Liverpool : General discussion

Oh yeah, for what it's worth I'm just posting stats to incite discussion. Football is subjective, I don't mind a long shot every now and then personally.

I actually think Memphis would have done really well under their style, especially if Klopp encourages this further.
 
Oh yeah, for what it's worth I'm just posting stats to incite discussion. Football is subjective, I don't mind a long shot every now and then personally.

I actually think Memphis would have done really well under their style, especially if Klopp encourages this further.
He's hardly started a game for a couple of months and is still our most prolific shooter by some distance. It's obvious the coach tells his team to recycle possession unless they have a clear sight at goal. I don't mind that. It's also a feature of Guardiola's teams.
I also think we don't have many players with good technique from distance. Memphis is probably our only threat and he's very inconsistent with it. You can also say Rooney but that's it.
 
Rodgers as a coach was never a problem for me. As a man-manager he was iffy and his transfer record was shocking (if we assume he did have control).

Klopp is never going to do much more than Rodgers (beyond a stylistic change) in terms of critical output (points/wins). Not until the squad is properly enhanced with higher standard players.

Having Jordan Henderson as your captain does tend to explain an awful lot about the lack of quality throughout the squad.
 
The transfer committee, has there been any credible reports on which players were bought by them and which were bought by Rodgers? It'll be kind of strange to be complaining about them if most of the flops were Rodgers' buys and not the committee's.
 
The transfer committee, has there been any credible reports on which players were bought by them and which were bought by Rodgers? It'll be kind of strange to be complaining about them if most of the flops were Rodgers' buys and not the committee's.
Rodgers on Sky said he had very little control over transfers. I'm inclined to believe him.
For example, Liverpol signed Balotelli within a few days of Rodgers telling the world he didn't want him. It was widely reported that Rodgers did not want Sahko.
I don't know how much will change under Klopp.
 
Liverpool has a rough road ahead. If they were one or two decent players away from competing for a fourth place spot that would be one thing, but they need an overhaul of the squad. Countinho is the only player on their roster who would be a regular for starter for United and right now that's not saying much. And who really believes they're keeping Countinho much longer?
 
Liverpool has a rough road ahead. If they were one or two decent players away from competing for a fourth place spot that would be one thing, but they need an overhaul of the squad. Countinho is the only player on their roster who would be a regular for starter for United and right now that's not saying much. And who really believes they're keeping Countinho much longer?

That is a bit over the top. They´ll be in the mix for top4 next season, if they can make 2-3 good signings. They need a CB, a midfield, who gives the team some structure and another attacking player (preferably a winger).

The problem for them is, that the top4 is wide open this season and they are unable to take advantage of the situation, while Tottenham, a direct rival, is eventually doing just that.
 
Weren't Pool fans happy that they had already played theit tougher away fixtures in the first half of the season? One point in two home games is not a good start any way you spin it. The way the league is these days, every away fixture is tough, so it is better to be left with easier home fixtures than easier away fixtures.
 
Weren't Pool fans happy that they had already played theit tougher away fixtures in the first half of the season? One point in two home games is not a good start any way you spin it. The way the league is these days, every away fixture is tough, so it is better to be left with easier home fixtures than easier away fixtures.

We were and it's not.
 
That is a bit over the top. They´ll be in the mix for top4 next season, if they can make 2-3 good signings. They need a CB, a midfield, who gives the team some structure and another attacking player (preferably a winger).

The problem for them is, that the top4 is wide open this season and they are unable to take advantage of the situation, while Tottenham, a direct rival, is eventually doing just that.

Who do we expect to be weaker going into next season? Probably Leicester City, fine. But definitely not Chelsea, not United (I hope!) and surely not Tottenham.

I don't doubt that Liverpool will be a stronger club next season but they've got a mountain to climb before they can think about a top four finish. We'd all bank on City and Arsenal to remain a top four club next season and, I would think, we'd all bank on two of Chelsea/United/Tottenham to be a top four club as well. Prospective players know that, making it all the more difficult for top players to be interested in going to Liverpool. To some extent we have the same problem but we're not in as dire a situation as Liverpool are with respect to the quality of the squad and our prospects for next season.

10-12 seasons ago Liverpool were right there on the shoulders of the top three clubs, in and out of top four contention. They had the Suarez season but before and after that they've been a top 8, not top 4, club.

