who are still at the club. Balotelli and Lambert scored a few between them along with Sturridge, so obviously only Sturridges goals count. I think they only scored like 7 between them :lol:

It's still really really poor though.
 
Lentwood said:
I understand what you are saying regarding the level of players available to them; Beneteke, Firminho, Clyne etc....but it's clear from both our posts that we are agreed that these are decent players but they will only take you so far

Those three players cost around £80m - my point is would they not have been far, far better investing that in two exciting and younger prospects? I know these players are hardly "old" but you do feel that they are now at an age where they are not suddenly going to become world class overnight. For example, Depay was £25m, Martial was £36m. You may argue that these two players wouldn't have joined Liverpool but that is why they need to get ahead of the curve and maybe gamble on these players a year before the real big players become seriously interested

Just signing the same old reliable but limited PL players has proven itself not to work and it hasn't worked for them in the past.
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That's what. They don't have the squad quality to make such gambles. They needed to improve their 11 and did so. Taking gambles on talented kids over such players can only be done when you don't need them to deliver straightaway anyways.

I agree these players won't take them to the top but I also believe they have to go through this process anyways because unless you are a City or a Chelsea, you can't simply buy the top talent while not being there or thereabouts yourself.
 
Adisa said:
:lol: Feck off. That's bullshit.
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I had a little check, it's true. Out of Liverpools current strikers, only Sturridge scored 3 for Liverpool (4 if you include games before September 2014). Slightly unfair considering Liverpool got rid of 2 of their starting strikers in the summer, but they barely scored any goals last season anyway.
 
Raw said:
I had a little check, it's true. Out of Liverpools current strikers, only Sturridge scored 3 for Liverpool (4 if you include games before September 2014). Slightly unfair considering Liverpool got rid of 2 of their starting strikers in the summer, but they barely scored any goals last season anyway.
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:lol: Shocking stuff. Even Falcao got 4.
 
Varun said:
We'd have to agree to disagree then especially about the strikers bit. Sturridge > Benteke > lukaku for me. Potential doesn't matter as we are discussing current ability. I get the concerns over Sturridge's fitness but even their 2nd striker is better than Everton's. Ditto in the midfield, coutinho > barkley for me. I actually have Barry as Everton's most important CM and Barry + Mccarthy < or at best = Henderson + Milner/Can.
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I disagree on the midfield. Individually coutinho, milner and henderson are better players (just about) but theres no balance to it.
Theres no real guile to get the ball rolling from deep and keep the defence covered.

I'd take barry + mccarthy over henderson and milner every time.
Can ... haven't seen a huge amount of him in a relevant position and while rodgers is around hes not going to play in a relevant position so it doesn't matter much.

I think the difference between lukaku and benteke is much of a muchness really too. Theres a good chance that sturridge is irrelevant again.

I think liverpool have a lot of good (or potentially good) players. Its just what they're lacking in a lot of cases.
They have no wingers, not much pace up front, no dm, no competent cb's and their keeper is pretty poor.

Everton could do with some cover at cb by comparison.
 
I'm going to my second ever Liverpool game against Soton next month, the first one being the 3-2 against City two years ago. I'm taking my girlfriend with me and have been raving about the atmosphere in Anfield but I'm worried it'll be more like a graveyard, wasn't a lot of noise yesterday either from what I could hear on the telly..

We need to sack Rodgers asap, even if Klopp doesn't want to join us.
 
RobinLFC said:
I'm going to my second ever Liverpool game against Soton next month, the first one being the 3-2 against City two years ago. I'm taking my girlfriend with me and have been raving about the atmosphere in Anfield but I'm worried it'll be more like a graveyard, wasn't a lot of noise yesterday either from what I could hear on the telly..

We need to sack Rodgers asap, even if Klopp doesn't want to join us.
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Hope you enjoy it mate.
 
RobinLFC said:
I'm going to my second ever Liverpool game against Soton next month, the first one being the 3-2 against City two years ago. I'm taking my girlfriend with me and have been raving about the atmosphere in Anfield but I'm worried it'll be more like a graveyard, wasn't a lot of noise yesterday either from what I could hear on the telly..

We need to sack Rodgers asap, even if Klopp doesn't want to join us.
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Poor guy.

