Lisandro Martinez image 6

Lisandro Martinez Argentina flag

2024-25 Performances

View full 2024-25 profile

5.5 Season Average Rating
Appearances
9
Clean sheets
3
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
4
OldSchoolManc said:
He would be best employed as a DM in front of a back four. It’s too chaotic to tell what’s going on with the defence right now
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Why do people keep suggesting this? He's slow and physicality over matched as a CB, so why would he succeed in a position where covering ground and tackling in space in paramount?
The only way he can do this role, is if he's playing in a double pivot next to a physical defensive monster.

Part of the reason he's struggling right now is because him and DeLigt are quite similar in a way. Both front foot aggressive centre backs that are slow on the turn. What they need is a physical athlete to read and react to the space they leave behind. Yoro is a better partner for them than they are for each other. I suspect this why Ineos wanted Branthwaite.
 
He started his United career in such a promising manner. But obviously that's never going to last at this club
 
Just me that thinks he looks on the heavy side? As though he's bulked up too much during his rehab... Can hardly run.
 
He's not even the shadow of the player he was on his first season here. He's slow, his aggressiveness is stupid now challenging on situations he shouldnt and losing duels for fun. He was the most likeable player from the squad and suddenly he turned into shit, even his passing is not good anymore. What the feck do we do to players?
 
If he isn't injured, then he is going to lose his position in the team. What happened? He is/was my favourite player in the United team.
 
My favorite player but can't make excuses he's playing terribly right now. I think Harry comes in now. Some time on the bench will be good I hope.
 
He’s been terrible, probably needs taken out for a while. Out of position countless times, lazy, ball watching just making terrible decisions.

In some ways I can see why he is dilly dallying on the ball but if no one is moving or showing for it then just keep it moving.
 
He's been poor, his passing isn't being utilised because the midfield isn't able to pick up passes through the lines, the 325 in the build up last night meant they were too easy to pin and block off any options. There was no rotation or movement in midfield, just 2 lads standing sqaure with no intention of looking for the ball.

But it doesn't matter who is at CB, when the midfield is wide open they'll struggle. Not sure why he steps up for their 3rd goal, Dalot was pushed up the wing and it left a huge gap for their player to run into.

He really needs to pull his finger out.
 
Marcus said:
If he isn't injured, then he is going to lose his position in the team. What happened? He is/was my favourite player in the United team.
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He isn't actually that good, his main strengths are being overly aggressive and a shithouse. But he is physically lacking in pace, strength and height. He is good on the ball mainly at passes through the lines but if you don't press him and block the passing lanes he can't use it.

Him a de ligt are essentially Maguire and lindelof only slightly better on the ball but worse at actual defending.
 
When the midfield is so slow and detached from the rest of the team our defenders will always be exposed. Too many gaps and easy to play through leaves our centre backs on the back foot often. It’s not sustainable as shown by results and the up and down performances even during games.
 
FrankWhite said:
Why do people keep suggesting this? He's slow and physicality over matched as a CB, so why would he succeed in a position where covering ground and tackling in space in paramount?
The only way he can do this role, is if he's playing in a double pivot next to a physical defensive monster.

Part of the reason he's struggling right now is because him and DeLigt are quite similar in a way. Both front foot aggressive centre backs that are slow on the turn. What they need is a physical athlete to read and react to the space they leave behind. Yoro is a better partner for them than they are for each other. I suspect this why Ineos wanted Branthwaite.
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Because your assessment of what is needed to be a good DM is wrong. He would be a great DM. If there is any position where physical attributes are less important than brain and ability to read games and control tempo, it is defensive midfield. Especially sitting DMs, which is what he would be asked to do.

I've been saying it from time and its starting to show now. He is not a true CB and never has been. Period.
 
Prob unhappy at how he was asked to return from Argentina early or something he’s not trying.
 
Hes been poor this season no doubts there, but no chance he should be being written off. His first season here showed what a top class player he can be in the right setup.
 
I don’t think Dalot playing at LB and being asked to invert has helped either Dalot or Martinez.
 
Dannn411 said:
Because your assessment of what is needed to be a good DM is wrong. He would be a great DM. If there is any position where physical attributes are less important than brain and ability to read games and control tempo, it is defensive midfield. Especially sitting DMs, which is what he would be asked to do.

I've been saying it from time and its starting to show now. He is not a true CB and never has been. Period.
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I don’t think he would be a good DM in a Ten Hag system, it requires too much running and covering spaces. He hasn’t got the pace
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Hes been poor this season no doubts there, but no chance he should be being written off. His first season here showed what a top class player he can be in the right setup.
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Yes but isn’t that Gab Heinze at United too. Brilliant first season, lacking afterwards and replaced with Evra. Hes turning into Heinze
 
Is it really the foot injury that's made him lose a yard of pace? Or to lose concentration? Seems hard to believe. Maybe a subconscious mental barrier to push himself 100% if anything.
I still think he can get back to his best.
 
LordSpud said:
Think the injuries have killed him
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This is an overused catch-all excuse for any player who is suddenly found out or has a poor run of form. He only had a broken metatarsal. That's not an injury that should cause a drop-off in physical output once healed.

Once again...I express concerns about a player and question the wisdom of hailing them as the Messiah when they have quite obvious deficiencies....I initially get absolutely savaged...and then a few months later...my doubts start to become the consensus.

Once again...let's be clear...Martinez is a good CB....but is he elite? Is he world-class? Does he suit this system? I'd probably answer "no" to all of those questions. Does it matter that he's small and slow? I'd say "yes it does", why handicap yourself if you don't need to? I'd take a good defender who's tall, fast and strong over a good defender who's short and slow every single time.
 
