It makes every club look crap in comparison. What should be worrying for Liverpool fans is that you don't need success stories like Atletico to make their club's transfer business look crap in comparison.
Liverpool : General discussion
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
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The amount of money they've wasted in recent years is staggering to be honest. €40 million for Andy Carroll, €23 million for Stewart Downing, €13 million for Raul Meireles, €20 million for Joe Allen, €13 million for Fabio Borini, €25 million for Coates, Enrique and Adam; €30 million for Mignolet, Aspas and Alberto; €25 million for Lovren, €35 million for Origi and Balotelli; €45 million for Moreno and Markovic; €19 million for Sakho. That's almost €300 million in total for not a lot of performance in return through the last 5 season. Would look much worse if not for the €140 million they fortunately received for Suárez and Sterling. Something's fundamentally wrong with their scouting system. Not that United haven't made mistakes mind, in hindsight we could have done a lot of things differently too. But the majority of Liverpool's signings looked ill advised even from the start.
Atletico have a great manager in charge. Every once in a while that happens. Mourinho at Inter/Porto, Fergie with Aberdeen, Hitzfeld with Dortmund, Rehhagel(Bremen, K'lautern, Greeece), Hiddink (PSV), Michels (Barca, Koln, Ajax), Happel (Hamburger, Feyenord).
Simeone is one of just several that achieved that. If Liverpool hired a winner as a manager and a leader like Simeone they might achieved that, however they hired crap like Evans, Souness, Houllier, Hodgson, and mediocre managers like Rodgers and Dalglish(ok not mediocre in terms of whole picture, but with the best days long behind him).
Appointing Klopp was a step in the right direction, however I don't think he's in Simeone's or the above league in terms of management.
Funnily enough, I think his replacement at Dortmund may be in that league of top managers.
I literally don't know what we're supposed to be arguing about.
Is it the semantic difference between an 'abysmal' transfer record or an 'unsuccessful' one?
It appears we broadly agree, you just took umbrage with me using the term abysmal instead of poor or unsuccessful.
We pretty much agree that Liverpool have made poor transfer decisions, whilst United's have been much better, albeit with more money to spend.
I'm not going to listen to any argument where Liverpool are portrayed as paupers though. I stand by my initial point that no club anywhere has wasted as much money, whether we're looking short term, medium term or long term.
TBH, I thought United paid £65 million for ADM. But that's not really relevant to the point I'm making, & it's one that you accept. Going through Brendan Rodgers signings is pretty pointless when he's not able to sign players of a similar calibre to the ones he's lost. You're basically saying that Liverpool Football Club needs top class players in order to compete at the top level again, but we're not in a position to buy them. Am I right ? Therefore we have to look at players who 'hopefully' might be able to take a step up & produce the goods at a higher level. Players that would not attract the United's & Chelsea's of this world. Given the choice, I'm pretty certain that Rodgers would have happily told Barca & City to keep their combined £125 million, & we'll keep Suarez & Sterling. But the fact is he wasn't given that choice. & what other club in the Premier League has lost the amount of top class talent that we have over the past 10 years or so ? - Owen - Alonso - Torres - Mascherano - Suarez - Sterling......All players who've engineered a move on to better things. Ronaldo aside United certainly don't lose too many players to other clubs. They too, like City, Chelsea, Barca, Real, & Bayern, generally add quality rather than lose it.
I've debated this point with other Liverpool supporters who simply feel that all our wrongs is down to Brendan Rodgers & his transfer dealings. Prior to Klopp arriving I've stated that I felt it would actually take a change of manager before people would realize that a change of manager isn't going to change anything. I'm delighted that we've got ourselves a world-class coach. He'll no doubt get the money to spend over the next few transfer windows. I'm just hoping & praying though that he doesn't go on to prove me right.
With all due respects, over the past 15 or 16 years our 2 respective clubs have embarked on totally different journeys to arrive at where we both are now. I've seen my club win pretty much all there is to win with the exception of the PL. Even then I've still seen us finish runners-up on 3 occasions. I don't think it's unfair to say that your record in comparison is quite modest. So it's hardly surprising that you're upbeat about the future for Spurs. But be totally honest here, all things considered, can you see your club - without the aid of a massive cash injection - ever breaking into the Premier League elite ? I'm more realistic than pessimistic. & I certainly don't share your opinion that Tottenham will be able to keep hold of any talent that starts to shine on a regular basis. The only thing that will keep an on-fire Harry Kane from going elsewhere (United Probably) next season is if he states his desire to stay at WHL. That sort of loyalty is very rare in the modern game.
With regards to the our stadium expansion, the main stand extension is coming along very well. I believe it should be ready for the start of next season & our capacity will be around 54,000. There's an extension planned on The Anfield Road end which will take the capacity to nearly 60,000. Not sure when that starts though. I've got my prawn sandwich order ready for next term.
