[RuudTom83]

Perfect match for him, against a superior foe, just hope he uses this performance and repeats it next week.

 

[#07]

Back to looking like the guy we fell in love with.

 

[macheda14]

He’s been poor a lot of this season, but I think like a lot of our players they just need to understand their new role. I think with a few more sessions he’ll get used to having to cover across into the left channel more. He was already our most front foot defender which works with Amorim’s style and he’s excellent on the ball. There’s no reason he shouldn’t excel.

 

[ole@thewheel]

With technique like that, maybe we’ve been playing him in the wrong position all along. Stick him up front, and we might have the clinical striker we’ve been missing! Especially since Højlund had an almost identical chance earlier—and somehow managed to miss it.

That finish was so good it made me nostalgic. It reminded me of Rio Ferdinand’s goal against the Scousers back in the day—unexpectedly brilliant for a defender.

All aside, I can’t shake the concern about his defending on the back foot, especially in that LCB position. He’s fantastic with the ball at his feet, no doubt about it—his passing is top-notch, but he is just too vulnerable on defending for my liking.

 

[Oranges038]

He was better defensively than he has been, U thought there were maybe a few occasions where Dalot showed Salah inside that he could have been close to when he did move the ball onto his left.

Beautiful finish for the goal and his general play on the ball was as good as we've seen recently.

 

[JJ12]

Other than one of those annoying poke clearances back into a dangerous area, I thought he was brilliant

 

[Red the Bear]

His finishing on the goal was unironicaly top notch, didn't know he had that I'm him.

 

[11101]

His finishing on the goal was unironicaly top notch, didn't know he had that I'm him.

It was a textbook centre back's goal, smash it as hard as he possibly can. Great goal but I probably wouldn't call it clinical finishing!

 

[Red the Bear]

It was a textbook centre back's goal, smash it as hard as he possibly can. Great goal but I probably wouldn't call it clinical finishing!

Well recent outings have somewhat lowered my standards.

 

[FujiVice]

Has the legs of Jonathan Woodgate and Ledley King these days. Week to week he cant do it anymore, but for the big games he delivers big. Injuries has absolutely took it out of him, but still a force when we need a result. Dont think we can rely on him as a regular anymore.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Has the legs of Jonathan Woodgate and Ledley King these days. Week to week he cant do it anymore, but for the big games he delivers big. Injuries has absolutely took it out of him, but still a force when we need a result. Dont think we can rely on him as a regular anymore.

He’s 26 years old. He’s had two relatively minor injuries in different parts of his body. He just needs to play his way back into form. He’s not physically finished. Why is everyone so desperate to write him off?!

 

[mancsarered]

Is he good enough on the ball to serve a role every now and then in MF for Amorim?

 

[Red & White]

Much more like his old self today. The finish for his goal reminded me of Giggsy’s in the FA Cup semi final replay against Arsenal in ‘99!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Martinez can barely run. He would add nothing to the attack and defence

100% should be dropped for either Yoro or Maz.

Blind was far better than him.

Maybe a wee bit premature to write the poor fecker off?

This thread is mental. He’s taken a good while to get going again after a very long spell out. Complicated by having to get used to new partners, in a new formation. You can actually see him gradually improve over this season, up until the change to a back three. Where he is very obviously still learning the ropes.

The rush to write him off completely - and belittle the quality we’ve already seen from him - is so nuts in this context.

 

[FujiVice]

He’s 26 years old. He’s had two relatively minor injuries in different parts of his body. He just needs to play his way back into form. He’s not physically finished. Why is everyone so desperate to write him off?!

Two minor injuries dont keep you out for over a year. He came back the start of last season and looked a shell and went under the knife again. Returned and again got injured. We havent had a full season out of him yet.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Two minor injuries dont keep you out for over a year. He came back the start of last season and looked a shell and went under the knife again. Returned and again got injured. We havent had a full season out of him yet.

He fractured a metatarsal. Which didn’t heal properly the first time. Hence he had to have an operation to fix it. It’s a bone. Once it got finally sorted it will be as strong, or stronger, than it was before the fracture. The other injury was a medial knee ligament sprain. Which wasn’t severe enough to need surgery. Another injury with a good long term prognosis. There’s nothing in his injury record that would put him anywhere near the Woodgate/King category.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Much more like the old Licha, aggressive but controlled, actually pushed out of the defence to stay with his man a lot which was helpful.

Great performance today.

 

[Fobal]

It was a textbook centre back's goal, smash it as hard as he possibly can. Great goal but I probably wouldn't call it clinical finishing!

