Life after ETH — the next United manager

[sunama]

But the worst thing is that the long term is having years outside the UCL while you wait for a supposed “long-term” coach. Tuchel could get us fourth this year and probably do at least the season after that. We would be a properly set up team, and if the relationship went south, we'd be in a position of strength getting the next guy in.

More than winning the league, the most important thing for us is getting consecutive UCL places, not one season and out. Once we're able to do that, we can talk about winning the league.

Tuchel now is better than writing another season off. He’s got a difficult personality, but tactically, he is on another planet to EtH. He's in the Pep/Arteta league.

I agree with everything you wrote, but just making you aware that Tuchel is now the England manager - contract signed.
We need to look elsewhere.

 

[In Absentia]

You know full well the relationship going south means a disaster 6th placed finish with mutiny in the squad and a flurry of flop signings. Not being in a position of strength for the next guy.

The second point is laughable. How is this the most important thing? We’ve literally not spent more than a single consecutive year outside the top 4 and look where that’s got us. Meanwhile Liverpool and Arsenal have both spent 6+ years in a row outside the top 4 in recent years and come roaring back challenging for the league. We need to break this cycle of mediocrity, which inevitably means short term pain.

Why would I know that “full well” when what you’re saying is untrue? There’s no history of his teams tanking, and there’s more chance of him completing a first full season than him not doing. Anyway, that’s not happening. I think we’ve made a mistake not moving for him.

The second point is laughable because you’ve misread it. I’m aware we’ve not spent consecutive years outside the CL, but the point is to be IN it every year and building the squad as a proper Champion’s League team.

What’s your point with Liverpool and Arsenal? Was years of shite under Hodgson, Dalgleish, and Rodgers the REAL reason for the success under Klopp?

 

[Offside]

The second point is laughable because you’ve misread it. I’m aware we’ve not spent consecutive years outside the CL, but the point is to be IN it every year and building the squad as a proper Champion’s League team.

What’s your point with Liverpool and Arsenal? Was years of shite under Hodgson, Dalgleish, and Rodgers the REAL reason for the success under Klopp?

What does "build a proper Champions League team" mean? There has been zero correlation between the quality of signings we've made when we've been in the CL versus when we haven't. All it would do is increase the regularity of us bombing out early like we do every time.

The second point is relevant to my first. Liverpool had so many years outside the CL, they were never trapped in a cycle of mediocrity where fans like you found it imperative to finish top 4 every year and never address why they weren't going further. They sank very low following the Rafa years and could then press the reset button and give Klopp time to build something without that pressure, and then they had genuine momentum when they qualified again.

It's of course not like that's the only way to do it. Of course ideally we sack ETH, get Tuchel in and he gets top 4 this season then challenges for the league next as you want. But it's clear that that strategy hasn't worked for some time now, there's a cycle we are in of rinsing and repeating. I don't mind a few years of genuine shit, 8th, 7th finishes if it means we are patiently changing our DNA and building something up, that would likely lead to a higher ceiling and Liverpool and Arsenal are good examples of that.

 

[Infra-red]

Current favourites:

Ruud - 4/1
Southgate - 5/1
McKenna - 11/1
Potter - 22/1
Thomas Frank - 25/1

 

[Red Star One]

Current favourtites:

Ruud - 4/1
Southgate - 5/1
McKenna - 11/1
Potter - 22/1
Thomas Frank - 25/1

Not a single trophy won between them, unless I’m missing something

 

[Red Star One]

Not a single trophy won between them, unless I’m missing something

I’m wrong - Potter won Swedish cup with Östersund

 

[GaryLifo]

Not a single trophy won between them, unless I’m missing something

I'm sure Southgate must have won Pipe smoker of ther year at some point.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

That's a depressing list. It's terrible or probably just as terrible. Better the terrible you know?

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Current favourtites:

Ruud - 4/1
Southgate - 5/1
McKenna - 11/1
Potter - 22/1
Thomas Frank - 25/1

I won't even bother with the first two names. It would be the most post-SAF United thing, if we actually went on and paid a relegation candidate so that we can get one of our previous coaches back to manage the club.

 

[doubleohseven]

Better the terrible you know?

In this case, absofeckinlutely.

 

[Zumbi]

What does "build a proper Champions League team" mean? There has been zero correlation between the quality of signings we've made when we've been in the CL versus when we haven't. All it would do is increase the regularity of us bombing out early like we do every time.

The second point is relevant to my first. Liverpool had so many years outside the CL, they were never trapped in a cycle of mediocrity where fans like you found it imperative to finish top 4 every year and never address why they weren't going further. They sank very low following the Rafa years and could then press the reset button and give Klopp time to build something without that pressure, and then they had genuine momentum when they qualified again.