Weren't we talking about the near future, starting from where both clubs are now? So I'm not sure why you hark back to the last 15 or 16 years ... but the fact that you have does tie in with what I said about Liverpool FC being still not fully adjusted to being seen as 2nd tier and thus falling between two stools. And you didn't respond to what I've said about player recruitment and "unearthing" gems.
You mention a massive cash injection, but that is precisely what Spurs will be getting in due course from our new stadium complex (note: not just a new football stadium). A lot of people still haven't understood the full scale of what's involved in this project and are thinking only in terms of extra income from ticket sales to Spurs matches and corporate boxes, even though this increase alone will be substantial. For such folk I'd recommend they take a look: http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/new-scheme/
So yes, considering that Spurs have finished top 4 twice in recent seasons and often 5th or thereabouts otherwise with our current income, I'm confident that after the new stadium complex is finished we'll become regular top 4 finishers.
As for Harry Kane, he'll still be at Spurs next season. I'm willing to bet on it.
Thanks for Liverpool stadium update.
Not exactly like we didn't recoup £44m from AdM anyway.
There's 2 billionaire clubs, Arsenal and Chelsea ahead of Spurs. Its going to take a whole lot more than a fancy stadium to get spurs a regular place in the top 4 of english football.
Shush... How dare you point out the obvious truth.
Fact of the matter is Spurs will be there or thereabouts fighting for top 4, and chances are every 10 years they will squeak in once, even twice. But ultimately without a long term monumental feck up from one of the current financial behemoths, and I'm talking Leeds-style implosion, they won't be able to solidify their top 4 status and go on to compete for top honours.
But this is Glaston, the one who believed that a skit by NBC promoting the PL featuring Spurs is the proof that Spurs's popularity is on the rise sharpish in the US
Spurs have already shown that they punch above their financial weight by finishing in the top 4 twice in recent times and finishing above Liverpool in 5 of the last 6 seasons. When all of the income from our new stadium complex comes on stream the income gap between us and Arsenal will be very significantly reduced. As I've said, many people are not fully aware of the true extent of the additional income streams connected to the new complex, income streams which go far beyond just those linked to Spurs football matches.
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... this is Glaston, the one who believed that a skit by NBC promoting the PL featuring Spurs is the proof that Spurs's popularity is on the rise sharpish in the US
Yet another poster who puts their invented words in my mouth. How dreary.
I can't be arsed to go dig out the exact posts, nor am I that pathetic, but enough people in this forums know about your Spurs delusion.
Funny that you would disappear for a long while last season. How's that Spurs finishing above United again working out for ya?
Whether you can be arsed or not is irrelevant. The simple fact is that I haven't said what you've claimed I've said. So like a fair few posters you've resorted to fabrication. Shame on you.
And now you follow it up with another tired old fabrication - apparently from the Goebbels school of propaganda: attack the messenger and not the message + repeat falsehoods often enough in the hope that repetition comes to be taken as truth.
As for the league table, United and Spurs, you might want to wait for the season to end before crowing.
Whatever floats your boat, buddy.
Thanks. Your boat has sunk without trace.
Finishing 4th twice was an excellent achievement, but I doubt very much that the Spurs fans would expect it? I mean, certainly in the current scheme of things (barring Chelsea's blip season so far). the obvious candidates to finish above you are City, United, Arsenal. Chelsea with Liverpool and yourselves fighting to get into that group. Things may change, but as it stands you're not there yet - which is no shame given the level of at which the 'top 4' have been operating on and off the field. Regular in the top 4 would be difficult to predict, but top 6 I'd say would be more realistic at this stage.Who the heck knows though, it's nice to dream
With Kane, maybe he will be at Spurs next season, maybe beyond, who knows? Chances are though, if he wants to achieve the ultimate prizes in club football, he will be tempted to leave for a club which offers him the best chance of doing that. I think we all know the clubs I'm talking about.
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Finishing 4th twice was an excellent achievement, but I doubt very much that the Spurs fans would expect it? I mean, certainly in the current scheme of things (barring Chelsea's blip season so far). the obvious candidates to finish above you are City, United, Arsenal. Chelsea with Liverpool and yourselves fighting to get into that group. Things may change, but as it stands you're not there yet - which is no shame given the level of at which the 'top 4' have been operating on and off the field. Regular in the top 4 would be difficult to predict, but top 6 I'd say would be more realistic at this stage.Who the heck knows though, it's nice to dream
With Kane, maybe he will be at Spurs next season, maybe beyond, who knows? Chances are though, if he wants to achieve the ultimate prizes in club football, he will be tempted to leave for a club which offers him the best chance of doing that. I think we all know the clubs I'm talking about.