I love Licha and he’s proven to be a top player but he needs resting/dropping his performances have been poor
 
golden_blunder said:
I don’t think he would be a good DM in a Ten Hag system, it requires too much running and covering spaces. He hasn’t got the pace
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Agreed. In Ten Hag's system, he would be inadequate because of the ground he would have to cover as a midfielder but Ten Hag's system is a dumpster fire system. In a normal system with a normal coach, he would be a more than adequate DM.
 
Hilarious that he showed half a season of good form and anyone who expressed doubts was shouted down. Now 2 years later and it's looking like there might have been merit to those doubts.
 
It's not the players. Nearly every player we sign starts pretty well and falls off a cliff.

IMO it has to be down to fitness and tactics. All our players seem to become sluggish and lazy and then the tactics also dampen what talents they do have.
 
Robindinho said:
Just me that thinks he looks on the heavy side? As though he's bulked up too much during his rehab... Can hardly run.
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Not sure if I've noticed it with Martinez specifically but it feels like a fair wedge of our players beef up after a year or so of being here.
 
Seveneric said:
Hilarious that he showed half a season of good form and anyone who expressed doubts was shouted down. Now 2 years later and it's looking like there might have been merit to those doubts.
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Yeah, everyone should just whinge about everyone and everything at all times just to be safe, even when we/they are playing well.
 
If you take a look at his picture at the top of the thread, he looks so much leaner in his face. He didn't struggle for physicality in the first place, not sure why he's bulked up. Makes even less sense considering that surely it would place extra load on the foot he had broken, given that's the foot he turns on.
 
Robindinho said:
Just me that thinks he looks on the heavy side? As though he's bulked up too much during his rehab... Can hardly run.
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Just posted the same thing! Agreed. I don't expect its too much body fat either, but his face looks bigger too. Suggests some sort of steroid use, although I expect most footballers across the league are on some sort of PED.
 
Lentwood said:
This is an overused catch-all excuse for any player who is suddenly found out or has a poor run of form. He only had a broken metatarsal. That's not an injury that should cause a drop-off in physical output once healed.

Once again...I express concerns about a player and question the wisdom of hailing them as the Messiah when they have quite obvious deficiencies....I initially get absolutely savaged...and then a few months later...my doubts start to become the consensus.

Once again...let's be clear...Martinez is a good CB....but is he elite? Is he world-class? Does he suit this system? I'd probably answer "no" to all of those questions. Does it matter that he's small and slow? I'd say "yes it does", why handicap yourself if you don't need to? I'd take a good defender who's tall, fast and strong over a good defender who's short and slow every single time.
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Don't get me wrong - you're right - he's always been a player with fundamental inherent flaws by being short and on the slower side for his position.

But he does (did?) have some elite level attributes that meant you'd put up with those shortcomings -- his ability on the ball, holding the ball under pressure, and he was(?) a very good stopper who would have really good timing to win his tackles.

Now those traits seem to have dissipated, you're left with a guy who has those fundamental flaws without the good stuff he once offered.
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If you imagine every player was rated on a scale of 1 to 10 as if it were FM or FIFA stats -- Martinez had a few sub 3~ rating stats in his pace, height, and aerial ability, but then also had a few 9+ stats in his strengths.

Ideally you'd probably prefer a guy who is a 7+ in everything (like, say, a fully fit Varane).
 


This is what I have been talking about. A simple mistake from Lisandro Martinez and suddenly their wingers have open space to drag our CB. This system relies on our CB not misplacing any pass at all. A simple long ball intercepted can punish us!.

Puts a lot of pressure on Rashford as well as his defensive workrate becomes very important here. This tactic does not suit Rashford at all.
 
Martinez and Dalot are being targeted as a weak point in the team, ETH should try swap the fullbacks round and/or adjusting the midfield to help them. Persisting isn't helping anyone.
 
I like his attitude but I've never felt like he's the level required due to his lack of pace and height. However, it's not his fault that ETH sets the team up in a way that constantly exposes Martinez' weaknesses.

It really shows how clueless ETH. He worked with Martinez for years and brought him here - yet, he seem oblivious to how to get the best out of him (and the other players he signed).
 
The only CBs that can defend the way ETH set up his team would be prime Rio, VVD and some more limited but very fast defenders. As a CB he now has to deal with strikers and wingers alike, and he has to cover his man and Dalot’s, as Dalot isn’t even trying to play as a LB in this system.

Yeah, he lost a foot race against a faster player, but why is he forced to defend those channels alone every feckin match? We complain if a fullback has to defend without his winger, but we complain when Martinez has to defend against wingers and/or strikers without any support and having to try to cut off passing lanes as only De Ligt is trying to defend the box. It’s Suicide Squad without Margot Robbie or a good plot.
 
pratyush_utd said:


This is what I have been talking about. A simple mistake from Lisandro Martinez and suddenly their wingers have open space to drag our CB. This system relies on our CB not misplacing any pass at all. A simple long ball intercepted can punish us!.

Puts a lot of pressure on Rashford as well as his defensive workrate becomes very important here. This tactic does not suit Rashford at all.
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That photo is the problem in a nutshell, and you could take 50 like that from any one of our games when we're in possession.

The gap between the passer and the receiver is huge. That increases the likelihood that we'll lose the ball and also decreases the likelihood that we win it back quickly before the opposition can launch a counter.

If that's not all damning enough...even if Martinez successfully makes the long pass in that scenario, how does it hurt Porto? They're not worried about it, he's wide and isolated and whilst the ball is travelling 50m, they can engage Rashford and stop him turning / running into space. So it's high risk, low reward.

It really really is frighteningly basic stuff. If it later transpired that EtH was deliberately handicapping us for some reason that would make more sense to me now than whatever it is he's trying to achieve tactically.
 
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