It's of course not like that's the only way to do it. Of course ideally we sack ETH, get Tuchel in and he gets top 4 this season then challenges for the league next as you want. But it's clear that that strategy hasn't worked for some time now, there's a cycle we are in of rinsing and repeating. I don't mind a few years of genuine shit, 8th, 7th finishes if it means we are patiently changing our DNA and building something up, that would likely lead to a higher ceiling and Liverpool and Arsenal are good examples of that.

Being in the CL is much, much better for our finances, allowing us to invest in the squad more, and it also makes it easier to attract better players. Our transfer policy being garbage for the last while doesn’t mean it has to stay that way. Of course getting back into the top of and regular CL football should be our goal.

As for putting up with a few years of genuine shit whilst “patiently changing our DNA”, what does that even mean? Sounds like meaningless nonsense used to justify continued underperformance. Being shit isn’t a mandatory rite of passage on the way to being good. There are other ways to get good.

 

[Newstyle]

Sebastian Hoeneß would be a dream appointment. Don’t know why he isn’t talked more about here.

 

[doubleohseven]

Sebastian Hoeneß would be a dream appointment. Don’t know why he isn’t talked more about here.

He turned us down in the summer to finish third-sixth in Germany.

Not up to it.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

Ruud and Roy Keane as caretakers until the summer would be interesting.

Some of our players need a real kick up the arse, and those two would give it for sure.

Roy has enough goodwill in the tank to cover for any inevitable disasters.

 

[Offside]

As for putting up with a few years of genuine shit whilst “patiently changing our DNA”, what does that even mean? Sounds like meaningless nonsense used to justify continued underperformance. Being shit isn’t a mandatory rite of passage on the way to being good. There are other ways to get good.

If you’d read my post you’d see I’m not saying that at all. Completely missed every point I was making. I’m not justifying anything. I’m saying the changes have to be made at a deep level which will take a long time to come to fruition. Apparently people want to just get in a short term option who can get us regularly in the top 4. You’re the one justifying the underperformance by wanting to continue in this cycle. Of course fans would start to moan if that were the case, as they’d want a title challenge. Stop ignoring the bigger picture. The whole club needs gutting throughout.

As I said in my previous post, you’re right that being shit isn’t a mandatory passage. I literally said that. Ideally we get someone who can very quickly turn us into challengers. It’s possible and things change rapidly in football. My original point was that, given his track record, that person is not likely to be Tuchel and likely doesn’t exist. Tuchel would at best get us competing for top 4 quickly before it all blew up again. Instead, we realistically need to aim for 3-4 years when City may decline. Who cares if we’re spending those years getting knocked out of the CL league phase. I’d rather us quality when we’ve built a team ready to win it.

 

[stefan92]

Sebastian Hoeneß would be a dream appointment. Don’t know why he isn’t talked more about here.

Apparently was approached in the summer and declined. Prefers to be in the CL instead of PL relegation battle.

United is beneath him.

(Somewhere between my post and @doubleohseven 's post you find the truth)

 

[Zumbi]

If you’d read my post you’d see I’m not saying that at all. Completely missed every point I was making. I’m not justifying anything. I’m saying the changes have to be made at a deep level which will take a long time to come to fruition. Apparently people want to just get in a short term option who can get us regularly in the top 4. You’re the one justifying the underperformance by wanting to continue in this cycle. Of course fans would start to moan if that were the case, as they’d want a title challenge. Stop ignoring the bigger picture. The whole club needs gutting throughout.

As I said in my previous post, you’re right that being shit isn’t a mandatory passage. I literally said that. Ideally we get someone who can very quickly turn us into challengers. It’s possible and things change rapidly in football. My original point was that, given his track record, that person is not likely to be Tuchel and likely doesn’t exist. Tuchel would at best get us competing for top 4 quickly before it all blew up again. Instead, we realistically need to aim for 3-4 years when City may decline. Who cares if we’re spending those years getting knocked out of the CL league phase. I’d rather us quality when we’ve built a team ready to win it.

Nonsense, I’m saying nothing of the sort. I don’t think there’s anyone that doesn’t think there aren’t some underlying, bigger issues that need to be sorted, but getting in a manager who can make us top four in the short term isn’t mutually exclusive to making those bigger, long term changes, especially when such significant changes to the footballing side of the club are already being made. It may even help, because it will help fund what we hope to be a smarter and more stable and long term approach in the transfer market.

You’re presenting a false dichotomy based on nothing more than a feeling over how someone like Tuchel might do. There’s no set way on how clubs get back to the top. Short term managers who bring short term success can absolutely be a part viable part of a successful long term strategy that involves multiple people and multiple elements.

