Had all time in the world to mark Semenya but decided to mark space instead.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 32
- Clean sheets
- 8
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 8
You mean his best position is where he’s expected to win headers against the oppositions striker?
His best position is when Shaw is in the team, as he can compensate for him, but only in a back 4 formation.
Love the guys attitude, but he’s 100% a square peg in a round hole and with the team rebuild he needs to be moved on.
Or last season. Just part of his first season tbh
Yeah. His first season is massively overrated but it was his best.
We need to look past the so called warrior persona and realise that he's not that good.
He seems to have lost all his confidence and grit that he had since his injuries.
He has sort of become an easy target for many now. He was bad against Spurs but he was not that bad today. In fact one may argue all our defenders were poor today but he at least was making some good passes which other two were not able to. We may need to upgrade him but right now he is far from our problem.
Blows hot and cold during the 90mins. Good on the ball, distrbutes it well but gets caught out far to often. His height is definately a problem on set pieces etc.
Just not the same player. How many CBs have we had in recent years to have cracking first seasons then fade for whatever reason?
Billy, Lindelof, Rojo, etc
Billy, Lindelof, Rojo, etc
You'd think he'd be one of the few that this formation suits, but no evidence of that so far.
No doubt we'll cling to the "can't judge anyone while it's all a mess" excuse for a bit longer.
No doubt we'll cling to the "can't judge anyone while it's all a mess" excuse for a bit longer.
Not sure any of those had a cracking first season? Decent spells but never any sort of length.
Agree. He has good forward passes, but every other team have CBs who can hit those passes as well. And he is often painfully slow on the ball, just like all our CBs. We need to move around the ball quicker at the back.
Not good enough. If those Madrid rumours are true, sell him.
How much do Madrid want to give us for him again?
He is a left-footed defender. We have so few of those around. If he really is a bad fit he should go. But he would be further down the sell list in relation to Malacia and Shaw (if we can get money for him).
He needs to be dropped for the game against Wolves. Evans in please.
Good post, and the big problem he has is that the position he now plays asks so many questions of his defensive reading of the game - especially in lieu of his athletic limitations - and anticipation to cover for it, or not make a molehill a mountain, that it exposes him and highlights the things he isn't good at, or might even be better to say, things he's bad at.
He needs the security of a full-back flanking and taking care of wide attackers. He's our worst equipped CB to deal with direct 1-on-1's or covering vast amounts of space. It's actually making him doubt himself because he's fully aware of his own flaws and is not comfortable with stick or twist.
A back 3 leaves him nowhere to play; he isn't a central CB due to his poor reading of the game in front of him and that wide LCB berth is just going to expose him more and more, especially now that teams are cottoning on to targeting either him, or his side of the pitch for an easy/easier in.
Quite a few are mentioning he needs to be at the very top of his game to cope. I fear injuries have robbed him of the extra level he initially came here with and he doesn't have tools to compensate for it. When you're already disadvantaged in a position, you've no margin for error. His height being an issue is overblown, but what all the legendary small CB's have is extraordinary facets to their game, be it: the salmon leap; impeccable agility; peak levels of anticipatory action; mindblowing speed and short burst acceleration; robust, tank like physiques - they all have their lane and a defensive edge that Martinez does not. Baresi, Passarella, Cordoba, Ayala, Cannavaro, Puyol, Mascherano, Chumpitaz... the list can extend, but the properties won't and even those who weren't athletic specimens in their own way, had a level of anticipation and reading of play that negated and countered problems at source. Martinez does not.
Height only becomes an issue when it becomes an issue and before that, it's a load of cliches and almost prejudices, but you cannot be slow, short, lacking agility and be a poor reader of play or have reduced anticipation all wrapped up in a short player in such a crucial position where he will be primed for targeting. The set piece issues are extensions of the wider issue, and again show he doesn't have that sixth sense for where to be and what to do that the aforementioned above did to really offset being short.
The 3-man backline is the death of Martinez here, I feel. The player he came here as pre-injury might have stood a chance, but this one, with the physical limitations he has is a nomad, and with a fully fit Shaw, wouldn't get any playing time. I think he's going to be one of the first out the door come the summer.
Funny. A succinct version.
I like Martinez but he is one of many players who shouldn’t be anywhere near the starting 11 if we ever want to get back to even competing for the top four again let alone try and challenge for trophies.
Weren't Lindelof and Rojo pretty much dire from the start?
Lindelof and Rojo were never good.
He should have been tighter to his man on the 3rd goal and it isnt the first time hes made a mistake like that
However I dont think he played poorly overall. If you're a CB in a 3 and you've made 6 tackles, 4 clearances and 1 blocked shot then you've done quite well and have been asked to do too much. The other CBs has nowhere near that
However I dont think he played poorly overall. If you're a CB in a 3 and you've made 6 tackles, 4 clearances and 1 blocked shot then you've done quite well and have been asked to do too much. The other CBs has nowhere near that
Agreed.
