My take on it is that he said "we tried for Falcao" before he said "not us" so obviously he's not denying the club tried to get him. I don't know who 'us' it but it's obviously not the club seeing as he then explains who he wanted.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Liverpool needed depth and that's what they've done this summer. You'd think maybe they could have gone and tried to get one real top talent though, in a summer when they have the confirmed attraction of CL football to offer. It is a risk not doing so because they could not be in that position next summer.
"Not us" in response to my post
The Moyes effect
@BarneyLFC yea who the feck needs one of the Worlds best no9's on their books as backup when you can get Rickie Lambert for 20 pound and a couple of saucy dvd's.
"Not us" was the answer.
Then the "We tried for Falcao" comment came, hence denying and then not denying it instantly.
That's how I saw in real time, btw your disguise is worse than a scouse defence of racism.
What??
Erm, no, the "We tried for Falcao" comment was before the "not us" one, the forum doesn't lie. Just cause you saw the other first doesn't make it so.
Effects the claim that "not us" wanted one of the Worlds best no 9's how exactly ?
The order is inconsequential as long as the contradiction exists.
The bolded part? What were you saying there? My disguise?
I'm not sure what's so difficult to comprehend here, he never said the club didn't want Falcao, he said the opposite. Just drop it.
The name change ? You do know it's changed right ?
Yeah, it wasn't meant to be a disguise. I mean, it's pretty obvious.
So how did the dippers handle Sturridge and Ballonutelli against Spurs?
Falcaoing hell, that's some disguise you have there.
Yea, best not fall through now.
There's literally not one player you've signed that actually addresses your main issues (a top quality CB and DM), yet you've managed to win the Global Transfer Cup. That's not a shocker it's fecking criminal.
We at least added some quality to them regardless, we have Di Maria, Herrera and Blind (I don't rate him very much, but I am willing to give the lad a chance) brought in who will as a group improve our CM, we might now have as much quality in defence as we should do, but we did try and address it, we have promoted Blackett who looks a talent and have bought Rojo (although he hasn't played yet, I have confidence a world cup runner up can do well here, he has all the attributes). Not to mention that we have Falcao who although I was reserved, if he bangs in the goals and wins us points, we'll stand in good stead to improve again in January. Your team still looks weak defensively and we'll see if your front three of Sterling, Sturridge and ballotelli can replace Suarez. Baloteli is wildly inconsistent and won't win you points on his own 75% of the time.
Oh dear, yep it was all about pulling power. I'll tell you what's staggering .... paying Falcao £347k a week just so he can net £175k a week !
Mitch.
TBH (can I blank GasManc from this reply ?) I think both clubs have added quality, United's more mature and proven at the top level in the cases of DiM and Radamel FalCinao (ha ha), Liverpool's rather more errr enigmatic (Mario - but he brings qualities we lacked last season; aerial power and a strong physical presence in the box, whilst retaining some of Suarez's attributes such as the ability to hold-up the ball and to do the unexpected) but also in Lallana & Lovren (both proven & highly rated PL players), we have both added potential in Rojo, Shaw, Herrera, Markovic, Manquillo, Moreno (though after Spurs maybe we can move him out of the 'potential' category) & Emre Can and since Liverpool's batch have had more outings I can say all are looking damn good, and United and Liverpool have both added players that maybe a year from now will not have much input into the team (Blind, who I believe LvG bought because he couldn't get any of his primary targets this window, and Lambert, for different reasons), but at the very least are good for squad depth.
Finally, as should be blindingly obvious over the past 18 months, it's all about the team, I've no doubt at all that LvG can move United into contending for Top 4 this season and I've also no doubt at all that Liverpool will be also be right there at the end of the season. I have to say that I have revised my original predictions once it was known Suarez was leaving, (City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, United) following this transfer window to : City (who I think have more strength in depth than CFC which will tell over the course of the season), Chelsea, Liverpool, United, Arsenal (who's transfer window and performances in the opening matches I've been singularly unimpressed by, Sanchez aside). Suffice to say this is going to be a fascinating season .... and I just hate International breaks !
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Gabriele Marcotti @Marcotti 34s
Know this confuses some people. Falcao not subject to income tax in Monaco. Must pay tax at MU. Imagine Monaco top up his MU wages.
If we are paying him 175k per week and less than 10 mil for a loan deal, its brilliant business. Replacing Chicharito and Welbeck with Falcao and the emerging Wilson is great tbh.
Not too sure about the inner details of this loan deal though. However, I expect Marcotti must know something about it. Any french posters care to enlighten us on Monaco's tax-free details and its impact on this particular deal?
@kouroux Think I read you post something about French football. Apologies if I made a mistake.
