Life after ETH — the next United manager

[KeanoMagicHat]

I think people were perfectly justified in wanting ETH. He was a legit target. Thing is learning not to fall in love with these guys if they show they aren’t up to it. He should have been sacked in February of last season.

I think the club needs to detach itself more from managers in general, just treat them as someone playing a role instead of this hero cult of personality figure that defines the club. The other thing is there are so many managers out there, like a revolving door, you get someone in, they do okay or not, you move on. Managers can also do a bad job somewhere like Flick at Germany and still be a good manager in the right circumstances. Shouldn't be seen as precious as it is.

 

[Insanity]

Potter is right next to Southgate in terms of horrendous replacements imo. They're both just as bad if not worse (Southgate certainly is) than Erik, so what would be the point?

INEOS have dropped the ball massively imo. I understand why they elected to trigger his extension after the FA Cup win and interviewing various managers in the Summer, but realistically they should've taken all of their emotions out of the picture and made the correct decision. We finished 8th last season, 8th. Our worst ever finish in Premier League history. We also finished with -1 GD across 38 games. It was absolutely shambolic. I was done with Erik after the Crystal Palace pasting but again, like INEOS, gave him the benefit of the doubt after the FA Cup but still had him on thin ice and ready to relight the torches and grab the pitchforks if I didn't see a single bit of improvement after yet another Summer and another £100m+ spent.

Fast forward to the Brighton game and I was preparing the pitchforks and getting the matches ready and what happens? Liverpool, 3-0, on our patch. Torches lit and pitchfork in hand, the thin ice had caved and it was time to go.

The writing has been on the wall since the start of last season. Our 22/23 season we finished 3rd, but that was also the year that Rashford hit his best ever season, which earned him 30+ goals all comps. Those two things matter and shouldn't be forgotten. Of course, the following season Rashford returns to his true self, which is 8-11 goals in the league and we finish 8th.

We need to be looking at hiring a well established coach that has a good system, good man management skills and good with the press. The notion that there is no one out there better than Nagelsmann is absolute drivel. Look at what Hurzeler is doing for Brighton, or what Emery has done at Villa. We need a manager that will come in and not be afraid to get his hands dirty and that will make the right decisions when it comes to certain players (Rashford, Shaw, Antony, Mount all need to go) and dropping them to the bench when needed. There are too many players here that have seen multiple managers and they're part of the toxic culture and problem that exists at this club and they need fleshing out and we need the RIGHT manager at the helm to do it.

I don't disagree with any of it. However, that manager you are talking about might not be available in the middle of the season. That's why I think we should get an interim/caretaker till the end of the season as I don't want to write this season off already. This is still early and we should be able to get something out of it.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I'm actually a bit underwhelmed with the decision now that it has come.

1) It should have been at the end of last season, FA Cup or no FA Cup.
2) We lost the last game because of poor shooting and poor reffing, it wasn't a total embarrassment. So it seems like a bit of an odd day to do it.
3) We have all known for months and months, if not longer, that ETH had to go and INEOS sack him without a replacement in place.

It seems very amateurish and disorganized. INEOS promised best in the world football club management but this isn't it. Sacking ETH without a replacement being immediately in place is just poor organization, which doesn't give me any confidence that the next stage of their decision making process will be any better.

They probably said something to the effect of ETH needing 2 wins out of the next 3 games, come hell our high water. So injuries, force majeure, fiendish bent referees, diabolical finishing - none of that would factor in as an excuse: you win or you're out.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I think the club needs to detach itself more from managers in general, just treat them as someone playing a role instead of this hero cult of personality figure that defines the club. The other thing is there are so many managers out there, like a revolving door, you get someone in, they do okay or not, you move on. Managers can also do a bad job somewhere like Flick at Germany and still be a good manager in the right circumstances. Shouldn't be seen as precious as it is.

Yep. We are the only club that treats the position of United manager as sacred. The attitude of many towards Tuchel being a good example of that

 

[BeepBeepImAJeep]

I would 100% go for Thomas Frank. Has Brentford playing way above their level in the league now for 2 or 3 years. Seems to get his players playing to their ceiling. Plays decent football. Speaks perfect English. Recruitment has been really good at Brentford too.

Amorim looks to tick the right boxes as well (although not sure how well he speaks English, I doubt as well as Frank), just think Frank's experience in the league makes him the better appointment.