From that angle? it was a great finish, plus he took a look at the keeper, his time and smash it, normally players just shot/cross on sight, he did what a Tevez, Aguero would have done...he is lacking some luck with his few attemps to score, he already had some clear goal instances were he showed a great shot in him, he must try it more and his mates find him more the few times he goes for it.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

He’s 26 years old. He’s had two relatively minor injuries in different parts of his body. He just needs to play his way back into form. He’s not physically finished. Why is everyone so desperate to write him off?!

He's been out form for over 18 months. He was always overrated to begin with.

Today was a solid performance by him, but he's generally looked weak in the back three system. Maybe he will adapt. Covering wide areas isn't his strength though.

His cult like following from the start is basically a reflection of United post SAF. We're quick to latch onto anything half decent and milk it for what it's worth.

 

[lex talionis]

From that angle? it was a great finish, plus he took a look at the keeper, his time and smash it, normally players just shot/cross on sight, he did what a Tevez, Aguero would have done...he is lacking some luck with his few attemps to score, he already had some clear goal isnatnces were he showed a great shot in him, he must try it more and his mates find him more the few times he goes for it.

Agreed. It was a brilliantly struck ball, a textbook finish that humbled the world's greatest keeper.

 

[Bastian]

He's been out form for over 18 months. He was always overrated to begin with.

Today was a solid performance by him, but he's generally looked weak in the back three system. Maybe he will adapt. Covering wide areas isn't his strength though.

His cult like following from the start is basically a reflection of United post SAF. We're quick to latch onto anything half decent and milk it for what it's worth.

I agree that he's been positionally shaky in this system and he's not helped by having a right full back and left wing-back, and obviously when he had Eriksen and Casemiro in front of him. But I hope us finally having time to train properly, and not just react to a relentless schedule, will help both him, and de Ligt in that RCB role plenty. The other player really needing to get acclimatised is Garnacho.

 

[Mike Smalling]

He has an excellent long through ball at times. Today’s for Højlund was a bit similar to the one for Amad at City.

He’s a great player when he’s on it. Would be a shame if we can’t fit him into the side, but he certainly has limitations as well.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe a wee bit premature to write the poor fecker off?

I didn’t write him off completely, I’ve been a big fan of his.
But he’s been shite and probably deserved to be dropped, in my opinion

Absolutely delighted he looked back to his old self.

 

[Bobby_2024]

Can he play as LWB?

 

[Rossa]

Maybe a wee bit premature to write the poor fecker off?

This thread is mental. He’s taken a good while to get going again after a very long spell out. Complicated by having to get used to new partners, in a new formation. You can actually see him gradually improve over this season, up until the change to a back three. Where he is very obviously still learning the ropes.

The rush to write him off completely - and belittle the quality we’ve already seen from him - is so nuts in this context.

Completely agree. Also, you need to consider that he’s had to defend the wide areas much more than he should because Dalot’s been all over the place positionally as a lwb. Thus making it harder for him to defend his zone and stay close to the other CBs.

Martinez isn’t slow. He’s no prime Rio, but he’s fine. He’s also much more agile than most, and the talk about his height is getting boring. He will lose an aerial duel, but even VVD does from time to time - whom, btw, lost like three foot races to Højlund today, without the latter ever being able to capitalise on any…

 

[Fortitude]

I dunno why you have Lisandro's reading so below par.
The rethoric against him has peak to some insane levels in recent times and I get that he had his mistakes, his lack of edge that comes with him normally, but it's his intelligence what made him possible to be a pro player even more than his skills.
Does this make him Passarella? nope, but neither like I've read recently "the worse perfomance from any United player in the last 10 years" or that he has overall as a player a bad reading (diff that in a certain match or moment of a match he might), that's just silly Fortitude.
Players specially in cursed teams like United will go into motions, like a rollercoaster, I know this lad from when he started and if anything, he is mostly clever.
It's his comittment from time to time, his over confidence and his size and not the best of pace his things to "deal with" like any player has too.

Wouldn’t be a good day for me to reply to this properly, suffice it to say there’s a combination of Blind being an exceptionally smart player and defender and Martinez being an OK to good one at play here. For the record, I would put Blind’s game reading in the top, or just below top bracket against almost anyone from his era. You give him one of those physically advantageous bodies, and you’re talking about absolutely top shelf calibre.

But anyway, I am pleased for Martinez. The offensive stuff wasn’t and isn’t a surprise, but his defending was positive and assertive and his concentration levels were back to what he was associated with in his first season. If he keeps that up, there’d be no denying he’s back.

 

[Fobal]

Wouldn’t be a good day for me to reply to this properly, suffice it to say there’s a combination of Blind being an exceptionally smart player and defender and Martinez being an OK to good one at play here. For the record, I would put Blind’s game reading in the top, or just below top bracket against almost anyone from his era. You give him one of those physically advantageous bodies, and you’re talking about absolutely top shelf calibre.