What happened to him. Has been good for a season but since then so far away from any kind of form. Plus he has become very prone to mistakes
Lindelof had a cracking first season?
Awful again yesterday, but that's been his mean for a long time now.
Looks to have lost all fight, coupled with the mistakes it is like carrying a player.
Hopefully snaps out of it soon.
Looks to have lost all fight, coupled with the mistakes it is like carrying a player.
Hopefully snaps out of it soon.
Agreed fully and it’s frustrating because for all of his faults, he’s probably the “most successful” ETH signing yet he’s another that doesn’t fit into future plans.
Bummer because I do think he’s world class on the ball as a progressor and he’s very fun to watch, but that’s not enough especially in the PL when the team isn’t keeping the ball like prime Barca and physical traits are so important where he ends up being a liability. It ends up being a net negative ultimately.
His best position is centrally, in a four his lack of height is covered by playing next to someone good in the air. In a three, he's too small for the central position, he's too slow for the wider position. I still think there's a player there, just needs to play in the formation that suits his limitations. Amorim has a set way of playing and unfortunately it doesn't suit him. His trajectory reminds me a bit of Heinze when he came. He started off well, player of the season in his first season, we loved his aggression then got injured and never really got his place back, although Evra signing didn't help that.
I like Martinez but he’s an ideal candidate for the club being proactive and cashing in whilst he’s still got somewhat of a reputation and a few years in him.
He may go on to do well at a Barca or Real where the demands are not so extreme and constant and he gets to exhibit his passing and incisiveness more often, but he’s got a serious uphill battle here and we don’t have the means to carry anyone, let alone a player in a crucial position. The back 3 just feels like the death of him.
Wonder what his value is on the open market. CV is pretty good that maybe a big club will bite and we get most of his fee back
To be fair, all of our players are performing terrible at the moment. I think he is a good player and we would do well to keep him.
He has some credit in the bank with me but if a good enough offer arrives, we should sell IMO.
He's absolutely rubbish. I'm sick of the obsession with ball playing defenders, bring back no nonsense defenders like Vidic that's what we need.
I agree that ge doesn’t fit this system but I think his best role would be in the middle of the 3. He struggles defending the channels and when he gets pulled wide. This would eliminate that. His aerial ability as a middle of the three would be no different than if he were playing in a back two and nobody had a problem with that. The only issue I see is that it eliminates a lot of what makes him great on the ball and in possession. And we have nobody that’s better to play the LCB role. Moving De Ligt over there doesn’t make sense.
He doesn’t seem to be loving the 3 at the back formation which is surprising…maybe just teething problems.
Shaw is better suited for the role but can't stay fit. Martinez isn't going to do well playing in the middle as he's not great in the air and we'd make the left a bigger issue if we moved him centrally. So he's going to look bad until he's replaced by someone more suited. I think his days are numbered, like many others if United stick with Ruben.
The fans at Real and Barca demand more. They are always expected to win the title and challenge in Europe. I however do agree that he'll be less hurried on the ball
Yep, I agree. He is not a good defender. Admirable attitude and decent on the ball but not good enough.
He wasnt very good in a back 4 either though, for a long while at least
Vidic was a more than just a no nonsense defender, he was very good on the ball.
You need both, the best defenders have nearly always been highly capable on the ball. It's not something you can really compromise on in today's game.
Martinez is brilliant on the ball, but his defensive qualities are being questioned, perhaps it's because he's trying to do too much, maybe the left side of a 3 doesn't suit him. Either way he needs to pull his head out of his arse and improve the defensive side of his game or he'll be shipped out.
Everyone is going in on Martinez now and it's fair game but I'm not sure I would agree with the bolded. His main issues right now as you've highlighted are his lack of incision with his passing in that LCB position, tackling, management of open space and aerials on set pieces. In the middle just like his days in a back four, he's shown more than good enough qualities imo. The issue is whether it's good enough Amorim and whether he'll get a chance there.
In open play, Martinez is smart at influencing aerials so that the opponent doesn't do much/can't direct it well. When the play is in front of him, his anticipation and aggressive tackling can work because he'll be in the central areas of the pitch i.e the two wide CBs will be mostly dealing with the first defensive actions in the channels. He's a good box defender (despite recent showings) and covers well just outside of the penalty area; his inconsistency is mostly in the wider areas. The only consistent issue I have with him in that CCB role is aerials on set pieces.
It's gamble but one worth trying imo because de Ligt or Maguire aren't exactly perfect themselves.
Mazraoui, Martinez and Shaw?
Super small but not like we're winning any aerials from set pieces right now anyways but that's a pretty good back three on the ball. I'd have Ugarte and Casemiro in front of them with Dalot as RWB. The latter two have good height and jumping power so along with Hojlund (if Amorim tells him, he can actually jump upwards and not just from the same spot) would help mitigate some of the aerial situations.