 

[AndyMUFC]

None of this interim manager nonsense again please. Let's try and appoint a permanent manager mid season for the first time.

I know more managers might be available in the summer, but then more clubs are looking at managers at the same time. This season has only just started, and it would be really good for a new boss to get 6 months or so to assess everything and implement their style while the expectations are reduced slightly. You're just wasting time otherwise, and sending a bad message to the players and fans that this season doesn't really matter.

 

[satish_united]

I really hope its not Potter or Southgate.
Amorim - seem city bound (unless they are relegated)
Nagelsmann - i dont see him leaving german role as it stands.

Emery would be nice. a proper coach for once and some one whos not past his peak.

 

[RopersReturn]

Whoever it is will have a mountain to climb and that’s IF we can even attract a reputable coach with a decent record at club level.

The successful candidate will not only be inheriting a squad of ETH/Ole players but working with the owners from hell.

 

[Rasmus_9]

Above all else, I want a manager with charisma, someone that will bring everyone on board. Someone like Pep or Klopp. We are a massive beast and only very few managers have the personality to cope.

 

[Rasmus_9]

None of this interim manager nonsense again please. Let's try and appoint a permanent manager mid season for the first time.

I know more managers might be available in the summer, but then more clubs are looking at managers at the same time. This season has only just started, and it would be really good for a new boss to get 6 months or so to assess everything and implement their style while the expectations are reduced slightly. You're just wasting time otherwise, and sending a bad message to the players and fans that this season doesn't really matter.

The glaring problem with this is that the top managers currently working for major clubs, will not up and leave mid season. It would rule out the likes of Alonso, Amorim and probably Nangelsmann

 

[sparx99]

Above all else, I want a manager with charisma, someone that will bring everyone on board. Someone like Pep or Klopp. We are a massive beast and only very few managers have the personality to cope.

It's absolutely a job that needs personality. ETH and Ole both lacked that. Mourinho and LVG both had it but at a stage in their careers where they'd lost some charm. I think this has been where Zidane has appealed over the years even though his managerial career is so limited. He might only have worked for Madrid at that specific moment in time with those huge stars to manage.

It's been noticeable how many fans instantly gravitated to Ruud again. Seeing him fired up on the touchline really highlighted ETH's lack of fire and attitude. I don't us to get caught up in the romance as we did with appointing Ole but who knows maybe Ruud is an elite coach in waiting.

 

[Client6]

I am relieved he is gone. United have played the worst football I have seen in my lifetime under EtH. He should have never started the season.

The League is the bread-and-butter. Period. EtH was clearly unable to hold his own against PL opposition with his new system. I have never seen United be the underdogs in so many games in a single season. The fact that United were not clear favourites to win most games regardless of opposition, competition, or stadium is an indictment of EtH's managerial performance. Just about every team fancied themselves against us and that cannot be happening.

Maybe it's just me but I thought EtH setup the team differently against Brentford, maybe because he knew he was close to getting the sack and he had to get results anyhow. United have looked so much better since that game and yesterday should have been a deserved win. God knows why it took him so long to change the style. It also indicates how the team seems to play better when they are fired up.

EtH mentioned that "anger" led the team to come out more determined in the second half against Brentford. This is why I don't buy into the idea that he had the players playing for him. I think the players were playing more for themselves and for each other. I am a billion times less qualified than EtH, but as anyone who has played football at a decent level can probably testify, tactics can only get you so far if you do not have the players willing to run through brick walls for you. I can recollect what players under Clough, SAF, Klopp, Pep etc have said - they mentioned how they didn't want to let the manager down. I don't think EtH had the necessary charisma and the people management skills to inspire the players, and especially to rally the troops after a defeat. We don't have the visibility into what goes on inside the dressing room but you only got to look at his interviews to guess that he may be quite dull and/or unapproachable. I think the fact that we had to resort to showing a video montage of players's higlights to pump them up before the FA Cup final against your local rivals is not the best thing.

All this brings me to what I think we should look for in our next manager: attacking, entertaining football, focus on youth and Academy (and I daresay at least British if not Mancunian) players, and ability to build some real character and steel into the team. Football need not be too complex, and I couldn't care less if we resort to counter-attacking against technically more superior sides like City. But the bottom line is that the team should be able to go toe-to-toe with any opposition on the planet and only focussing on tactics/system/philosophy - call it whatever you want - will not guarantee that. I am not sure who fits the criteria but don't think Xavi is the answer.

