Kylian Mbappe | PSG

Imagine comparing Martial and Antony in this.

It's more their front line is fine but he could disrupt them.

You said top-heavy, which reads as having too many options up front. However, they only have 3 recognised forwards (one of whom is aged 34) in the squad, whereas Utd have 6. I’m not sure that can reasonably be described as top-heavy.

However, I do accept that Mbappe, Vinicius and Rodrygo prefer to occupy similar areas of the pitch - so that would require some working out.
 
Mbappe is the biggest hypejob in the history of football.

There has never been a player who has been hyped more relative to his actual achievements.

Mbappe has been at PSG for 6 years and he hasn't manager to deliver even one memorable performance in big games. Not even one. Even though everything was built around him and he had multiple opportunities in CL knockout ties.

Every single other player that has been hyped to this level in the past has had many memorable games by this stage. For example players like Aimar and Riquelme were absolutely tearing South America apart and were already club legends before coming to Europe. Džeko had all-time great games in Wolfsburg, Aguero at Atletico etd. Mbappe has not shown anything to even be at a level of those players, yet alone people thinking he's going to be on level of someone like Suarez. I'm not even going to mention Messi and Ronaldo because you have to be completely delusional at this point to think Mbappe will ever become even a 1% of these players.

Mbappe has not even managed to become a PSG club legend. Not a single PSG fan considers him a legend. That's how forgettable his time at PSG was. If you ask PSG fans who the legends of their clubs are they'd easily put guys like Pauleta and Rai above Mbappe. There's levels to this. Mbappe has never had a Pauleta moment in PSG shirt. He did not even do a Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho's 2 years at PSG surpass everything Mbappe has done at this club for 6 years.

He's had 6 years to do something and didn't do anything. How much more does he need? He only has 6 years of physical prime left.

Yet people think Mbappe is going to become some sort of all-time great, when he hasn't been able to even become a great at PSG. His entire claim to fame is having a good WC in 2018 and since then the hype has been wild and completely undeserved. We've seen how great performances for national team never translate to club level. Enzo Fernandez has had a better WC than Mbappe had and look how he's doing at Chelsea.
 
That seems like an exaggeration.

It is an exaggeration. The argument is also terrible, not being as high as Rai and Pauleta doesn't make you insignificant because the love for Rai and Pauleta is very difficult to describe especially Pauleta and in both cases it has more to do with their personalities and the context of their careers. Also Ronaldinho's time at PSG isn't actually that highly rated, he is appreciated but his time and PSG's performances were really forgettable.

It's basically like suggesting that Rooney isn't all that because Cantona and Sir Bobby Charlton are above him.
 
It is an exaggeration. The argument is also terrible, not being as high as Rai and Pauleta doesn't make you insignificant because the love for Rai and Pauleta is very difficult to describe especially Pauleta and in both cases it has more to do with their personalities and the context of their careers. Also Ronaldinho's time at PSG isn't actually that highly rated, he is appreciated but his time and PSG's performances were really forgettable.

It's basically like suggesting that Rooney isn't all that because Cantona and Sir Bobby Charlton are above him.
Is Mbappe maybe less of a legend to PSG since it has been obvious for a while that he sees them as a stepping stone to Madrid? A bit like not everyone regards C. Ronaldo as a United legend?
 
Rumour is....

It's not Madrid :wenger:
Certainly not United

Noisy Neighbors? :eek:
 
Is Mbappe maybe less of a legend to PSG since it has been obvious for a while that he sees them as a stepping stone to Madrid? A bit like not everyone regards C. Ronaldo as a United legend?

No, we are just comparing him to the absolute top and there is a trend with PSG. In reality PSG isn't the club of the wealthy or fancy people, it's one of the club of the proletariat in spite of how it was created. Mbappé isn't humble and he isn't seen as a man of the people unlike Pauleta or Rai. Mbappé could stay 200 years at PSG and he wouldn't surpass Pauleta and frankly I don't think anyone is going to do it any time soon, Rai is a humble class act while Pauleta embodies what original PSG fans appreciate and keep in mind that he is as loved by Bordeaux fans. He is a bit like Ancelotti for managers.
 
Wirtz is german, so he will naturally be drawn towards Bayern though.

