Lisandro Martinez image 6

Lisandro Martinez Argentina flag

2024-25 Performances

View full 2024-25 profile

5.6 Season Average Rating
Appearances
32
Clean sheets
8
Goals
1
Assists
1
Yellow cards
8
Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
Said it before. He's a voluntary handicap.

It's crazy - almost hubristic - to think that you can play a short, slow, hyperagressive CB who doesn't read the game well, overcommits non-stop and has to be hidden on opposition set-pieces. All because he's pretty good (not elite) on the ball.

I truly think he's one of the very worst centre-backs in the league.
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Agreed. It is laughable. Sell him asap.
 
Dominos said:
I was reliably informed from the Caf he's one of the top 5 centre backs in world football.
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He isn’t. There’s a reason why Argentina played a 35 year old Otamendi ahead of him in the World Cup.

The problem isn’t just his height. It’s the combo of being small and no speed. What were we thinking signing him? Maybe he would do well in a league where the team is more dominant in possession, but we aren’t that team.
 
I still think his pros outweigh the cons. First goal he should be blocking Isak even if the ball gets a bad deflection, that is a fair criticism. Once the sub happened he was fine because the back 3 got some screening and then was starting basically all of our attacks by pinging the ball into the runners. Second goal being blamed on him just seems like scapegoating, Joelinton is like 6ft 1 and had the run on him, he scores that against any CB because he is airborne and using his arm.
 
Looked terrific pre injury but has looked finished since

The lack of awareness for the Isak 1v1 chance was criminal
 
At this point just sell in January. Go with de ligt maz and yoro as the 3 CBs. Maguire can be the 4th as sub.
 
That goal bordered on farce, like who could have seen that coming for the smallest CB in the most physical league in the world...
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I still think his pros outweigh the cons. First goal he should be blocking Isak even if the ball gets a bad deflection, that is a fair criticism. Once the sub happened he was fine because the back 3 got some screening and then was starting basically all of our attacks by pinging the ball into the runners. Second goal being blamed on him just seems like scapegoating, Joelinton is like 6ft 1 and had the run on him, he scores that against any CB because he is airborne and using his arm.
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Yes. He had the run on him. Because martinez, who could see him, didn't react, anticipate and get into a good position. It was shocking defending from a shocking defender.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I still think his pros outweigh the cons. First goal he should be blocking Isak even if the ball gets a bad deflection, that is a fair criticism. Once the sub happened he was fine because the back 3 got some screening and then was starting basically all of our attacks by pinging the ball into the runners. Second goal being blamed on him just seems like scapegoating, Joelinton is like 6ft 1 and had the run on him, he scores that against any CB because he is airborne and using his arm.
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What pros?
 
Ekeke said:
Too weak in the air, we know it already and its why we need players like Maguire and De Ligt. On this occasion Maguire is fighting with someone so Lisandro needs to defend the ball in the air on his own. Not a surprise that he's outjumped
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This is why the compensation mentality is so damaging.

You cannot rely on other players to cover your weakness, the pitch is too big and there are other opposition players to worry about.

You need players who can deal with the situations you need them to deal with and win a 1v1 duel, whether that be height, pace or strength.
 
Him getting the armband for tonight was mental, he has been a total liability for most of the season and shouldn't have even started.
 
Bojan11 said:
He isn’t. There’s a reason why Argentina played a 35 year old Otamendi ahead of him in the World Cup.

The problem isn’t just his height. It’s the combo of being small and no speed. What were we thinking signing him? Maybe he would do well in a league where the team is more dominant in possession, but we aren’t that team.
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I think we were thinking/hoping that he would look like how he did during his first season. You know, a very good defender despite him being quite small. It is like people on this site have no memory and dont even remember the period when Martinez was actually looking like a very good Premier League defender.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I still think his pros outweigh the cons. First goal he should be blocking Isak even if the ball gets a bad deflection, that is a fair criticism. Once the sub happened he was fine because the back 3 got some screening and then was starting basically all of our attacks by pinging the ball into the runners. Second goal being blamed on him just seems like scapegoating, Joelinton is like 6ft 1 and had the run on him, he scores that against any CB because he is airborne and using his arm.
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Crazy you think a big strong centre back doesn't have a chance of stopping that goal. I'd expect most centre backs to deal with that.
 
Dominos said:
This is why the compensation mentality is so damaging.

You cannot rely on other players to cover your weakness, the pitch is too big and there are other opposition players to worry about.

You need players who can deal with the situations you need them to deal with and win a 1v1 duel, whether that be height, pace or strength.
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Other teams play CBs who arent as strong in the air as Maguire and De Ligt in their backline as well. When you have 2 of them you have to be covered. Instead both Maguire and De Ligt were poor today as well.
 
Bojan11 said:
He isn’t. There’s a reason why Argentina played a 35 year old Otamendi ahead of him in the World Cup.

The problem isn’t just his height. It’s the combo of being small and no speed. What were we thinking signing him? Maybe he would do well in a league where the team is more dominant in possession, but we aren’t that team.
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Everyone also thought it was really weird because he played great for us in his first season.

I don’t think the back three is working at the moment, none of the centre backs seem to understand it, although De Ligt has been okay. Maguire has always played on the left side of the back three for England.
 
Worst player on the pitch, atleast Hojlund we know is not of the desired quality and has age to his side.

Martinez is garbage, he has no defensive awareness, Yoro came on who is primarily an inexperienced teenager and showed Lisandro how to play that role outside of the back three.

The club should be 100% replacing him with Branthwaite.
 