 

[mythz]

Turkish journalist Salim Manav writes on twitter now that Montella is one of the candidates to replace ten hag

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Current favourtites:

Ruud - 4/1
Southgate - 5/1
McKenna - 11/1
Potter - 22/1
Thomas Frank - 25/1

If city, Arsenal or Liverpool had a vacancy tomorrow, you'd probably look at their 5 favourites and drool.

I don't get why we always get linked to the Martin O'Neil's and Southgate's

 

[didz]

If city, Arsenal or Liverpool had a vacancy tomorrow, you'd probably look at their 5 favourites and drool.

I don't get why we always get linked to the Martin O'Neil's and Southgate's

Way to guarantee The Express to make that link tomorrow!

 

[pocco]

He turned us down in the summer to finish third-sixth in Germany.

Not up to it.

Who would you want next? I see you downplaying most options.

 

[TheReligion]

Amorin
Nagelsmann
Alonso

The three top Caf picks

 

[RDCR07]

Amorin
Nagelsmann
Alonso

The three top Caf picks

The right picks in my opinion.

 

[FrankDrebin]

If city, Arsenal or Liverpool had a vacancy tomorrow, you'd probably look at their 5 favourites and drool.

I don't get why we always get linked to the Martin O'Neil's and Southgate's

I think our reputation of being unstable for the high end bracket of coaches clearly would put some doubt in thier minds, especially younger ones with great potential.

 

[TheReligion]

The right picks in my opinion.

Yeah I think so.

Xavi and Zidane would also be interesting as would a wildcard entry like McKenna.

Thing is though. None of these candidates are available now.

Is everyone happy to continue with Ten Hag, or use an interim option, for near enough a full season so we can get the best candidate?

There’s no patience.

 

[didz]

Amorin
Nagelsmann
Alonso

The three top Caf picks

Of course they are. They're the most unlikely three to come!

If Alonso came out and declared that it was always his dream to manage Man United tomorrow, by the end of the week he'd be a traitorous Bundesliga bum.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Yeah I think so.

Xavi and Zidane would also be interesting as would a wildcard entry like McKenna.

Thing is though. None of these candidates are available now.

Is everyone happy to continue with Ten Hag, or use an interim option, for near enough a full season so we can get the best candidate?

There’s no patience.

I think the fans have been patient enough.

Still, ETH will likely see the season out and Ineos will try bringing in their guy in the summer.

 

[romufc]

Is everyone happy to continue with Ten Hag, or use an interim option, for near enough a full season so we can get the best candidate?

Most definitely not.

We dont need to keep Ten Hag to get the best candidate... an interim would be better than Ten Hag.

The issue Ten Hag has now is that he is always 2 games away from the sack. Its been like this since Liverpool at home last season. How many times have we said he has to go or he has 2 games to save his job?

Its unsustainable for all, the coach, fans and players when you have a manager that is there and we are waiting for him to get sacked.

The only way Ten Hag can turn it around is if we get top 4 playing fluid football and a trophy.

I can't see any of those happening, let alone all 3.

 

[Zumbi]

Yeah I think so.

Xavi and Zidane would also be interesting as would a wildcard entry like McKenna.

Thing is though. None of these candidates are available now.

Is everyone happy to continue with Ten Hag, or use an interim option, for near enough a full season so we can get the best candidate?

There’s no patience.

I’d take an interim in a heartbeat over letting Ten Hag do any more damage.

 

[Tom Cato]

If we are talking left hand candidates just get Kjetil Knutsen in the mix.

Manages a team that constantly sell of their players to bigger clubs, yet consistently performs above and beyond in Europe, beating Porto last time. A club Manchester United failed to beat in the very next round.

 

[Sarni]

If we are talking left hand candidates just get Kjetil Knutsen in the mix.

Manages a team that constantly sell of their players to bigger clubs, yet consistently performs above and beyond in Europe, beating Porto last time. A club Manchester United failed to beat in the very next round.

I'd maybe consider him if he were a young up and coming manager (and even then I'd probably prefer for him to work elsewhere in a top league before coming here). I can't imagine us hiring a 56-year old coach with zero experience in top leagues.

 

[sullydnl]

Is everyone happy to continue with Ten Hag, or use an interim option, for near enough a full season so we can get the best candidate?

100%. The most important thing is that the next permanent hire is the right choice. Not least because the new football structure will likely be inclined to be particularly patient with whoever they hire.

If that means "wasting" a season until we can make that appointment next summer, fine.

Though that still isn't an argument against replacing ETH with the interim option you mention. In which case the question is how much of an upside they would really expect from replacing ETH with someone like RVN, who is likely a worse manager but might provide some sort of temporary bounce. Though we saw under Rangnick how grim a season with an interim manager can end up too.

 

[Zumbi]

100%. The most important thing is that the next permanent hire is the right choice. Not least because the new football structure will likely be inclined to be particularly patient with whoever they hire.