 

[Rodgerzzz]

I would 100% go for Thomas Frank. Has Brentford playing way above their level in the league now for 2 or 3 years. Seems to get his players playing to their ceiling. Plays decent football. Speaks perfect English. Recruitment has been really good at Brentford too.

Amorim looks to tick the right boxes as well (although not sure how well he speaks English, I doubt as well as Frank), just think Frank's experience in the league makes him the better appointment.

I would agree that Thomas Frank is a decent candidate, we've got to be honest about where we are right now and the type of character we need to get the team playing effective football again. I don't think without his influence Brentford would be as secure a PL outfit as they currently are.

On the other hand though Potter is a great example of a mid table PL manager stepping into a bigger environment at Chelsea and flopping harder than a wet mattress falling of a balcony.

 

[Silverman]

It has to be a very very strong individual with a clear style of play. I am leaning towards Nagelsmann or Inzaghi but both aren't very likely imo.

 

[lsd]

Well we know not to listen to the people who voted for Ten Hag last time.

 

[Stobzilla]

Well we know not to listen to the people who voted for Ten Hag last time.

Based on his Ajax side and the football he was playing there, he was a stand out candidate. He just chucked all of that in the bin as soon as he turned up, how do you even legislate for that as a club?

 

[RedWilliam]

Glad it finally happened, but weird timing. Should have done it much earlier. Like after the Tottenham match... Also weird to give him a new contact only to kick hin out a couple of months later. Whats even worse is we missed Tuchel. Really hard to see a clear choice dor next manager. I think it will be interesting to see how the team responds to Ruud being the man for a while. Really don't think Xavi is the right one. Much better player than a manager. Maybe Zidane can be convinced for the rest of the season?

 

[Dansk]

Whoever it is, I imagine they'll face all the same problems as every other post-SAF manager, and then the fans will declare him an incompetent imbecile and he'll get sacked and then the cycle repeats itself yet again.

 

[sparx99]

I am relieved he is gone. United have played the worst football I have seen in my lifetime under EtH. He should have never started the season.

The League is the bread-and-butter. Period. EtH was clearly unable to hold his own against PL opposition with his new system. I have never seen United be the underdogs in so many games in a single season. The fact that United were not clear favourites to win most games regardless of opposition, competition, or stadium is an indictment of EtH's managerial performance. Just about every team fancied themselves against us and that cannot be happening.

Maybe it's just me but I thought EtH setup the team differently against Brentford, maybe because he knew he was close to getting the sack and he had to get results anyhow. United have looked so much better since that game and yesterday should have been a deserved win. God knows why it took him so long to change the style. It also indicates how the team seems to play better when they are fired up.

EtH mentioned that "anger" led the team to come out more determined in the second half against Brentford. This is why I don't buy into the idea that he had the players playing for him. I think the players were playing more for themselves and for each other. I am a billion times less qualified than EtH, but as anyone who has played football at a decent level can probably testify, tactics can only get you so far if you do not have the players willing to run through brick walls for you. I can recollect what players under Clough, SAF, Klopp, Pep etc have said - they mentioned how they didn't want to let the manager down. I don't think EtH had the necessary charisma and the people management skills to inspire the players, and especially to rally the troops after a defeat. We don't have the visibility into what goes on inside the dressing room but you only got to look at his interviews to guess that he may be quite dull and/or unapproachable. I think the fact that we had to resort to showing a video montage of players's higlights to pump them up before the FA Cup final against your local rivals is not the best thing.

All this brings me to what I think we should look for in our next manager: attacking, entertaining football, focus on youth and Academy (and I daresay at least British if not Mancunian) players, and ability to build some real character and steel into the team. Football need not be too complex, and I couldn't care less if we resort to counter-attacking against technically more superior sides like City. But the bottom line is that the team should be able to go toe-to-toe with any opposition on the planet and only focussing on tactics/system/philosophy - call it whatever you want - will not guarantee that. I am not sure who fits the criteria but don't think Xavi is the answer.