One of the biggest German football magazines published an article on Wirtz' future this week and claims that Real Madrid is in the pole position for a move in 2025. They seemingly tasked one of their most reknown scouts, some guy called Felipe Martin, with bringing him to Madrid, and apparently document every appearance of his. The plan is to extend Kroos until 2025 and when he retires, moce Bellingham back to CM and give Wirtz the spot in AM. Wirtz himself apparently sees himself in Spain or England and has seemingly ditched the idea of an intermediary step at Bayern. Plus Alonso will likely move to Madrid in 2025 as well and the squad would be perfect for him.


Rüdiger Militao Alaba
Tchouameni Bellingham
Rodrygo Güler Wirtz Vinicius
Mbappe​

You could bring in Valverde, Carvajal, Vazquez, Camavinga, Mendy, Diaz, etc. all pretty easily as well. Most of them in different positions even.
 
That defense isn‘t young enough and that formation is lacking defensive players in general.

It's not much different to what he is playing with us. Frimpong and Grimaldo are very attacking oriented but there have also been games in which Adli and Tella, nominally two attackers, played as WBs. Especially since Rodrygo in particular has great work ethic.

Anyway, you could also take out Güler and bring in Valverde, Carvajal, Vazquez, Mendy or Camavinga (or Davies) as WBs. Alonso is very flexible with these kind of things. He sometimes has asymmetricsl formations as well and liked to have two fast wide players on the same wing, like the Diaby/Frimpong combo from last season or now Tella/Frimpong.
 
He won't win
Mbappe is the biggest hypejob in the history of football.

There has never been a player who has been hyped more relative to his actual achievements.

Mbappe has been at PSG for 6 years and he hasn't manager to deliver even one memorable performance in big games. Not even one. Even though everything was built around him and he had multiple opportunities in CL knockout ties.

Every single other player that has been hyped to this level in the past has had many memorable games by this stage. For example players like Aimar and Riquelme were absolutely tearing South America apart and were already club legends before coming to Europe. Džeko had all-time great games in Wolfsburg, Aguero at Atletico etd. Mbappe has not shown anything to even be at a level of those players, yet alone people thinking he's going to be on level of someone like Suarez. I'm not even going to mention Messi and Ronaldo because you have to be completely delusional at this point to think Mbappe will ever become even a 1% of these players.

Mbappe has not even managed to become a PSG club legend. Not a single PSG fan considers him a legend. That's how forgettable his time at PSG was. If you ask PSG fans who the legends of their clubs are they'd easily put guys like Pauleta and Rai above Mbappe. There's levels to this. Mbappe has never had a Pauleta moment in PSG shirt. He did not even do a Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho's 2 years at PSG surpass everything Mbappe has done at this club for 6 years.

He's had 6 years to do something and didn't do anything. How much more does he need? He only has 6 years of physical prime left.

Yet people think Mbappe is going to become some sort of all-time great, when he hasn't been able to even become a great at PSG. His entire claim to fame is having a good WC in 2018 and since then the hype has been wild and completely undeserved. We've seen how great performances for national team never translate to club level. Enzo Fernandez has had a better WC than Mbappe had and look how he's doing at Chelsea.

You're talking nonsense. He's had 7 year / seasons.
 
That defense isn‘t young enough and that formation is lacking defensive players in general.

Great for FIFA though :lol:

We’ll see, I don’t think Wirtz will play for us. Replacing Kroos isn’t gonna be a thing, not 1:1 that is. A lot of options for our setup, that is for sure.

I still think Tchou should be converted into a fulltime CB. He is much better there.
 
Rumour is....

It's not Madrid :wenger:
Certainly not United

Noisy Neighbors? :eek:

It is Madrid, although it´s a REAL useless move for him and the club. Vinicius is a superior player in his position. They´ll likely have won three CLs in recent memory. So what is he trying to accomplish? He can´t win in that situation.

It would make a lot more sense to go to Munich, Liverpool or Arsenal. Liverpool and Arsenal have enough pieces (Salah, Martinelli, Nunass, Jesus) they could sell for a strong profit to make it work financially.

All three clubs still have a fairly talented young base, but also enough flaws and needs for upgrade, that he´d be considered the difference-maker, the true Alpha.

On paper it would make more sense for him and Madrid. I just think Mbappe´s mind is completely set on Madrid.

I actually believe, that if somebody backs out of the deal, it will be Madrid. They have been very cautious with their finances in recent years. They have no need for Mbappe. If Alonso is going there in 2025 as everybody suspects and Wirtz is coming with him, that will be a package deal worth nearly €200M in transfer fees. I don´t see Madrid paying for both Mbappe and Wirtz. And I think Madrid and Alonso would easily prefer Wirtz in that situation.
 