Dominos said:
Crazy you think a big strong centre back doesn't have a chance of stopping that goal. I'd expect most centre backs to deal with that.
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Nah, i dont think so. A taller player would have a slightly better chance though. Joelinton is an unit and came running in (unmarked), got to jump forward towards the ball after his run while the defender was standing still and had to jump straight up to defend. I think Maguire would also have been beaten in that situation.
 
He was terrible, all our defenders were, but he was the worst. Very worrying.
 
Stadjer said:
Nah, i dont think so. A taller player would have a slightly better chance though. Joelinton is an unit and came running in (unmarked), got to jump forward towards the ball after his run while the defender was standing still and had to jump straight up to defend. I think Maguire would also have been beaten in that situation.
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No chance.
 
Bojan11 said:
What pros?
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I mean, can you just read the post?
dirkey said:
Yes. He had the run on him. Because martinez, who could see him, didn't react, anticipate and get into a good position. It was shocking defending from a shocking defender.
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More that's just how physics works, he's always making those runs just like McT did for us. I just checked his headed goals and he got similar ones over Soumare, 6 ft 2 and Godfrey, 6ft who are both units. Obviously if he's super tall he might be able to but he'd still have the issue of not being able to jump with the arm.
 
Dan_F said:
Everyone also thought it was really weird because he played great for us in his first season.

I don’t think the back three is working at the moment, none of the centre backs seem to understand it, although De Ligt has been okay. Maguire has always played on the left side of the back three for England.
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I dont think any of our players understand how to play the system, other than maybe Ugarte who played it at Sporting. Its no excuse for the performances from the players. But I dont think its something where we can just point to the CBs as not understanding the system when the wingbacks dont understand it, the midfielders cant control and pass the ball to each other and their teammates, the 10s cant get the ball in dangerous areas and the striker cant hold onto the ball or score his chance.
 
Ekeke said:
I dont think any of our players understand how to play the system, other than maybe Ugarte who played it at Sporting. Its no excuse for the performances from the players. But I dont think its something where we can just point to the CBs as not understanding the system when the wingbacks dont understand it, the midfielders cant control and pass the ball to each other and their teammates, the 10s cant get the ball in dangerous areas and the striker cant hold onto the ball or score his chance.
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Yeah I agree with all of that, I was mainly referring to centre backs not understanding how to defend crosses. They don’t know where to stand and who to pick up.
 
Fortitude said:
@criticalanalysis that lack of reading the game was on full display again. Before any physical limitations, the way he reads things is by far the biggest problem. It's why he is so often flat-footed or caught completely unawares losing his man, or not covering for others.

Just don't see what place he can occupy in a back 3.
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Indefensible game from him tonight and I knew this would come back to bite me. I will caveat by saying let's be honest here and say that this isn't his 'norm' though with regards to reading the flight of the ball or aerials in the box. You could argue it is based on his current past 12-18 months and that's fair, although I'll disagree (even if it is becoming harder by the game..).

Doesn't really change what I had proposed though. Maguire and de Ligt not really affecting the game aerially, off or on the ball. All three of them wasn't good enough and haven't been this season.
 
He is a great character. Fun, aggressive, a good left peg. I can understand why he has been a fan favorite here.
But he is just not that good as a defender, he needs a slower and easier league to play in.
He lacks understanding of the game, anticipation, timing, size. He can not make up for it with aggression.
He is in his prime as well. We can not really expect him to unravel into some Cannavaro type by keeping him in the starting eleven. Ruben took him off early this game so he has probably realized this as well.
I know the plan is to take it easy with Yoro but we are probably forced to start him more and more now. He is still raw but a better allround defender than Licha.
 
Ekeke said:
I dont think any of our players understand how to play the system, other than maybe Ugarte who played it at Sporting. Its no excuse for the performances from the players. But I dont think its something where we can just point to the CBs as not understanding the system when the wingbacks dont understand it, the midfielders cant control and pass the ball to each other and their teammates, the 10s cant get the ball in dangerous areas and the striker cant hold onto the ball or score his chance.
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This is the most worrying thing. Both WCBs are afraid of closing space and stay in the penalty box right next to the CCB. Mazraoui wasn't great but de Ligt was almost always 10-15 yards away near his own 6 yard box whenever there was a threat down that channel. Martinez is at least a bit better and will meet the threat but was not exactly dominant himself.

What's worse is that all three CBs have no clue how to defend the 6 yard box aerially. Either leaving or not covering 1st and 2nd runners. Proper comedic stuff.
 
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Martinez defending crosses is just a waste of time.

The fact that our 6 foot giants Maguire and De Ligt can't defend those crosses and leaves it to him is probably more criminal.
 
A big dilemma is that he's our best passer but he gets bullied physically.

After he went off today Newcastle took over after we we were on top for the second half.
 
I do not think he should be playing as center back for us. He is not strong or high enough and the other teams take advantage of it. Maybe he could play left back for us.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I mean, can you just read the post?

More that's just how physics works, he's always making those runs just like McT did for us. I just checked his headed goals and he got similar ones over Soumare, 6 ft 2 and Godfrey, 6ft who are both units. Obviously if he's super tall he might be able to but he'd still have the issue of not being able to jump with the arm.
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If he had reacted early, like a proper defender with good instincts, he could have put a challenge in, in my opinion.
 
Another one that needs to be replaced. Costing us goals every week. His lack of height is being cruelly exposed now because tall players, set pieces and crosses are in fashion now. And he doesn't have the speed or even the defensive instincts to compensate for it.

How he doesn't cover Isak who is on Maguire's blind side sums him up. What's his thought process in that situation?!
 
I really don't remember him being an aerial liability in his first season, but it's clear as day now. It's a bit sad, because he has some really good qualities, but I just don't see how he fits into this system anywhere other than CB.
 
Why do we keep picking slow small CBs that have good technical ability but can't actually defend? Sell him while his stock his high.
 
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