I think sometimes people have made out that the players weren't playing for Erik suggesting they were being unprofessional. I don't think they were being unprofessional but like you have said they weren't inspired. They weren't fired up. They didn't truly believe in the plan and therefore they weren't 100% bought in.

 

[Swordsman]

That's what the supposedly best-in-class structure is here for - to find out. I said my preferences - Nagelsmann and Inzaghi. Maybe Zidane, although I think that's a no-go, but who knows? Tuchel before, but that ship sailed due to INEOS's indolence. Amorim, maybe.

All I know is Xavi and Frank aren't it. Xavi did well enough at Barcelona, but not really wildly successful, and they were quite dull to watch more often than not. I can't handle that again after Ten Hag. Besides, his style demands quality passing and control, which is probably the absolute worst attribute of this United squad. Players like Bruno Fernandes, Ugarte, Rashford, Dalot, amongst others, just can't do that. And it would be pretty worrisome if INEOS get him after extending Fernandes, not selling Rashford, and bringing Ugarte. These are not Xavi players and it suggest complete lack of planning.

Frank just isn't a top manager. He belongs where he is and is doing fine there. I'd take Xavi ahead of him if given the choice.

Why Nagelsmann want to ditch his national team for us ?? even he is interested in joining us.. it will be after 2026 world cup unless he perform poorly in the qualifiers. Zidane.. close to impossible.. if he really wanted to join, he won't join at this time.

 

[Swordsman]

If we wait for a big name then we're either gonna have to pay a big amount or wait until the end of the season.
That means we have to play 75% of the season with an interim manager.
If that interim does well, then we may not go for our main target.

Not sacking Ten Hag at the end of last season has created such a big problem that only splashing out large amounts of money, that will effect our transfer kitty, will be able to fix.

ole 2.0 route again ?

 

[TrustInOle]

If it could be anyone of the list, I would love Emery, if not I'd go for T.Frank, 2 managers with over achievements in the league already and the pedigree would surely give them a better jump off point than most.

 

[mythz]

Buy out Iraola tonight.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

For what it's worth the United fans near me like the idea of Xavi.
That picture of his kid in a United top has been a PR triumph for someone.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Who's career have we ended?

Old Trafford has been primarily a Player and managerial graveyard since SAF retired. Few players leave with United not being a blight on their career.

 

[Mart1974]

I've warmed to the idea of Thomas Frank or even Marco Silva.

We will get Fat Frank or Silvo Berlisconi

 

[Teja]

What's the history for how often an established manager leaves their club mid-season to go take a "bigger" job? I don't really think it's a thing and that leaves us with people out of work or on international assignments currently.

 

[FrenchRed]

I'd love to see Thomas Frank given a chance.

 

[Lash]

Selfishly want Frank as I had a flutter on him in the summer at a massive price, so that's still running. The chat about cost is concerning, it's not like you can truly negotiate payouts for managers. Especially when you see what Mareseca went for.

 

[GreatDane]

Amorim or Inzaghi, and I'll be willing to wait for them.

 

[sparx99]

Why Nagelsmann want to ditch his national team for us ?? even he is interested in joining us.. it will be after 2026 world cup unless he perform poorly in the qualifiers. Zidane.. close to impossible.. if he really wanted to join, he won't join at this time.

Nagelsmann might prefer to be at a club. He's awfully young to be managing a national side and it's a pretty boring job for football managers.

 

[Teja]

Selfishly want Frank as I had a flutter on him in the summer at a massive price, so that's still running. The chat about cost is concerning, it's not like you can truly negotiate payouts for managers. Especially when you see what Mareseca went for.

What's the number? A random Yahoo sports link says 9-10M release clause.

I'd think Brentford are one of the more sensible clubs to talk to for these things. I wouldn't be surprised if they had 3 other candidates lined up to replace Frank already after the rumors this summer.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Thomas Frank is a very good coach. What he has done at little Brentford is astonishing really. Has the personality to do it. Gets best out of non-entity players. Tactically astute. Can he manage egos? Can he step up to a big club? Well that may be the downside but then nobody fits perfectly. I wouldn't be against him. Certainly a better vet for me than a Southgate or Potter albeit rewires compensation payment as he I'd contacted to summer 2027. But won't be on megabucks.
If we can give comp for Dan Ashworth then we should go for it. He will realistically come too. Other big names mentioned aren't a shoe-in.