But anyway, I am pleased for Martinez. The offensive stuff wasn’t and isn’t a surprise, but his defending was positive and assertive and his concentration levels were back to what he was associated with in his first season. If he keeps that up, there’d be no denying he’s back.

I wasn't talking about Blind, I was reffering to the constant opinion regarding his bad reading...I'll make it easier, there is no way in hell that Lisandro would have even play First division football anywhere as a central back if it weren't for his reading (as a side note once Alexis named him the most intelligent one in the NT squad bar Messi and if ALexis is sthg., it's being smart as fvck, even if I do not entirely agree with his opinion (for once he is more clever than Licha), the other extreme of calling Lisandro: Heinze or Rojo, it's over the top as hell)

Another side of the coin, it's what happens when he gets over confident, not physically fit, or just annoyed at his own team. He is a volatile character and that can lead from some silly over the top attempt, to some over the top non chalant disposition, adding some urge to solve everything around him when things gets too much problematic.
But at teh end of the day there is no pro football player with Licha, no matter what can people can think of him, with his size, power and pace without him being smart and having a knack for reading plays. It's just very fecking evident in more than one aspect even if he can do the ocassional dumb stuff that BTW any pñlayer does, even the greatest ever.

 

[Fortitude]

I wasn't talking about Blind, I was reffering to the constant opinion regarding his bad reading...I'll make it easier, there is no way in hell that Lisandro would have even play First division football anywhere as a central back if it weren't for his reading (as a side note once Alexis named him the most intelligent one in the NT squad bar Messi and if ALexis is sthg., it's being smart as fvck, even if I do not entirely agree with his opinion (for once he is more clever than Licha), the other extreme of calling Lisandro: Heinze or Rojo, it's over the top as hell)

Another side of the coin, it's what happens when he gets over confident, not physically fit, or just annoyed at his own team. He is a volatile character and that can lead from some silly over the top attempt, to some over the top non chalant disposition, adding some urge to solve everything around him when things gets too much problematic.
But at teh end of the day there is no pro football player with Licha, no matter what can people can think of him, with his size, power and pace without him being smart and having a knack for reading plays. It's just very fecking evident in more than one aspect even if he can do the ocassional dumb stuff that BTW any pñlayer does, even the greatest ever.

Yeah but what you’re saying is elementary and known and how he won so many over who doubted him when he first got here. It doesn’t stand for anything when not on display, however, and that’s where we’ve mostly been with him post-injury to the point of legitimate concern and him being a liability on the defensive end, especially in a 3-man defence. When he’s playing as he was, he’s not one I want to see on the team sheet because the margins for him are so fine due to his physical limitations.

I’m not one who called him Rojo or Heinze; I would say I offer a fair critique that I am happy to defend or have contested. If this were his there or thereabouts, I’d have no problem saying so in here. I actually want him to do well, and you will mostly see posts that support that, but burying one’s head in the sand for players you like is not being objective.

 

[Dominos]

Maybe a wee bit premature to write the poor fecker off?

This thread is mental. He’s taken a good while to get going again after a very long spell out. Complicated by having to get used to new partners, in a new formation. You can actually see him gradually improve over this season, up until the change to a back three. Where he is very obviously still learning the ropes.

The rush to write him off completely - and belittle the quality we’ve already seen from him - is so nuts in this context.

He had an absolutely masterclass against City away and got rightly praised, and then followed that up with his worst form since he's been here.

At some point we have to stop looking at individual performances because they can fluctuate game to game, week to week, month to month. What we really need to ask if they really have the necessary attributes to be a consistently elite player in their position. A centre back who is slow and small will never be a colossal centre back that we want. He will have good games, and he will have games where his obvious physical weaknesses are exposed, that's what we have to prepare ourselves for and ask are we going to win the league with that?

I don't think him getting overpowered on an aerial duel from a cross that results in a goal is because he had an off game or he's not match sharp, or it's a new formation, that's just who he is. I don't think when he gets outrun and outpaced it's because it's an off game or because he has a new centre back partner, that's just who he is. That's just his limitations as a player.

 

[Fobal]

Yeah but what you’re saying is elementary and known and how he won so many over who doubted him when he first got here. It doesn’t stand for anything when not on display, however, and that’s where we’ve mostly been with him post-injury to the point of legitimate concern and him being a liability on the defensive end, especially in a 3-man defence. When he’s playing as he was, he’s not one I want to see on the team sheet because the margins for him are so fine due to his physical limitations.

I’m not one who called him Rojo or Heinze; I would say I offer a fair critique that I am happy to defend or have contested. If this were his there or thereabouts, I’d have no problem saying so in here. I actually want him to do well, and you will mostly see posts that support that, but burying one’s head in the sand for players you like is not being objective.

It would be elementary if he just was a defender in the Venezuelan League, yet him being in the NT, having those great years in Argentina and teh Dutch League and really great matches in England, it stands for more than that.

