Lambert is not superfluous in any way. If we hadn't signed him, we'd need another backup striker anyway. He was never going to be more than that.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
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Do you not have any young players to promote like we have done with Wilson?
It wasn't a criticism of the salary per se. it was to counter the assertion that Falcao/Di Maria came to United for the club and not the salaries. Hence quoting Falcao's.
Personally I think the whole European footballing world has gone mad as far as salaries are concerned and wish there was some type of US Football/Basketball type ceilings. It's insane that clubs are paying 50-80% or higher (QPR last season) and gambling with their existence simply to pay these over-paid prima-donnas. Having run three of my own successful businesses over the past 30 years I've never had a salary payout higher than 30-35% of gross and although I appreciate football is different, as the players are the product, 60-80%+ of gross is still way too much. Rant over.
We had Peterson who I thought was worth a gamble as he looked very decent in pre-season, However we've just sold him. Otherwise whilst our Youth/Reserves look extremely strong in some areas, striking is not one of them.
Who is the last homegrown one that was brought through? It seems to be something that has really dried up lately
You'll find very few Utd fans who'll argue against that.
We are the second biggest club in the world though, it definitely plays a part.
I ask again where do you have Falcao's salary from? Or is it just the tabloids? People seem to be using wages as a stick to beat United with lately yet they fail to mention how we have freed up a hell of a lot of money by letting Vidic, Evra, Giggs and Ferdinand go off our books in the summer. I bet, even with Falcao, we still have money to spend on wages if needs be given our outgoings.
Salaries have been mental since Yaya signed for City in my opinion. That is several years ago now.
United still have mega pulling power as a club, up there with the likes of Madrid and Barca, as does LvG who everyone seems very keen to work with.
Clubs at the level of the top 7-8 in the PL, and at the top of the other Euro leagues, simply can not take the risk or do not have the time or are not willing to take the chance, on strikers that haven't at least shown they have something substantial in their locker and are competitive at this level. Probably Fowler was the last home-grown to really hit the big-time, at United who was the last ?
Purely home grown and not bought from another club at young age? Well we have Evans, Cleverley, Welbeck currently. Sadly Welbeck has just left and Cleverley looks to follow but James Wilson looks rather talented from what I have seen and Tyler Blackett has had some game time along with Lingard.
Don't think we do too badly with our young players in fairness.
Lambert was always bought to have him as an option from the bench and because he would be happy to be so. Not a spectacular signing by any stretch of the imagination but to pay 4million for a player who got double figures in both goals and assists the previous season isn't too bad at all.
Bayern actually tried to block the sale of Can as they had a buy back clause, though i'd agree your assertion of him so far.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news...ve-can-set-blocked-bayern-114819850--sow.html
The Origi signing was lined up before the world cup. The main reason we got him signed was because of the loan back option which Lille insisted upon.
Balotelli was only a problem with Mourinho and Mancini but I think that was more down to personality clashes as well as moments of poor attitude from him, overrated?, probably, which is why we weren't interested when he was being quoted at over 25 million but for 16 million I think the risk is one worth taking if the people at the club feel we have the right environment for him to fulfill his potential as hes still only 24. probably his last chance to shine at a big club.
I think your impressions of the other signings are pretty accurate (bar Manquillo wo I think has been quite solid defensivley) but as our defence is new players still becoming accustomed with each other, with some added language barriers to overcome I think its expected to have some 'teething issues' hopefully our defense will become more of a cohesive unit as the season progresses. The injuries to Skrtel and Glen Johnson will ironically work to our benefit I feel.
One things for sure it's gonna be very interesting season at the top half of the table, I think Arsenal may be the ones to miss out on top 4 this year.
Not up front. Plenty who could break into the side like Ibe, Wisdom, Rossiter, McLauglin, Teixeira but they aren't strikers.
Up front, there's Yesil, who looks like he won't make it at all and Jerome Sinclair - who was actually our youngest ever debutant at 16 (now 18). But he looks to have stalled in his development.
At any rate, none who could offer what Lambert does.
Flannagan, Sterling. Ibe looks to be the next one. Rossiter looks destined to make it as well.
Wisdom will depend on whether there will be a space for him and how well he does on loan. I think McLaughlin has a good chance. But they are more in the category of Robinson and Flannagan - They'll need to find something extra to make it here. Flannagan did, though he's the least talented on the bunch.
Ibe and Rossiter are closer to the Sterling category though. Exceptional talents who ought to be comfortable at the premiership level at the very least. If they remain focused, they'll play for England one day.
Can't remember the last time we had three such good ones coming through, tbh. They are streets ahead of their peers.
Before this generation, it was only really Kelly in recent years who had the required level. And he's been destroyed by injuries.
Actually I was referring to Strikers as we have quite a few youngsters that have got games but out of the current squad only Gerrard, Flanagan and, at a stretch Suso & Sterling, who came through the Youth system.
I'd add Teixeira, Canos and maybe Wilson to Ibe and Rossiter (who should be standing in for Gerrard already in some low key games, e.g. League Cup). I strongly doubt Wisdom or McLaughlin will make it and Robinson has just been sold to QPR for £1m).
How does offering general throw-away comments about each player constitute as a "deeper look"? You've essentially painted every signing in a negative light. Absurd analysis and factually inaccurate in places.
@B20 @Rafateria Ibe, Suso and Sterling are not homegrown surely as you bought them from elsewhere? Otherwise we could include Jones, Januzaj, Rafael etc.