They are close interms of talent. The only season where I feel Ronaldo reached a truly great level outside goals was 06/07. After that he was very similar level to Mbappe; pace, power, movement and goals with additional aerial ability and free kicks. Ronaldo had a better ultra long range shots in his prime, Mbappe is better at curling them into the top corner from outside the area. Dribbling wise they've been similar ditto creativity although Mbappe's longer range passes are better.

And in addition to these points, Ronaldo emerged abit late compared to Mbappe; Ronaldo used to get alot of stick for overindulgence, running into blind alleys, poor decision making, lack of end product and pointless tricks that often failed to come off. He learnt alot on the job. Mbappe was already recognised as a major talent by 18, playing an important role in France's world cup win in 2018.

But, Ronaldo is a mentality monster. Imo that is his main strength especially during the prime years (and a weakness as his career winds down). It is the one thing Ronaldo is much better than anyone else at; based on talent alone, he had no right to compete with Messi yet he did so creating a rivalry never seen before.
I agree with a lot of your points but simply, there are things Ronaldo can do at his best that Mbappe isn’t capable of. That alone should separate them talent-wise.

Coincidentally, I just finished watching a clip of Mbappe from his time at PSG & France over the last few years. He’s great at those curling shots like you mentioned as that seemed to be about 60-70% of the goals he scored. That and the near post finishes were trademarks.

In comparison, Ronaldo has a significantly more diverse goal catalogue. Towering headers, long range free-kicks, long-range strikes with either foot. Simply any kind of goal you could imagine.

Also, I wouldn’t really say Ronaldo was late considering he was already the best player in the PL at 21 and a key cog for his national team by 19 (would go as far as saying he was 2nd only to Figo). Mbappe definitely started off with better end product/less raw but I think that’s partly to do with how different football is played in the last years than it was 20 years ago. Mbappe emerged as more of a striker while Ronaldo emerged as more of a traditional winger - 2 intrinsically different roles. Although, his decision making was definitely far far ahead of Ronaldo’s at the same age. I would give dribbling to a young Ronaldo honestly but the gap isn’t that large admittedly.
 
I'll never understand how there has been so much hype for a guy who has done nothing notable at club level. There's not a single iconic game Mbappe had for PSG. A player who's supposedly ballon d'Or level should have had at least some legendary performances where he himself demolished the opponents in a high profile match like Nedved did for Juve against Real Madrid or Henry against Inter. Even Neymar did more for PSG with that 2020 run where he carried the team to the CL final.

As a Real Madrid hater I want him at Real so badly because he'll be absolute crap for them, especially for that money. He'll get them in galactico 2.0 era.



It's the other way around. Until Mbappe does something notable in club football, you can't say he's better than Vini.
He already has, multiple times before. Don't let this disappoint CL season's end erased some of his accomplishments.

That's a dumb statement.
It's beyond dumb tbh. Stupid revisionism
 
Also Ronaldinho's time at PSG isn't actually that highly rated, he is appreciated but his time and PSG's performances were really forgettable.

Ronaldinho had memorable performances in PSG, he delivered sublime world class performances against Marseille on two occasions and in those days playing against Marseille was like a Champions League final for PSG. Marseille also had the much better team and was above PSG in the table. But Ronaldinho single-handedly led PSG to win 3-0 in Marseille in 2003. That derby win alone is equal to 5 post-Qatari Ligue 1 titles for PSG fans. Mbappe never had a legendary performance like that, not even remotely close. That one single game from Ronaldinho was worth more than Mbappe's entire career at PSG, because of the memories it created.

I know this because I have friends who are PSG fans and they all absolutely HATE Mbappe. One of them told me that he basically considers him a flop as he delivered nowhere near the money PSG paid for him and leaves for free.

He can basically be compared to Anelka, a PSG guy who was hyped to no end and failed to deliver. His career is even following the same trajectory, going to Real Madrid with huge hype behind him. I can see him being loaned out to Liverpool soon as well.

Also if you think it's unfair to compare Mbappe to pre-Qatari humble class-act PSG legends, let's do a post-Qatari comparison then. Ibrahimović is a much bigger legend than him for PSG fans. And this was post-prime Ibrahimović. Like he said himself "I came like a king, left like a legend." Meanwhile Mbappe can say something akin to "I came like a hypejob, left like a flop."