Monaco since not truly in France, their players don't pay the same taxes as other french footballers do. I really have no knowledge of the tax system in Monaco but I won't for sure that even if players pay something, it's a lot less expensive than in France. Moreover, I think any taxes Falcao would have to pay, are essentially being taken care of his club Monaco. Just like PSG does with Zlatan for instance (they give him a net salary that cannot be used as tax income by the government). It's just a conjecture really, I'm certain of nothing.
Rojo is an Argentinian international, he's just played a WC final. Blind had a very good WC also, is of good stock, knows the system Van Gaal plays and can play a few positions including DM, we've also signed a LB who was the best of the lot at the club you dismantled this summer and two midfielders in Di Maria and Herrera so that's our issues covered for now, the main one now being player fitness and learning a new playing style. Factor in a World class no9 and that's quite the cherry on top.
All those factors and 2 of the Worlds best players in and we still only just beat Liverpool to the transfer cup, despite you losing a World class player and replacing him with WC non starters and a 2nd hand City reject with mental health issues.
No you didn't block me from that reply above
but yea you have added a lot of "potential" haven't you, 117m worth.Just to be sensible for a minute though, both clubs have gone through a necessary evil this window, United attempting to offload dross and recompile the squad with quality over quantity and players suited to a particular style, our lack of games being perfect opportunity for us to do what we've done.
Liverpool on the other hand needed numbers to help cope with the extra games and have added as many as required within a certain budget, perhaps could have added that one star studded 'sane' player to cover the loss of Suarez though and Falcao coupled with the way the deal is structured would have been a near perfect a signing for you.
Expecting a very interesting season ahead and given this window I do expect United to be right in the mix for top four, a lot will depend of course on how quickly we can get players back and integrated into this system and eventually find some consistency and of course a January transfer window where Vidal and Strootman could be fit and available for a cheeky bid.
Will say though that Moyes last season orchestrated your near perfect vision of the "demise of Manchester United" after SAF's retirement didn't he?
It's not quite going perfectly to plan these days though is it
This "he played in a world cup final" or "he's a title winner" is just nonsense.
Cleverley is a title winner. Djimi Traore won the CL final.
Demichelis also played with Rojo in the same world cup final. Your man Kleberson also played in a world cup final. As has the likes of Dirk Kuyt, Heitinga, Capdevila and Mathijsen.
Cleverley is a title winner. Djimi Traore won the CL final.
Demichelis also played with Rojo in the same world cup final. Your man Kleberson also played in a world cup final. As has the likes of Dirk Kuyt, Heitinga, Capdevila and Mathijsen.
It's no sure judge of quality no, but aside from a few names a lot of those players mentioned have had decent careers.
It's nonsense in the same category of United haven't addressed their major issues despite signing 2 midfielders and 3 defenders, one being a combination of the two.
It's nonsense in the same category of United haven't addressed their major issues despite signing 2 midfielders and 3 defenders, one being a combination of the two.
There seems to be a 'logic' taking place here that because United have bought some good players Liverpool are now not as good.
Liverpool will continue to play exciting, attacking football with high press and impressive teamwork. United may start to play with greater cohesion but that's got no bearing on Liverpool's own team.
Making a list of Liverpool's summer signings and laughing about it all misses the fundamental reason why Liverpool were quality last season - they outplayed teams because they were a TEAM. Less fancied players started to excel in a system. Liverpool had a very clear identity. This is going to continue.
United may start to develop a team ethic but buying lots of good players is secondary to the creation of a cohesive unit. Of course, LvG knows this.
The black and white analysis taking place here is a continuation of last season's total underestimation of how good Liverpool are. You know, it is possible that Liverpool will remain a quality outfit even if United improve markedly. In any event, it's not Liverpool who are playing catch-up.
Liverpool will continue to play exciting, attacking football with high press and impressive teamwork. United may start to play with greater cohesion but that's got no bearing on Liverpool's own team.
Making a list of Liverpool's summer signings and laughing about it all misses the fundamental reason why Liverpool were quality last season - they outplayed teams because they were a TEAM. Less fancied players started to excel in a system. Liverpool had a very clear identity. This is going to continue.
United may start to develop a team ethic but buying lots of good players is secondary to the creation of a cohesive unit. Of course, LvG knows this.
The black and white analysis taking place here is a continuation of last season's total underestimation of how good Liverpool are. You know, it is possible that Liverpool will remain a quality outfit even if United improve markedly. In any event, it's not Liverpool who are playing catch-up.
Well addressing the major issues can only be considered 'solved' if the incoming players are an improvement on those there already. Rojo is a CB come LB who isn't an improvement on even an ageing Evra, but of course wasn't intended to be as he is there to provide backup to Shaw. And as a CB is he an improvement on the Evans-Jones partnership ? It's more than likely he'll be back-up there too, so in terms of a 1st team improvement he's irrelevant, he's a squad strengthener. Blind is another Jack-of-all-Trades. Yes he can play a number of positions and I'd imagine him starting as your DM over Carrick, but that doesn't mean he's better than Carrick, he's just as slow around the pitch but will have more stamina of course.
