Lucas is Liverpool´s only senior DM (ignoring Allen); of course he is one of the first names on the team sheet. There is just no alternative and that is why he is one of the most important players of the team despite not being very good. He is the player with most fouls per game in the league, which is a good sign at all.
Liverpool : General discussion
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He is also the player with by far the most tackles won per game in the league.
Taken in tandem, those are very good signs of a player getting in the way of a whole lot.
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yes. I still think, that there are at least 6 better DMs in the league and I also think that it would be fairly easy for Liverpool to buy a better player for the position. I also don´t think that he is particularly good at the ball so I am not too impressed by his ability to control games and start attacks.
Who are the six ones better?
I think his upturn in performances in this season has gone largely unnoticed, tbh. Mostly due to playing in a team as dull as dishwater before klopp came in. His distribution has also been at a higher level than seen in quite a while as well.
Schneiderling, Matic, Coquelin, Fernandinho, wanyama and Dier. I also don´t see him clearly ahead of the like of Kouyaté, McCarthy or Cabaye.
I am not convinced Fernandinho is significantly better. At least not as a holding midfielder. Dier and Coquelin I plain disagree with. Coquelin wouldn't get a game for any top club that needs their holding midfielder to actually participate in the buildup. He is the equivalent of sticking Carragher in midfield and praising his contribution to high heavens because no one else puts in a shift even though he does nothing when on the ball.
Schneiderlin, Matic, Wanyama are just better.
Dier has been really, really good as a DM so far this season - part of the reason why Spurs have the joint best defensive record so far. And unlike Lucas he chips in with a goal every now and then. He's also bigger, stronger, faster and more creative with his passing.
He's actually excellent as a holding player as he can play a hybrid between holding and box to box, he's versatile and in general very good.
Yeah Dier has been really good so far, and as you said he's got a lot over Lucas. He's only young too isn't he? Could be one to watch out for in the coming seasons.
As an allround midfielder he has more in his locker, I agree.
As a defensive midfielder, I think he is part of the reason City continue to have an aura of defensive frailty that sees them concede goals they shouldn't every so often though.
so a nailed on starter for City, who usually plays in a two men midfield next to Toure (and doing a good job in this role) isn´t better than Lucas, who wasn´t a nailed on starter for a worse team? That is just crazy talk. I agree, that Coquelin isn´t a worldbeater and "just" a destroyer. He is certainly a fairly limited player. Still in this specific role he is pretty good. Lets not pretend, that Lucas is a good deeplying playmaker. He is a workhorse who is willing to do a job. Dier is a fantastic talent. He has still everything to prove, but his prospect is really exciting.
I understand that you are excited about the current progress of your team. Rightfully. Still Lucas wouldn´t get a game for any top club regardless of his role in any of the top3 leagues.
Best tacklers in Europe:
This isn't an attack on any of those players, but I kinda thought a DM would be making more than a tackle every 15 minutes. I guess with a lot of the action going down the wings that number does make sense, though.
I don't think tackling should be the best talent for a DM. Top DMs close the gaps and reduce the requirement to tackle. DMs should be better judged based on interceptions as a better DM would anticipate the passes and cut it out before the pass is completed
Best tacklers in Europe:
Esteemed company there.
It is hard to judge a DM by such superficial stats. It makes no sense.
The only thing that is noticeable, that Rennes, Bologna, Toulouse and Granada are not top teams in their leagues; quite the opposite. Furthermore the only "top player" (and that is stretching the meaning of this term quite a bit) is Lars Bender, who plays for one of the most intense pressing outfits in the world. Not a surprise, that he is in there.
It is also notable that not a single top player from one of the top clubs is in this list and there are obvious reasons for that. You don´t need an all-action midfielder, who is flying into tackles in such a team.
The only thing that is noticeable, that Rennes, Bologna, Toulouse and Granada are not top teams in their leagues; quite the opposite. Furthermore the only "top player" (and that is stretching the meaning of this term quite a bit) is Lars Bender, who plays for one of the most intense pressing outfits in the world. Not a surprise, that he is in there.
It is also notable that not a single top player from one of the top clubs is in this list and there are obvious reasons for that. You don´t need an all-action midfielder, who is flying into tackles in such a team.