A quick look at historical tables says this:

14/15 -- 6th place
13/14 -- 2nd place
12/13 -- 7th place
11/12 -- 8th place
10/11 -- 6th place
09/10 -- 7th place

Realistically, they're looking at a 6th place finish this season, at best. Ok, no news there. But it's really hard to go from a 6th place finish to a top 4 four finish with so much competition for those four place. How are they supposed to attract players that Chelsea, United, Tottenham are looking at as well? Their manager is their huge asset but that's not enough. To go from a top 6 club to a potential league winner in 2-3 seasons, Klopp's presumed goal, they need to go after young players with incredible promise. That's doable, but that means a difficult first full season under Klopp in 16/17 -- and it remains to be seen how much patience Liverpool fans will have with that.

Pocchetino's project with Spurs is far more attractive to prospective transfer targets than what Klopp is putting together for Liverpool. Even Everton now are competing for the same level of talent as Liverpool are. A real dilemma for the red scouse.
 
I agree that they have to play catch up. That said this season shows, that even the good teams aren´t that good. Arsenal and City are hardly setting the world on fire. When a club like Leicester can push for a top4 finish, a club like Liverpool could do it as well. At the moment they are probably just #6, but football is short-lived and one good summer can change a lot. A lot of people are already writing Klopp off, but I think that this is very premature. He is good at spotting talent and he is very good at building a team. Good managers don´t need forever to have an impact.
Just to clarify, I am not saying, that this is definitely going to happen. I just think that it is way too early to write of their next season.
 
I agree that they have to play catch up. That said this season shows, that even the good teams aren´t that good. Arsenal and City are hardly setting the world on fire. When a club like Leicester can push for a top4 finish, a club like Liverpool could do it as well. At the moment they are probably just #6, but football is short-lived and one good summer can change a lot. A lot of people are already writing Klopp off, but I think that this is very premature. He is good at spotting talent and he is very good at building a team. Good managers don´t need forever to have an impact.
Just to clarify, I am not saying, that this is definitely going to happen. I just think that it is way too early to write of their next season.
Did a direct of football not doing the buying for Dortmund?
 
Realistically, they're looking at a 6th place finish this season, at best. Ok, no news there. But it's really hard to go from a 6th place finish to a top 4 four finish with so much competition for those four place. How are they supposed to attract players that Chelsea, United, Tottenham are looking at as well? Their manager is their huge asset but that's not enough. To go from a top 6 club to a potential league winner in 2-3 seasons, Klopp's presumed goal, they need to go after young players with incredible promise. That's doable, but that means a difficult first full season under Klopp in 16/17 -- and it remains to be seen how much patience Liverpool fans will have with that.

Pocchetino's project with Spurs is far more attractive to prospective transfer targets than what Klopp is putting together for Liverpool. Even Everton now are competing for the same level of talent as Liverpool are. A real dilemma for the red scouse.
This is were you're wrong, it's actually not that hard to break into the top four, as Leicester is showing this season. Granted, the top teams suck, but you only need an in-form striker and two midfielders playing out of their skin to cement a place in the top four - if Leicester can do that after being relegation candidations number one last season, surely Liverpool can do it as well next season. It's really not that hard. Your stats prove it, really: we went from 7th to 2th just because an incredible striker and some confidence in the team. As you all like to remind us, one player can make the difference between top four or not. Yes, it's going to be harder for us to find that player but I guess we won't be looking at the top tier players in the market this Summer because we can't compete with the likes of City, Arsenal and yourselves. Our Suarez (and Sturridge & Coutinho) buy was very under the radar and that's what we need to do right now. It's really, really not that hard to break into the top four right now imo, you just need to be a bit lucky in the transfer market.

Also completely disagree that Spurs are far more attractive than Liverpool. The only advantage they have on us is being based in London.
 
Read on marca that they want Chicharito. Wonder if there's any true to that? There's no way Leverkusen are selling him in the winter transfer window, though.
 
Did a direct of football not doing the buying for Dortmund?

Michael Zorc is Dortmund´s director of football. Officially Klopp, Zorc and Watze made the decisions together (dunno if anyone else was involved). I wouldn´t give Zorc too much credit so. He was their DoF since ~1999. So he was already in the mix, when they went almost bankrupt and struggled in the midst of the naughties. He didn´t do a particularly good job at the time. The game changer for Dortmund was Klopp, not Zorc.
 