@PickledRed easy to do though isn't it? Just as its easy to harp on about Di Maria and Falcao not being what United need and are making too much money.
I'd personally take those two above any of your signings and we've only spent 30m more than you. Honest opinion that.
I'd personally take those two above any of your signings and we've only spent 30m more than you. Honest opinion that.
It's mighty easy to sit on the mountain of moral high ground harping on about fees and wages when your clubs feckin skint.
Ibe & Suso spent a substantial amount of time in the Youth/Reserves (though I don't know the specific time-frame for what constitutes 'home-grown') and Sterling debuted in our Youth team before quickly being promoted.
Yep them net spend figures look like that when your buying your best players and not selling them instead.
Edit 25m for Lallana
that's Moyes territory.
Edit 25m for Lallana
that's Moyes territory.Is Lallana really that bad? Didn't look it when playing for Southampton. Certainly twice the player Fellaini was under Moyes.
Not sure its the same territory.
Not sure its the same territory.
What do you mean by homegrown, as I am assuming it's not the UEFA definition. Is Cleverley homegrown?
I tend to think of them as being so, if they make their senior debut with us after coming through a few youth ranks. Sterling and Ibe have been with us since they were 15. I suppose you could say that became talents somewhere else.
Flanagan would be it then, preceded by Kelly. Rossiter the next.
I meant as having Liverpool as their sole club, not snapping them up from others. I think it is something Liverpool have struggled with personally since Owen, Carragher and Gerrard.
I think it is about time United had a good splurge and it was necessary following Vidic, Evra, Giggs and Ferdinand leaving (that's not to mention now Welbeck, Hernandez and Kagawa have gone also)
United should have been picking up the odd big name each window but instead over the past few years we have only seen RvP and Berbatov come in as mega signings and even RvP cost less than Lallana. It is a big outlay but perhaps not so much when you look at the spending over the past few years for top clubs and the 80 odd million received for Ronaldo.
Never a £25m pound player for me, and I think you've paid quite a heavy 'English tax'.
By no means a bad player, but far better ones have gone for less.
(Edit: And I would put Shaw in that bracket as well)
That's a disigenuous figure that totally ignores the reality of football finances. Wages are a huge part of any purchase and I would bet that the big signings for United blow Liverpool's signings out of the water. That £30m figure bears no relation to the real costs of these deals.
You ignore the fact United have a massive pot a wages to play with following the number of long serving players that departed during the summer.
I don't know what figures Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand and Giggs were on but I would imagine they were amongst the clubs top earners. With all those off the books we have a big pot of money for wages to play with, along with our season budget, so really the wages mean nothing to us at this stage as the club is still sustainable and making more money than ever.
The thing I enjoy from what I read in this thread is the Liverpool fans rather correct assertion that it is more important to play as a team than have a collection of great individuals. They are right that Rodgers has done a great job in making Liverpool better than the sum of their parts and while their players may not be stars in their own right they function well. The bit I find funny is that they then accuse us of not strengthening in weak areas before having the benefit of seeing these 'lesser' players function together.
Lallana was definitely overpriced. I think everyone knows that.
He's a player the manager really wanted though. Evidenced by our early interest and eagerness to pay what it takes. Guess we'll have to wait and see how well he fits in.
He's a player the manager really wanted though. Evidenced by our early interest and eagerness to pay what it takes. Guess we'll have to wait and see how well he fits in.
Well if you follow that line of argument (money saved / earned) then Liverpool are not £30m behind United this summer as they've sold about £80m of assets so have a much smaller net spend to United's. Again, the £30m figure to compare the two clubs' spending is nonsense.
It's the only correct way to measure spending on transfers. Where the money comes from is irrelevant.
Net or just total spend?
I don't get why all of a sudden United's finances concern Liverpool fans?
The club is making very big money currently and also had big money in wages free to use. I don't like to sound arrogant but perhaps you don't understand just how much the club makes currently compared to Liverpool. It is a commercial juggernaut.
Falcao and Di Maria won't bankrupt the club or see us relegated to the lower echelons of English football I am sorry to tell you. They will both probably pay their own wages in shirt sales alone!
This thread really went to shit over the past few days, so much tribalism.
Its just a wind-up or they are in denial of the fact that our financial position is significantly better than any other club. The whole argument has completley shifted. Earlier in the window, it was like, "No player would want to come with lack of CL". We have signed 5 players from CL clubs and now it has changed to "You are desperate and overpaying", when the reality is Di maria and Falcao would have walked into any team in the league.
Total spend. Whether you fund the transfers by selling a player for a good fee or by other means makes no difference. You're still spending the clubs money.
But net provides a context to how much is being spent. The reason I brought this up is because a post above talked about Liverpool spending just £30m less than United - but really that's a flasehood based on net spend.
Anyway, it's a bit dry as a topic so I will leave it there.
It doesn't provide any context at all. You spend what you spend. Whether it's financed by selling a player or by an official paper clip partner matters not.
But literally in the same breath our 'lesser' players like Lallana, Can, Lambert and Markovich get laughed off as a wasted summer and one of the primary reasons why Man Utd can/may overcome us for 4th. Real funny innit?
The key difference here is Rodgers has been around doing the 'great job in making Liverpool better than the sum' whereas LvG is just starting putting his parts together. You don't have the time to be putting the parts together, you've already dropped points against Sunderland, Swansea and Burnley. Teams that City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool will surely get nearly maximum points from.