More than limitations, timing is everything in life, if everytime he was coming back he fell with another injury and in the meantime coaches still experiment with the side, anyones game will suffer.
This won't convert him in Passarella and everything around him shyte instead of him, yet neither he forgot how to play or suddenly be so shyte or having essentially as a player a bad reading.
I never put you on the troll bandwagon, far form it, yet after reading so much about his reading, I do think it's quite a bit extreme, more in his case that he needs that more than other players in his position.

PD:
The way United, even today, defends his flank, from the forwards to the mid, it's suicidal, if we combine this with him still not in his best form, with his traits including bad ones and the easy target he has been since day one even from the Press, it's a bad combination.

Yet if actually someone put his brain on analyzing some of his mistakes, not few of them came after a domino of them. Today in fact there were many of those mistakes, but he played extremely agressive and he got the best of the great majority of plays, but he could have been severly punished and trashed if some of those late tackles or anticipations didn't work. Amorin MUST solve this, if not no matter who plas as CB on his flank, he'll suffer.
Just take a time to watch this last game, you'll see on the bad side of the coin, some bad or mild clearences from him, yet mostly too many times he had to play to the limit to avoid some huge dammage, included the anticipation of the goal and quite many crucial last stance ditches due to United being extremely exposed...and this demanded?: great reading, aside technical ability to snatch or pass the ball.

The good thing from this match, it's that even doing some mistakes as a team, everyone looked more agressive, more calm with the ball and really focus on the gameplan, in such way neither of the defenders will suffer as much as they have suffer, yet still is a team that will expose quite a lot his backline.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

That finish. fecking sensational from a defender.

Also, is my butcher back? Dealt with Salah all game alongside Dalot. Decisive all game. Defensively strong.

He seems like a big game player. His last 3 elite performances was:

Man City (N)
Man City (A)
Liverpool (A)

He needs to step up and be more consistent throughout the rest of the season now.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Blind's reading of the game is far, far beyond Martinez'. He may have been a little slow and weak, but outside of that, he was a really good player all round who often used his superior mind and reading of the game to get the better of forwards much bigger and faster than he was.

You can't decline to a player that is overall better than you...

Blind was indeed very good and I have no issue with a subjective opinion of his reading of the game being better but 'far, far beyond' is a bit overboard. That Blind + Smalling partnership was really good and I remember Blind regularly pocketing players like Lukaku with ease. Definitely one of my favourite players to watch at that time. However, I also remember Martinez regularly pocketing players like Lewandowski and Haaland also.

The issue is that Blind's career as a centre back was short lived and broken up by 'my defender must be 6ft+' Mourinho, who subsequently brought in Lindelof. Then Martinez's Utd career post first season has been riddled with injuries, playing in suicidal 4-2-4 bollocks or now acclimatising in a back 3. Martinez is far more emotional and subsequently has had way worse displays because as @Fobal has said, he gets caught up in the moment and loses all of his fundamentals (far too often in the past year). Yet to compare his reading of the game as that below Blind doesn't sit right with me.

I don't think Blind playing as a centre back in a 4-2-4 or back 3* with the way we (don't) control midfield for the past 18 months would be that much prettier than what Martinez has shown. He wouldn't have as many lowlights as Martinez has because of his calm and measured nature to the game but he would absolutely get rinsed more simply because of his lack of pace/aggression perhaps.

*I know he's played there many times and was comfortable with the national team but I'm strictly talking about Utd and in the PL.

 

[Idxomer]

He hasn't been great defensively, but this system allows him to show his passing range much more than before. His progressive passing has been far more impressive than under Ten Hag. It's the main reason he will keep playing despite his physical limitations.

 

[kafta]

We need him back to his best if we're gonna start winning matches. Great to see him on the front foot yesterday, and his passing was mint too.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

 

[MikeUpNorth]

I love the little fecker. Hope this is the start of a good run of form for him.

We shouldn't be so quick to write players off when they're still of a good age and have shown their quality before. Martinez, Bruno, Mainoo, Dalot etc all have enough quality to be part of of our future. At least, we should hope so because we aren't going to be able to replace the whole squad.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Clearly a good player, clearly important for us if we want to play with the ball. Has the mentality in spades.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Best game he's had in god knows how long. Quite possibly the best game he's ever had for us with Varane not next to him? Not that I'm a historian on what games Martinez has played without Varane or anything.

 

[A-man]

Great goal, beautiful and also himself who won back the goal to win possession. Also much better defending than we have seen lately. Motm.

 

[NLunited]

It was a textbook centre back's goal, smash it as hard as he possibly can. Great goal but I probably wouldn't call it clinical finishing!

From that angle roofing it is the best option. He made the right decision.