If that means "wasting" a season until we can make that appointment next summer, fine.

Though that still isn't an argument against replacing ETH with the interim option you mention. In which case the question is how much of an upside they would really expect from replacing ETH with someone like RVN, who is likely a worse manager but might provide some sort of temporary bounce. Though we saw under Rangnick how grim a season with an interim manager can end up too.

Yep, grim indeed. He still did better than Ten Hag did last season though, so surely a different interim is still worth the risk.

 

[ArmaDino]

Amorin
Nagelsmann
Alonso

The three top Caf picks

The right picks in my opinion.

Disagree. None of them have the right profile for the players we currently have.

Amorim is basically Ten Hag 2.0 with the way he sets up his team in a 3-1-6 and the full backs pushing super high up opening spaces behind the midfield for the opposition to run into.

As unpopular as it sounds, we should be looking for managers like Conte, Inzaghi, Allegri, Tcuchel(not anymore) or even Carrick or Ole as caretakers.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Current favourtites:

Ruud - 4/1
Southgate - 5/1
McKenna - 11/1
Potter - 22/1
Thomas Frank - 25/1

This list is depressing.

 

[TheReligion]

100%. The most important thing is that the next permanent hire is the right choice. Not least because the new football structure will likely be inclined to be particularly patient with whoever they hire.

If that means "wasting" a season until we can make that appointment next summer, fine.

Though that still isn't an argument against replacing ETH with the interim option you mention. In which case the question is how much of an upside they would really expect from replacing ETH with someone like RVN, who is likely a worse manager but might provide some sort of temporary bounce. Though we saw under Rangnick how grim a season with an interim manager can end up too.

I think INEOS have shown there are happy to be patient if it means getting who they want, even if that takes time (see Berrada and Ashworth appointments).

I think the fans who are losing their shit about things not happening immediately really need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

We can get rid of Ten Hag immediately, but that means finding a suitable interim and a good chance of a Rangnick type season and over a much longer period. That could be the trade off in order to get the person the club one to lead the project and would surely make it worth it in the long term.

Or we can knee jerk and just appoint a third or fourth choice option now and move away from the plan. Then there’s a risk of needing to do this all again within 12 months much like Clearlake.

The final option is keep Ten Hag a bit longer and see if he can bridge some of that gap.

 

[lex talionis]

If ETH has it in him to right the ship it has to start with dispatching Brentford. It's not as though Brentford are a top six club or have any realistic dream of lifting trophies. They're not a relegation fodder club, but if we can't beat Brentford it has to be the end of the party for Mr. Hag. We've seen success with interim managers before and even if it takes though the end of the season to get the manager INEOS want then so be it.

 

[Pscholes18]

The best in class line will haunt ole Jimmy.

 

[didz]

Disagree. None of them have the right profile for the players we currently have.

Amorim is basically Ten Hag 2.0 with the way he sets up his team in a 3-1-6 and the full backs pushing super high up opening spaces behind the midfield for the opposition to run into.

As unpopular as it sounds, we should be looking for managers like Conte, Inzaghi, Allegri, Tcuchel(not anymore) or even Carrick or Ole as caretakers.

He's pretty set on the 2 midfielders staying at home, so it's always a 3-2-5 with Amorim. They do/did get hit on the break a lot though so you're right there. He hasn't really had both wingbacks going gung-ho at the same time since Sporting lost Porro and Mendes, and you've kind of gotta get them two high up the pitch if you have them.

But take the games against Atalanta last season - the leftback Reis was pretty defensive in both matches, with Catamo playing like a right winger in the home tie and Esgaio coming in for the away game and barely ever overlapping. He's adaptable, just not with some things.

He does seem to always be learning, so it'll be well worth keeping an eye on Sporting in the Europa this season. Although with Viana going to City, my money would be on Amorim following him.

 

[RDCR07]

Disagree. None of them have the right profile for the players we currently have.

Amorim is basically Ten Hag 2.0 with the way he sets up his team in a 3-1-6 and the full backs pushing super high up opening spaces behind the midfield for the opposition to run into.

As unpopular as it sounds, we should be looking for managers like Conte, Inzaghi, Allegri, Tcuchel(not anymore) or even Carrick or Ole as caretakers.

Can’t compare anyone to Ten Hag cause he isn’t a good coach. Just cause his system doesn’t work with these set of players doesn’t mean a proper coach can’t make it work.

We can’t keep going back to these “safe” coaches cause they’ve made it work. They are not the answer. Thats why we are in this mess. We need these young 40 year olds with their progressive ideas. Apparently City are lining up Amorim to replace Pep should he leave. And before you say Ten Hag, he wasn’t “young” per se nor was he progressive.