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You're right about that, the important aspect would be to look at whether they were good in the competition and instrumental to their side getting where they did. I think both Rojo and Blind had good WCs and were important to their teams, not best players by any means but still important.
Of course, it's 7 matches and doesn't mean much. Most Utd fans know what to expect from these signings, from the info we've managed to gather from fans of other teams and so on:
- Rojo can be excellent, but has certain concentration issues and apparently discipline problems; I think it was Sly that suggested that under good guidance he could develop very well;
- Blind, no one is going to pretend we've made a top notch signing, but it's typically a signing that Liverpool fans would defend as improving the squad if you'd made it. He seems like a dependable, intelligent player capable of playing different positions and understanding what's required of him. It's an improvement to have him for both our defence and midfield options.
I think Liverpool have been overall quite good in the transfer windown despite a weird approach at times, there's a few signings that really weren't necessary imo, but you're definitely relying on the players to click in the system as most are, and I doubt you'd disagree, 'second rate' players or players with potential. It's definitely down to how you click as a unit.
Which of course could be said of Utd (and any team) except there's now enough individual quality to carry us through harder times I think. And if it does click, it's a potentially fearsome team. I don't quite buy the argument by oppo fans that we've only bought what we didn't need and haven't addressed our issues, maybe an extra CM would have helped us but that's about it. We have personnel at the back and in attacking positions, it's going to be down to coaching to see how it works out. And while Falcao seems unnecessary, we offloaded two attackers and RvP isn't exactly young anymore and hasn't shown his top form for ages now. So it's not as crazy as it sounds, imo.
How do you know all this on Rojo? You've watched him a lot with Sporting?
I liked your post above but am interested in which players we bought fall into that category ? At a guess I'd hazard Can, Origi and Markovic. To which I'd say we are following the FSG guidelines of buying highly rated potential that could also be beneficial in the short term as squad members. Markovic maybe a lot more than that. Can maybe is being groomed to replace Gerrard.
No I haven't. Like pretty much everyone else here, just at the World Cup where he just seemed a solid FB. However this is the general opinion of those that have .. including your Portuguese contingent here on RedCafe and fan quotes I saw from Sporting forums.
We've 4 CB's at the club, 3 of them have performed very well at PL level and one who hasn't played yet. We've a PL proven LB and as you say backup to that position from more than one area of the squad.
We've also addressed (not fully maybe) our midfield issue as a combination of Herrera and Di Maria wide of the tip has the makings of a very dynamic central area.
Yes it would have been fantastic to have signed a monster like Vidal to play at the base but let's not be to greedy, we've more than enough to compete at PL level and Blind much more than his skill set on the ball has vast knowledge of VG's system and is extremely intelligent and can hopefully speed our players learning of the setup, more than the sum of his parts you would say.
So where are all these wage rumours coming from? I have heard he has actually took a pay cut to play for United so until we hear something concrete I will be taking all these Rooney esq tabloid wages with a pinch of salt. Obviously he is going to be on good money. He is one of, if not thee best CF in the world. They don't come cheap.
What a lot of people don't realise is the money isn't a problem to United.
Anyway, enjoy watching Rickie Lambert!
United fans are excited at getting to see Falcao and Di Maria playing week in week out. These are players that neutrals will pay to go and see, not just United fans. Massive signings. No matter how many fans Liverpool fans (and others) try telling us we are paying too much wages and they are players we don't need, it won't matter. You know that feeling you all got seeing Suarez and we had with Ronaldo? Well it's back at OT and that's the buzz that I circling around the place.
I think Lambert for example was a completely unnecessary signing, even more so with the signing of Balotelli. Origi seems a weird one and I don't really rate him. I wouldn't put Can in the same category as I really haven't seen enough of him to assess his overall level, and you needed personnel in midfield, so it might turn out to be a good signing, I don't know.
Well even going just on his WC, I find it weird to decide he wouldn't be an improvement on Evra (he is, definitely) and overall it's pretty bizarre to draw such definitive conclusions on him and Blind. They're very much 'up in the air' as to whether or not they're going to be good signings for us, I doubt anyone knows enough about them to make final judgments, saying Rojo's signing is irrelevent and will only be a squad strengthener, and your conclusions on Blind. I could understand if it were players you'd seen 20-30 times, but I doubt you have and it's difficult at the moment to really know how they'll pan out.
He's just on the wum mate, has been for a while, I'm just sending it back and catching a few along the way.
If your club had the monetary wealth of ours, you might actually be able to keep players like Suarez.
Or sign some great players.