Edit: ofcourse I wish you have a great fun but really can't see it
 
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caid said:
I disagree on the midfield. Individually coutinho, milner and henderson are better players (just about) but theres no balance to it.
Theres no real guile to get the ball rolling from deep and keep the defence covered.

I'd take barry + mccarthy over henderson and milner every time.
Can ... haven't seen a huge amount of him in a relevant position and while rodgers is around hes not going to play in a relevant position so it doesn't matter much.

I think the difference between lukaku and benteke is much of a muchness really too. Theres a good chance that sturridge is irrelevant again.

I think liverpool have a lot of good (or potentially good) players. Its just what they're lacking in a lot of cases.
They have no wingers, not much pace up front, no dm, no competent cb's and their keeper is pretty poor.

Everton could do with some cover at cb by comparison.
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Fair enough. As I said to someone else earlier, matter of how we rate them as players really. For me, the pool CB + GK is definitely inferior to Everton and Spurs both. Their strikers are better imo while the midfield is better too potentially but none of that is working which is Rodgers's fault.
 
Varun said:
Henderson Milner Can are good options for the middle 2. Coutinho and Firmino are obviously good options for the #10. He isn't getting the best out of them, it isn't a lack of quality considering no one expects them to be title challengers but to be 5th ahead of the likes of Everton and Spurs. Barry, mccarthy, Gibson and Dyer, Mason, Bentaleb are their options for the middle 2.
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IMO, he's not a centre mid, he belongs on the right, hich itself is a classic example of Brentan playing someone out of position.
 
Phurry said:
IMO, he's not a centre mid, he belongs on the right, hich itself is a classic example of Brentan playing someone out of position.
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He is originally a CM. He was just used out wide at City. I read he wants to play CM and that was a big reason why he moved to Pool in the first place.
 
Phurry said:
IMO, he's not a centre mid, he belongs on the right, hich itself is a classic example of Brentan playing someone out of position.
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Don't think it's got anything to do with Brentan, it's Milner who reckons he should be playing at CM. I'm with you though, I think he's quite mediocre in CM but can be very useful out wide.
 
Phurry said:
IMO, he's not a centre mid, he belongs on the right, hich itself is a classic example of Brentan playing someone out of position.
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Playing where he wants to play and why he signed the contract. Brendan has no choice unless he wants to upset his new signing.
 
RobinLFC said:
I'm going to my second ever Liverpool game against Soton next month, the first one being the 3-2 against City two years ago. I'm taking my girlfriend with me and have been raving about the atmosphere in Anfield but I'm worried it'll be more like a graveyard, wasn't a lot of noise yesterday either from what I could hear on the telly..

We need to sack Rodgers asap, even if Klopp doesn't want to join us.
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Nothing beats watching your team live at the match, whoever you support. When I still lived in Manchester I loved going to Old Trafford, when I get chance these days I go to places local to me, my hometown club just went top of League one and I have a blast watching them too with about 6000 people at the Pirelli stadium.

Never worry about atmosphere, cheer you arse off and dont worry about what anyone thinks.

On the thread topic, pool have some decent players, but there is just no plan. Benteke with no wingers to feed him, 4 players whose best position seems to be the exact same one (10), and three effective but plodders in midfield and little creativity.

Plus, and the most important, a defence who are told to play it out from the back, and who are, to quote G Neville, 'just not good on the ball'.

The manager has to take responsibility.
 
Varun said:
That's what. They don't have the squad quality to make such gambles. They needed to improve their 11 and did so. Taking gambles on talented kids over such players can only be done when you don't need them to deliver straightaway anyways.

I agree these players won't take them to the top but I also believe they have to go through this process anyways because unless you are a City or a Chelsea, you can't simply buy the top talent while not being there or thereabouts yourself.
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Yes but my point is regardless of whether or not it is popular in the short-term they HAVE to, otherwise they might as well accept that they are never going to win the league again. How do they expect that "safe" buys like Milner, Benteke, Ings, Bogdan, Clyne etc....will help them overthrow the likes of City and Chelsea?

If I were a Liverpool fan I would much rather Rodgers be gambling £20-£30m on top young talent from Europe/SA than the likes of Benteke because at least then if you get it right you have a world class talent on your hands rather than the same old same old

For me the best signings Utd have made in the last 6-7 years have been Shaw, Martial and Depay, purely because they are all young, hungry and talented.With a bit of guidance and luck each of these players COULD be the best in their position in the PL for years to come and that is what is required
 
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