Pretty sure interceptions made are more important for a DM than tackles made.
Pretty sure you are over-thinking that one.
Both end up winning the ball.
Less interceptions are made than tackles on average though. Tackling is still the primary means of winning the ball.
If you go back a few years, it was the likes of Vidal, Bender, Scheiderlin and Behrami topping the list.
Both end up winning the ball, but interceptions are far less risky, for one, you won't commit a foul or potentially get a yellow/red card. Just because there's less of them made doesn't make them less important.
I'd personally prefer my DM to intercept the ball instead of having to tackle to win it.
In my mind, interceptions signal better tactical positioning than having to tackle.
Lucas is about behrami's level. Wie can agree on that.
I am not saying interceptions are less important. Just that the important metric is winning possession, less so than the means of it.
I agree that interceptions are less risky in the sense of fouling, but there is also the flipside of that - Miss it and you are not in a position to commit a foul when you might need to.
Lucas commits a lot of fouls, but many of them are useful ones. And for all his yellows, he is generally very good at managing his game when on a yellow - weekend incident notwithstanding.
Tell that to the other names on that list !
Look at those selective numbers. Morgan beats Lucas in overall score: 27.33 to 21.98, attk score: 5.34 to 5.27, defence score: 8.86 to 6.82, interceptions: 3.01 to 2.25, possession score: 13.13 to 9.89, etc. He also has a higher pass completion than Lucas. I thought Lucas played very well against Chelsea and that he's a good player, but let's not pretend he's better than Schneiderlin.You thought that was a second yellow? It was a simple foul in the middle of the pitch and every Chelsea player was trying to exaggerate it, never a yellow card in my book. The perception that every foul after a first yellow is worthy of a second one is just silly.
Yeah, making interceptions and tackles, and making blocks... but it's easy to do those things when you're team is complete shit at keeping the ball and spend a shitload of their time defending.
The commentators were saying some stuff similar to this - about how in order to get a second yellow it should be a fairly bad foul. I find that nonsensical. A yellow should be a yellow, regardless of whether the player already has one.
Having said that, Chelsea's normal routine of trying to get opponents sent off is utterly pathetic and there is no doubt they exaggerated the incident. I have to say, that game was probably the first time I have enjoyed watching Liverpool win in ages, I loathe Chelsea so much now.
Ramires was basically horizontal before there was any contact anyway, he jumped into Lucas as much as Lucas "fouled" him.
Not a yellow card offence regardless of whether he was already booked.
Not a yellow card offence regardless of whether he was already booked.
I think McCarthy is slightly better. Barry has dropped a level physically and McCarthy has been impressive in
keeping that part of the pitch together.
Maybe a shout for Ki as well, though he doesn't always start for Monk for some reason, but he's a very good overall deep CM, if not really a lone holding type.
I think I've seen them given before and Lucas shouldn't be giving the ref a decision to make.
Generally, he's very safe to keep playing on a yellow though.
Well nobody here has said he is or anything even close to that. The stats are just to show that he isn't the donkey most think he is. However it should also be noted that all stats can be misleading .. for example since United spend so much time passing it around at the back and in midfield (a major complaint from their fans this season) then possession score and pass completion are naturally going to be high for Schneiderlin. But yes of course he's still a much better player and no-one is trying to say otherwise.
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Check the possession stats. That simply isn't the case no matter how good it sounds in your brain.
For the Liverpool fans, is there anything about Klopp that you really like? What are some of the changes which you think have been good? Is there anything you dont like or youd just rather not say? 
For the Liverpool fans, is there anything about Klopp that you really like? What are some of the changes which you think have been good? Is there anything you dont like or youd just rather not say?
That we're already seeing his faster style of play coming through. We're going at 100% from the get-go, and while I accept it will take time and a few signings for everything to properly click, things are looking good so far. I also like having a manager who gives interviews worth watching, instead of a certain ex-manager to which everything was outstanding.
Oh, and he's awesome on the touchline
Where the Feck is Sturridge?
Got injured during the last international break, supposedly 'a knock', yet hasn't been seen since.
Got injured during the last international break, supposedly 'a knock', yet hasn't been seen since.