I'd say that not only was Lambert a necessary signing but incredible value for money too (£4m). Lambert's value is that he allows us to play slightly differently if we are having difficulty breaking a team down, in that he plays slightly withdrawn but is excellent at both holding up the ball and bringing others into play. If you look at our striking options even now : Sturridge, Balotelli, Lambert & Borini then it becomes pretty clear we needed a striker. Maybe Ings would have been another option but Lambert is probably more than happy to sit on the bench and take the few chances that will come his way over the course of the season.
I think you know Suarez was about moving to his wife's family's city as much as anything else.
So it had nothing to do with the fact that Barca can trump you in wages and club stature?
I'm sure he got an increase (he was on £200k here so not exactly a pittance) and it is clear to everyone that most South Americans consider Real Madrid / Barca to be the pinnacle, hardly surprising when considering the exposure and the similarity in cultures and language and most certainly nothing to be embarrassed about either. Do Liverpool have anything like that pulling power ? Once upon a long time ago perhaps, not today.
Liverpool fans seem very interested to comment on United's business so lets have at deeper look at theirs....
Rickie Lambert - Liverpool's new number 9. Aged 32 with no real top level experience costing £4m. With Balotelli coming in don't have a clue why he was signed and not sure he offers enough at a top level club.
Adam Lallana - Looks a good player but expensive at £25m considering he again has no top level experience bar the PL and is not a youngster anymore given he is 25. United paid a similar fee for Shaw who is aged 18. Typical English player premium.
Emre Can - Young enough to develop further but let go by Bayern Munich on the cheap. His development stalled somewhat so will be interesting to see what Rodgers can do with him and if he gets game time. £10m.
Dejan Lovren - Liverpool needed a CB just like United so spent £20m on this man who has looked pretty average so far this season. Big money for a CB all things considered and Rodgers will hope he starts to settle soon.
Divock Origi - A £10m buy purely off the back of a couple of displays in the World Cup. Bit of a gamble. Could have saved a few quid by keeping him at the club and not bothering buying Lambert. Not sure where he fits in.
Lazar Markovic - £20m - Great potential and powerful with the ball at his feet. Big money for someone who I going to sit on the bench though. I think he could be very good long term it will just be interesting to see how Rodgers can develop him without giving him regular gametime which he will need.
Javier Manquillo - Don't know much about him and hasn't looked that good from what I have seen so far.
Alberto Moreno - £12m, had a good game against Spurs but then looked awful alongside Lovern against City. Can't say I am dazzled but will need time to settle.
Mario Balotelli - £16m. Overrated. People seem to have forgotten how much of a problem he has been wherever he has played all because we haven't seen him in England for a while. Don't think he was a planned addition (hence Lambert being signed)
Rickie Lambert - Liverpool's new number 9. Aged 32 with no real top level experience costing £4m. With Balotelli coming in don't have a clue why he was signed and not sure he offers enough at a top level club.
Adam Lallana - Looks a good player but expensive at £25m considering he again has no top level experience bar the PL and is not a youngster anymore given he is 25. United paid a similar fee for Shaw who is aged 18. Typical English player premium.
Emre Can - Young enough to develop further but let go by Bayern Munich on the cheap. His development stalled somewhat so will be interesting to see what Rodgers can do with him and if he gets game time. £10m.
Dejan Lovren - Liverpool needed a CB just like United so spent £20m on this man who has looked pretty average so far this season. Big money for a CB all things considered and Rodgers will hope he starts to settle soon.
Divock Origi - A £10m buy purely off the back of a couple of displays in the World Cup. Bit of a gamble. Could have saved a few quid by keeping him at the club and not bothering buying Lambert. Not sure where he fits in.
Lazar Markovic - £20m - Great potential and powerful with the ball at his feet. Big money for someone who I going to sit on the bench though. I think he could be very good long term it will just be interesting to see how Rodgers can develop him without giving him regular gametime which he will need.
Javier Manquillo - Don't know much about him and hasn't looked that good from what I have seen so far.
Alberto Moreno - £12m, had a good game against Spurs but then looked awful alongside Lovern against City. Can't say I am dazzled but will need time to settle.
Mario Balotelli - £16m. Overrated. People seem to have forgotten how much of a problem he has been wherever he has played all because we haven't seen him in England for a while. Don't think he was a planned addition (hence Lambert being signed)
Maybe you would if you could offer the wages we can, though.
You can't really criticise the wages we offer players, it's a necessity in order to sign the great ones right now, and we can comfortably afford it.
But hey, if it makes you feel better to laugh at the wages we offer players like Di Maria and Falcao whilst you sign players like Balotelli, go ahead.
I was really talking irrespective of signing fees, I don't care much about them to be honest.
Don't really agree with what you say of Lambert, but it's very subjective of course.