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This is were you're wrong, it's actually not that hard to break into the top four, as Leicester is showing this season. Granted, the top teams suck, but you only need an in-form striker and two midfielders playing out of their skin to cement a place in the top four - if Leicester can do that after being relegation candidations number one last season, surely Liverpool can do it as well next season. It's really not that hard. Your stats prove it, really: we went from 7th to 2th just because an incredible striker and some confidence in the team. As you all like to remind us, one player can make the difference between top four or not. Yes, it's going to be harder for us to find that player but I guess we won't be looking at the top tier players in the market this Summer because we can't compete with the likes of City, Arsenal and yourselves. Our Suarez (and Sturridge & Coutinho) buy was very under the radar and that's what we need to do right now. It's really, really not that hard to break into the top four right now imo, you just need to be a bit lucky in the transfer market.

Also completely disagree that Spurs are far more attractive than Liverpool. The only advantage they have on us is being based in London.

We'll see if Leicester can remain in the top four in May, but if they do that only makes the job for Liverpool breaking into the top four next season even that more challenging, as one can easily imagine Leicester building on that success. Right now we have four well established "top four" clubs, so much so that they don't even need to be named. If Leicester City join that conversation, along with Tottenham of course and maybe even West Ham, the competition for that fourth place spot next season will be insane.

As for Tottenham, the fact that they are based in London is a massive advantage over Liverpool. All other things being equal, who wouldn't want to live their lives in London than in Manchester or Liverpool? The posh living is very hard to resist. There will be some, like Aguero or Nasri, who will pass up a chance to play for a London club to cash in on City, but Liverpool aren't in a position to compete with City on player wages. And if United don't get their act together next season, we may find ourselves in the same position as Liverpool.

But I do completely agree with your statement that pulling off under the radar buys is exactly what LFC need to do. There's a next Suarez and Countinho out there somewhere and if you can haul them in before Chelsea or United can get their paws on them -- you'll probably need two, not just one -- first then the club can book passage to top four.
 
:wenger: Are you paid to be deluded?

Incorrect data and fortuitous selection of dates

You'll have played 16 games in this period vs 15 for City and 12 each for United and Arsenal. The difference vs City? The Exeter replay :lol:. The difference vs United and Arsneal? Exeter replay and 3 Carling Cup ties (United and Arsenal are knocked out). So essentially, you're whining about progressing further into the competition.

See how wonderfully the start and end dates have been selected to include the Carling Cup ties on 2nd of DEc and 26 of Jan. Dont count those games and you'll have played only 2 more than United and Arsenal. And even if count that, Liverpool has player ONE more game than City. That too due to its own doing. Bloody victims
I'll PM you the address of the Daily Telegraph so you can complain to them in person.
 
We'll see if Leicester can remain in the top four in May, but if they do that only makes the job for Liverpool breaking into the top four next season even that more challenging, as one can easily imagine Leicester building on that success. Right now we have four well established "top four" clubs, so much so that they don't even need to be named. If Leicester City join that conversation, along with Tottenham of course and maybe even West Ham, the competition for that fourth place spot next season will be insane.

As for Tottenham, the fact that they are based in London is a massive advantage over Liverpool. All other things being equal, who wouldn't want to live their lives in London than in Manchester or Liverpool? The posh living is very hard to resist. There will be some, like Aguero or Nasri, who will pass up a chance to play for a London club to cash in on City, but Liverpool aren't in a position to compete with City on player wages. And if United don't get their act together next season, we may find ourselves in the same position as Liverpool.

But I do completely agree with your statement that pulling off under the radar buys is exactly what LFC need to do. There's a next Suarez and Countinho out there somewhere and if you can haul them in before Chelsea or United can get their paws on them -- you'll probably need two, not just one -- first then the club can book passage to top four.
All the rest of your post makes absolute sense - however I do not at all see Leicester building on their success. Sadly their best will be cherry-picked and they will return to mid-table or lower, obscurity.
 
I agree that they have to play catch up. That said this season shows, that even the good teams aren´t that good. Arsenal and City are hardly setting the world on fire. When a club like Leicester can push for a top4 finish, a club like Liverpool could do it as well. At the moment they are probably just #6, but football is short-lived and one good summer can change a lot. A lot of people are already writing Klopp off, but I think that this is very premature. He is good at spotting talent and he is very good at building a team. Good managers don´t need forever to have an impact.
Just to clarify, I am not saying, that this is definitely going to happen. I just think that it is way too early to write of their next season.
It's amazing really isn't it ? The way some supporters thought we'd suddenly transform overnight and others are now writing him off before he's even bought a player to call his own (we'll exclude the one not even at the club). For me it's a case of forget the results and look at the positive impact he is having on the club and what he has done already at his previous clubs - none were overnight successes. We really need to give him more than a few months, especially when during this time he's been absolutely inundated with both games and injuries (a virtual 1st XI at one time), not the ideal scenario for a manager looking to transform the playing style at a new club.
 