You can say that but ...
2 years ago we were a disaster and last year was close enough.
Arsenal weren't hugely convincing in getting top 4 for years before that. Chelsea have slipped up quite a few times and were lucky to get back in the CL a couple of times.
Chelseas current season seems fairly similar to the di matteo, avb teams and every striker bar drogba has kind of struggled with them - they have their fair share of gremlins
Also how much money is abramovich willing to throw around these days?
Spurs look in a better position than most to take advantage of any slip ups and theres plenty of them in recent years.
I agree, but taking advantage of slip ups is not the same as being a regular in the top 4, which these days, basically means you're at least an outsider for the title (assuming there may be an outstanding favourite).
Abramovich I don't know, but I'd say it would be against their modus operandi to allow themselves to fall out of the PL elite and all the benefits of being in the CL. In short, I don't think he invested so much only now to let it slip. I think he'd leave the club altogether before we see that happening.
As for United, well, I think we're lucky enough that we have the resources to do whatever it takes to get back to where we were. I'm confident given our position in world football. and our drive to succeed, and the level of investment we're prepared to make, that we'll be successful in reestablishing ourselves at the sharp end....
Great result tonight. Certainly cheered up my mood over the last two weeks.
We've got 20 points where all the stupid, brainless points we've dropped at home have been compensated by unexpectedly beating tough away teams. So that's Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, City and Chelsea all done away. The top 6 if you like. I would have snapped your hand off for 20 points and Klopp as our manager.
26 Nov - Bordeaux (H) Europa
29 Nov - Swansea City (H)
2 Dec - Southampton (A) League Cup Quarter-final
6 Dec - Newcastle (A)
10 Dec - Sion (A) Europa
13 Dec - West Brom (H)
20 Dec - Watford (A)
26 Dec - Leicester City (H)
30 Dec - Sunderland (A)
2 Jan - West Ham (A)
In bold are our next league games until we meet Arsenal and Man Utd both at home mid January. Really need Henderson, Sturridge and Benteke back and not getting re-injured. Hopefully we can see some momentum during this run.
We've got 20 points where all the stupid, brainless points we've dropped at home have been compensated by unexpectedly beating tough away teams. So that's Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, City and Chelsea all done away. The top 6 if you like. I would have snapped your hand off for 20 points and Klopp as our manager.
26 Nov - Bordeaux (H) Europa
29 Nov - Swansea City (H)
2 Dec - Southampton (A) League Cup Quarter-final
6 Dec - Newcastle (A)
10 Dec - Sion (A) Europa
13 Dec - West Brom (H)
20 Dec - Watford (A)
26 Dec - Leicester City (H)
30 Dec - Sunderland (A)
2 Jan - West Ham (A)
In bold are our next league games until we meet Arsenal and Man Utd both at home mid January. Really need Henderson, Sturridge and Benteke back and not getting re-injured. Hopefully we can see some momentum during this run.
Great result for you and some lovely football on show, but don't be too confident yet. City when they come out and play away are piss poor in defense. We smashed them in a similar manner last year after all.
City was at home, if I'm not completely confused.
And for City, it is still a miracle to me how Demichelis can still play at a top team in the EPL after he was sorted out -- and shipped for free! -- by Bayern 5 years ago for being the weakest part of their defence. And rightly so. Apparently he's still valuble for a top team in the EPL -- if you are still wondering what the difference is between the top 3 European teams and the EPL is, here you go. Yaya Toure is another case, sorted out by Barca in 2008 -- that was when he still had legs.
For Liverpool: At times it almost looked like Klopp football. But only for very limited streches. Apart from the systemetical approach which obviously cannot be there yet, what is lacking most is actually a playmaker within the defence. The back four are technically and tactically very limited. My hunch is, that is the area where Kloppo will start his change.
I'm glad to see that Firmino is starting to show his potential that we have seen in the Bundesliga. He is a very good player, no world beater, but a very valuable player. And he's a very nice and modest guy.
I'm a Klopp fan, obviously. For his sake in the future I hope he will be allowed to bring his (!) players into his new club. If he is allowed to, I bet there will be not a single current EPL player among the newly hired ones. And that's gonna be only good, because the style of football will only go up.
The worst thing about our away form vs last year's top 4 is that it's absolutely perfect for United
We took 3 points of Chelsea & City, 1 of Arsenal, while losing to them... Maybe we'll get a thank you at the end of the season?But yeah, that fixture list is as kinda as can be, although that means nothing if we don't put in the performances. Hoping for at least 5 wins out of those, with West Ham being the scariest fixture there.
Why couldn't you have gone for Big Sam instead of Klopp? I think i am for the first time, genuinely worried about Liverpool now for the future. Klopp could finally be the one that lifts Liverpool out of anonymity and into genuine threats on all fronts in a season or 2.