Agree.

Either our squad isn’t good enough or ETH didn’t manage to get the best out of them. I think it’s the latter, but in any case Frank has the solution. He gets his players to overperform in most games.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Anything on socials from our fraud players?

 

[saivet]

Luckhurst mentions Ole. Please God no.

I hope this is nonsense (which I suspect it is). The club could have sacked him for less in the summer and they also would have had more options available than they do now, including other free agents. As much as I wanted him sack, now is a bad time for planning. A lot of the guys that were available in the summer are no longer available and less likely to leave their current jobs.

As far as I was concerned, I fully expected ETH to be sacked by Christmas when he got his extension. Having RVN in place does help but how good is he? Him taking over on an interim until the end of the season feels like a scenario we'll end up in unless a top candidate is willing to join now.

 

[Teja]

I hope this is nonsense (which I suspect it is). The club could have sacked him for less in the summer and they also would have had more options available than they do now, including other free agents. As much as I wanted him sack, now is a bad time for planning. A lot of the guys that were available in the summer are no longer available and less likely to leave their current jobs.

As far as I was concerned, I fully expected ETH to be sacked by Christmas when he got his extension. Having RVN in place does help but how good is he? Him taking over on an interim until the end of the season feels like a scenario we'll end up in unless a top candidate is willing to join now.

It's obviously not nonsense. Anyone with half a brain could've seen that this was a possibility when we triggered the +1 on his contract. We were already in violation of FFP and have to look for allowances to stay compliant. They'd have to pay Ten Hag to sack (13.5M GBP by current reports) and pay a club like Brentford 10m for Frank. We don't have the money right now to pull all that off.

And all of this assuming an established manager even wants to ditch their team and come to this mess in the first place. They'd have no transfer backing and will be stuck with whatever squad they're given.

It'll be someone along the lines of Xavi / OGS / Potter / Southgate. I can only hope they're hired on an interim basis and we'll fix the permanent situation next summer. The only wildcard is Nagelsmann if we can manage to convince him to come here. We'll sort out the permanent manager position and also the compensation to get out of the contract won't be very high.

 

[saivet]

It's obviously not nonsense. Anyone with half a brain could've seen that this was a possibility when we triggered the +1 on his contract. We were already in violation of FFP and have to look for allowances to stay compliant. They'd have to pay Ten Hag to sack (13.5M GBP by current reports) and pay a club like Brentford 10m for Frank. We don't have the money right now to pull all that off.

And all of this assuming an established manager even wants to ditch their team and come to this mess in the first place. They'd have no transfer backing and will be stuck with whatever squad they're given.

It'll be someone along the lines of Xavi / OGS / Potter / Southgate. I can only hope they're hired on an interim basis and we'll fix the permanent situation next summer. The only wildcard is Nagelsmann if we can manage to convince him to come here. We'll sort out the permanent manager position and also the compensation to get out of the contract won't be very high.

What makes you think that? Have their been any reports about what it might cost to get him?

I can imagine the German FA fighting hard to keep hold of him (unless Klopp gives them the green light and ditches his Red Bull job).

 

[Lash]

What's the number? A random Yahoo sports link says 9-10M release clause.

I'd think Brentford are one of the more sensible clubs to talk to for these things. I wouldn't be surprised if they had 3 other candidates lined up to replace Frank already after the rumors this summer.

Yeah, Frank isn't a problem. I don't think he's the best candidate though. I imagine Nagelsmann, Amorim, etc have much higher fees.

I personally prefer Iraola and I think it will be the same with him, due to his recent extension.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[CraftySoAndSo]

I’d like to see Iraola but he extended in the summer so very unlikely. Nagelsmann would be exciting but can’t see him leaving Germany just now. Feels like we’ve got to go all out for Amorim or Inzaghi. Hoeness seems to be promising as well.

Links to Thomas Frank are a bit weird when you see the other names banded about.

I have a sneaky suspicion it’ll be Graham Potter. Which would be really underwhelming. Think we need a stronger personality.

Iraola only signed a 1 year extension so his contract expires end of next season. From what I've read he doesn't like signing long term deals and prefers signing 2 year deals, not sure why flexibility I guess for both him and the club he's managing. But he signed a 2 year deal to go to Bournemouth last summer and only extended it by a year a few months ago.