It's amazing really isn't it ? The way some supporters thought we'd suddenly transform overnight and others are now writing him off before he's even bought a player to call his own (we'll exclude the one not even at the club). For me it's a case of forget the results and look at the positive impact he is having on the club and what he has done already at his previous clubs - none were overnight successes. We really need to give him more than a few months, especially when during this time he's been absolutely inundated with both games and injuries (a virtual 1st XI at one time), not the ideal scenario for a manager looking to transform the playing style at a new club.

Errrm, I think you'll find he's got Caulker in
 
The week Flopp arrived loads of Scousers announced they put money on them winning the league. Shame it's all gone a bit pear shaped.

As long as they didn't actually specify what year it'd be in, and whether it'd be under Klopp, they have more of a chance!
 
Ah a short term loaner as emergency cover - yeah I forgot that one. I don't think that is really what I meant when I said a 'player to call his own', do you ?

I'll have to see in the long run. As of now I suspect Klopp might see something in Caulker that he likes.
 
Errrm, I think you'll find he's got Caulker in
Caulker is loaned, not bought - and as explained above, because of emergency circumstances, not because Klopp fancies him or anything.
 
Caulker is loaned, not bought - and as explained above, because of emergency circumstances, not because Klopp fancies him or anything.

How do you respond to the rumours that Liverpool asked Klopp to come back with a "corker" of a signing and something got lost in translation along the way.
 
Ah a short term loaner as emergency cover - yeah I forgot that one. I don't think that is really what I meant when I said a 'player to call his own', do you ?

nd solving your keeper-problem..
 
Plus it looks like Caulker is brought in as a gamechanger.
 
Probably a better striker than Benteke in fairness.

:lol: No, you'll prob get better soon. How good, I don't know, but I don't believe klopps one-track-minded-football is the thing for the pl-title.
 
All the rest of your post makes absolute sense - however I do not at all see Leicester building on their success. Sadly their best will be cherry-picked and they will return to mid-table or lower, obscurity.

I think that's right, but apart from Mahrez who's going to get picked off? Probably not Vardy, who's probably not a good value for a massive transfer fee given his age. And Leicester just might become the next club of choice both for young prospects hungry for action and thus might pass United and Liverpool to ensure they get a real chance AND older players who still have something left in them.

No one can imagine Leicester City actually winning the league trophy, but IF they can hang on to a fourth or even fifth place finish this season they might just have something to build on for next season, with or without Mahrez.
 
It was obvious you weren't serious, but your implication clearly was.

Benteke isn't a crap player.

He's properly clueless. I haven't seen any evidence yet that he has the intelligence to play as a first choice striker at the level we should be aiming for.

His movement is shoddy, decision making terrible on the ball, those are two major elements that he'll really struggle to improve on at his age (I know he's not old but he's well on in terms of game time).

Technically he's very weird. Sometimes his touch is awful, other times he'll show great technique with his finishing. Not overly concerned about him technically to be honest, but he's just not sharp enough to use what he's got. Should go back to a team that is small enough to build around him.
 
He's properly clueless. I haven't seen any evidence yet that he has the intelligence to play as a first choice striker at the level we should be aiming for.

His movement is shoddy, decision making terrible on the ball, those are two major elements that he'll really struggle to improve on at his age (I know he's not old but he's well on in terms of game time).

Technically he's very weird. Sometimes his touch is awful, other times he'll show great technique with his finishing. Not overly concerned about him technically to be honest, but he's just not sharp enough to use what he's got. Should go back to a team that is small enough to build around him.
So you want rid of a £32.5m signing just like that?
 
So you want rid of a £32.5m signing just like that?

I wouldn't sell him this window if that's what you mean.

If he doesn't dramatically improve by the end o the season I don't see why we should keep him. Better to cut your losses in that scenario.

The price we paid for him last summer is pretty irrelevant. It's done, there's nothing we can do about that. The decison to sell him or keep him should be based on how much we could get for him in the summer, weighed up against how much we think he's worth to us as a back-up.

It's like Andy Carroll. We got destroyed with the original purchase but we made a great decison when we sold him, even if there was a huge loss on the deal.
 
How does Teixeira work? He, Firmino, Coutinho and Lallana are at their best in the same position. They need wingers and a striker.