I hate the fact that they got Klopp...absolutely fecking hate it. Uncomplicated philosophy too; didn't need a few years and gazillion games to implement.
feck you Liverpool!
feck you Liverpool!
And where has it gotten them exactly?
Surely Rodgers deserves some of the credit for today's victory? It's his squad, after all
Can he emulate Brendan Rodgers and almost win the league?
Yes, thank you very much. Now kindly proceed to lose to some random team like Crystal Palace again. Thank you.The worst thing about our away form vs last year's top 4 is that it's absolutely perfect for United
But yeah, that fixture list is as kinda as can be, although that means nothing if we don't put in the performances. Hoping for at least 5 wins out of those, with West Ham being the scariest fixture there.
Got me there. He really hasn't gotten them anywhere in the 5 games he has been in-charge. Giddy up Klopp!
Surely Rodgers deserves some of the credit for today's victory? It's his squad, after all
Brendan Rodgers: Forever be known as the great foundation layer.
“This game has vindicated Sterling’s decision to join City,” writes Paul Griffin. “On this showing, he would not get first team football at Liverpool.”
Some clips from a long Daniel Storey 365 article on yesterday's game (no he is not a Liverpool fan) :-
...... The Brazilian was exceptional against City. Klopp’s decision to leave Christian Benteke on the bench was a gamble, but Firmino excelled in a false nine role. He had more shots than any other player on the pitch, and double the number of shots on target. He also played a sublime pass for Coutinho’s goal and won possession eight times. It is this determination that caused Klopp to put faith in him.
As with Memphis Depay at Manchester United, perhaps it’s time to realise just how hard it can be for young players settling in new countries. Given time and support, both are plenty good enough to flourish. And that’s why the committee ‘came up with the figure of £29million’.
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The Brazilian was exceptional against City. Klopp’s decision to leave Christian Benteke on the bench was a gamble, but Firmino excelled in a false nine role. He had more shots than any other player on the pitch, and double the number of shots on target. He also played a sublime pass for Coutinho’s goal and won possession eight times. It is this determination that caused Klopp to put faith in him.
Dovetailing together, the two Brazilians look sublime, an obvious understanding already built up between them. Coutinho has eight league goals and assists in 999 minutes this season. Half of those have come in the 259 minutes when Firmino has also been on the field with him.
Firmino himself now has three goals and assists in the Premier League. His two assists have been for Coutinho goals, and his goal came from a Coutinho assist. It’s like a Brazilian symbiosis. Sambaosis?
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...... The Brazilian was exceptional against City. Klopp’s decision to leave Christian Benteke on the bench was a gamble, but Firmino excelled in a false nine role. He had more shots than any other player on the pitch, and double the number of shots on target. He also played a sublime pass for Coutinho’s goal and won possession eight times. It is this determination that caused Klopp to put faith in him.
As with Memphis Depay at Manchester United, perhaps it’s time to realise just how hard it can be for young players settling in new countries. Given time and support, both are plenty good enough to flourish. And that’s why the committee ‘came up with the figure of £29million’.
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The Brazilian was exceptional against City. Klopp’s decision to leave Christian Benteke on the bench was a gamble, but Firmino excelled in a false nine role. He had more shots than any other player on the pitch, and double the number of shots on target. He also played a sublime pass for Coutinho’s goal and won possession eight times. It is this determination that caused Klopp to put faith in him.
Dovetailing together, the two Brazilians look sublime, an obvious understanding already built up between them. Coutinho has eight league goals and assists in 999 minutes this season. Half of those have come in the 259 minutes when Firmino has also been on the field with him.
Firmino himself now has three goals and assists in the Premier League. His two assists have been for Coutinho goals, and his goal came from a Coutinho assist. It’s like a Brazilian symbiosis. Sambaosis?
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Typical. It surprises me that people become so obsessed with disliking any individual that they resort to making cheap digs even in thread which doesn't involve them.
Typical. It surprises me that people become so obsessed with disliking any individual that they resort to making cheap digs even in thread which doesn't involve them.
Not a dig, just an observation. Not happy that Liverpool got him. It annoys me. No one dislikes "individuals", the dislike is towards the quality of football. Though, it's hard for some to comprehend.
The reaction, as you might imagine, is cautiously optimistic.
love it, no more realistic sef pity. they're back
Very impressive performance. Although it will mean little if they fail to beat Swansea, which would be typical Liverpool. They seem to really struggle at Anfield lately.
Uum, no, we look much better then in those seasons.
Also, the only time we finished outside the top four in the past ten years was the CL winning one. Every other year we were comfortably in the top four. So again, no, we have not nearly fallen out of the top four numerous times.