United have a squad full of players that have won PL titles, even our 23 year old keeper De Gea has won one. To compare our squad with a Liverpool squad under Rafa that hadn't won a single title between them is a big mistake. Our confidence was fecking shattered last season, lets see what happens under a manager that'll without question pump them back up in confidence.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
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United have a squad full of players that have won PL titles, even our 23 year old keeper De Gea has won one. To compare our squad with a Liverpool squad under Rafa that hadn't won a single title between them is a big mistake. Our confidence was fecking shattered last season, lets see what happens under a manager that'll without question pump them back up in confidence.
Fair play, it's difficult to tell sometimes.
Not to mention a striker they're buying and pinning a lot of hope on is from a newly promoted side.
You seriously must be the greatest troll on the internet, you had me renaming all your new signings FFS. I'm genuinely just gonna stop taking any notice of yours posts before I end up needing to start taking pills just to cope.
It's a bit of both but Moyes created one of the most toxic atmospheres I've seen for a team. The players are culpable too, but it was really an ongoing mutiny for most of the year.
Agreed, I've never really bought that.
What I do buy is that however senior or gifted you are it's hard to perform well in a team that is being so patently undercoached and mismanaged tactically. Look at all the managers who get their teams playing like so much more than the sum of their parts. The inverse is very much also a thing, and Moyes last season was a classic example of it.
Not sure why United fans are so cocky of us finishing above Liverpool. In all honesty we have no idea how either team will perform after the changes this summer for both clubs.
I think that's letting the players off too lightly. Moyes managed to have Everton play better as a team than the individual players would suggest they were capable of. I think a few senior pros were not prepared to do it his way and it impacted where you finished.
Remind me where Lallana, Lambert and Lovren came from?
Everton and United were almost totally different tasks though. If anything it was his most Everton-esque decisions that were the most damaging at United. I don't think you can point to the impressive job he did at Everton and claim that as evidence that what happened at United was the players' fault. By the same logic, that set of players strolled to the league title the season before.
My point is a simple one. It's not all Moyes fault.
Do you think the team that Ferguson coached to the title the year prior wouldn't have gotten a top 2 finish out of that squad? Be honest with yourself.
That bad? Blimey, not good.
I don't think any of us are saying that. How many times do you hear us ridicule our midfield and wingers on here?
I do think that it was his fault for the most part though, his mentality and lack of experience spread throughout the squad like a fecking virus.
No, obviously. It's mostly his fault.
It's an unprovable moot point.
Apology accepted
Kind of but he did play for Newcastle.
The squad was atrocious. We still have shocking set of players to chose as wingers and we have no back up defense. Moyes is to blame but the players take a massive chunk of the blame as far as I'm concerned.
If that coentrao deal had gone through along with Herrera who knows what would've happened.
Agreed. He had a big part to play but even without Moyes we would have finished 4th or 5th.
It seems a pretty simple conclusion to make. United finished 1 or 2 in most years under Ferguson. With the team that won the title comfortably, he probably could have again. Its just as logical a presumption as any the oppo's have made.
Nope. I think you'd have been relegated.
It's a daft question and unanswerable.
Shocking squad that won the fecking title, i'm so confused by this argument. There is not a snowball's chance in hell we would have finished 4th or 5th with SAF managing us with the team he won the title with. And we would not have bought the bean pole.
Its not daft at all. He rarely finished below 2nd in his career with us. Why would he suddenly break that routine of winning or coming 2nd?
Even so Newcastle were also mid table, I'm sure now he's just trolling but to call out United for signing a player from Southampton who he considered "mid table" where you signed 3 players is a bit silly, and also then going on to say a team that finished 4th is also mid table.
You do seem to confuse easily.
nice one.
I just don't get the proposition we would have finished 4th or 5th with SAF at the helm, which didn't happen since the early 90s.
Well you probably wouldn't have had Rooney for a start.
oh no...We'd be stuck with that other lousy forward we have...
If we're going on those hypotheticals, we hypothetically would have had Thiago and/or Garay.
True but the relentless claims about Liverpool's new signings as being average probably prompted the comments.
My take is that had Fergie stayed he'd have done a '95 style clear out. It was a side that had peaked and he was always ruthless in that regard.
I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that you're a bit dim if you think losing Rooney wouldn't have been a problem.
No real loss. He's not good enough to get into our first team anyway, not a fan.
Nonsense. Whatever you think about Agger it's statistically proven that we concede much, much, much less when he plays compared to when everyone else plays. We keep a clean sheet about 1 every 2 games with Agger, with Sakho it was something awful like 1 in 17 starts.
Can't prove everything with the stats above but they back up what I think so I'll use them anyway. For me Agger's biggest problem is his defending at set pieces and given that a) all our defenders are awful at set pieces and b) Agger had no problems under Rafa at set pieces, I'd be inclined to think it's a coaching problem. I know Rodgers has blamed our defenders for individual mistakes but for me that's him trying to shift the blame, I'm not sure whether we need to change marking system but we do need to improve how our defenders are coached. If not we'll leak goals at set pieces no matter who plays.
Not sure he'd clear out that dramatically. Rooney would have gone but I think he was a bit sentimental about some players, like Valencia, Young, Clevz, Vidic, Evra, etc.
Rooney in that season that we won the title was not one to remember for him. In a system with RvP and a better player maker behind him we could have won the title again. Rooney was garbage in that title-winning season. Please, continue throwing insults about my intelligence out and about because of my opinion that differs from yours.
Every other 'pool fan here seems to think your signings have been class. Does that not include him then?
Fact is, the guy who left United in 2013 was a far more significant departure than the guy who has left Liverpool this summer. Interestingly, I don't read enough United fans acknowledging this. He WAS the reason for those years of success. United have entered a new phase now that other clubs are very familiar with and they know new managers are hard to get right.
So we had a terrible time with an important figure leaving, but Liverpool won't?
Not really, unfortunately. I don't think they've been terrible but so far I've been very underwhelmed. They haven't been the type of signing you'd expect your team to make having been told how much easier it's going to be to attract players with European football, at least.
We've definitely improved our depth but if I was picking a first 11 out of our current squad, 10 of them were already here. I think too many Liverpool fans are ignoring the starting 11, it's completely valid to say squads win leagues but you can't ignore the first 11.
Overall though I'll be happy enough if we get Lovren in(not a huge fan but probably the best we can do) and a top left back which for me is our biggest weakness. Otherwise it's disappointing. I'm naturally pessimistic, but our success last season was in spite of our transfer window and I'm not sure we can do the same trick twice.
Edit: think I misunderstood your question actually but you can probably get the answer from my post anyway.
No that was great. I see it the way you do. They've added squad depth that was sorely needed but your starting xi has gotten worse, it has to be said.