At the end of the day, if Mbappe never came to PSG, PSG would be exactly the same today. They'd still have all those Ligue 1 titles and no CL. He made zero impact on the club. In fact, there's a chance they'd actually get a CL without Mbappe, as he was their worst player against Dortmund (as per ratings), and without him they might have scratched a win. Not to mention that they could have spend the money they spend on him on far better players, and who knows what would happen.
 
IMO, it's good that he will be joining RM. Recently, RM is doing all the right things. Buying and developing world class talents. Buying superstars like Mbappe in a position they don't need will disrupt the squad harmony. There will be lots of big egos clashes.
 
Both great players, but until Vini actually does something notable for Brazil, you can't say he's better than Mbappe.
Yeah I know what you mean. And can’t argue with that. “Better player” was clearly wrong. What I meant was that over the years Vini just does more beautiful things with the ball. Mbappe is clearly much more clinical on his day.
 
Yeah I know what you mean. And can’t argue with that. “Better player” was clearly wrong. What I meant was that over the years Vini just does more beautiful things with the ball. Mbappe is clearly much more clinical on his day.
They have different functions, to be fair. Both are very good at what they do.
 
Ronaldinho had memorable performances in PSG, he delivered sublime world class performances against Marseille on two occasions and in those days playing against Marseille was like a Champions League final for PSG. Marseille also had the much better team and was above PSG in the table. But Ronaldinho single-handedly led PSG to win 3-0 in Marseille in 2003. That derby win alone is equal to 5 post-Qatari Ligue 1 titles for PSG fans. Mbappe never had a legendary performance like that, not even remotely close. That one single game from Ronaldinho was worth more than Mbappe's entire career at PSG, because of the memories it created.

I know this because I have friends who are PSG fans and they all absolutely HATE Mbappe. One of them told me that he basically considers him a flop as he delivered nowhere near the money PSG paid for him and leaves for free.

He can basically be compared to Anelka, a PSG guy who was hyped to no end and failed to deliver. His career is even following the same trajectory, going to Real Madrid with huge hype behind him. I can see him being loaned out to Liverpool soon as well.

Also if you think it's unfair to compare Mbappe to pre-Qatari humble class-act PSG legends, let's do a post-Qatari comparison then. Ibrahimović is a much bigger legend than him for PSG fans. And this was post-prime Ibrahimović. Like he said himself "I came like a king, left like a legend." Meanwhile Mbappe can say something akin to "I came like a hypejob, left like a flop."

At the end of the day, if Mbappe never came to PSG, PSG would be exactly the same today. They'd still have all those Ligue 1 titles and no CL. He made zero impact on the club. In fact, there's a chance they'd actually get a CL without Mbappe, as he was their worst player against Dortmund (as per ratings), and without him they might have scratched a win. Not to mention that they could have spend the money they spend on him on far better players, and who knows what would happen.

Mbappé scored a hat-trick at Camp Nou in a CL knockout game, scored two in Munich against Bayern, starred against Real Madrid etc. Ridiculous to claim Ronaldinho was better for PSG.

Just so many ridiculous takes there, Mbappé has carried PSG over the past while when Neymar was often injured and Messi was in and out of it and various stars came and gone he was playing week in week out in Ligue 1. He's a 4-time Ligue 1 player of the year. Again the Anelka comparison is complete crap.
 
BBC Sport understands Mbappe is set to sign a five-year deal with Real.

He is set to earn £12.8m (15m euros) a season, plus a £128m (150m euros) signing-on bonus to be paid over five years.

He will keep a percentage of his image rights.


Some free transfer. As laughable as the 'bargain 60m euros' the cheats supposedly paid for Haaland. Wonder which of them is getting paid the most.
That wage is net wages, correct? I think that’s how they report it in Spain. Not sure what the tax rate is for high earners over there (probably 45-50%?), meaning he’ll earn around £500k per week gross. Excluding the signing on bonus.
 
If Mbappe goes to Madrid and things go well, as it tend to happen there + the extra praise (for various reasons) Madrid adds to any player that does great there.
He'll be in a unique position to be considered the best ever, or to the very least be considerated among those.
It's a very possible scenario if he collects some golden boots, CLs and Ligas. He also more than probably will add quite a number of goals in WCs/Euros and maybe even another title
On his side he just has to leave aside his spoiled brat lapsus, be less wasteful and more generous on every sense and even with his current output, style and strengths (if he adds more to his game even more) he'll more than probably achieve a lot.
More when Madrid recently did a great fecking job renovating while winning a lot at the same time and we are in general in a transition period regarding major figures with many Top Teams struggling to renovate.

Do I think that in terms of "talent" he is up there with some of the usual suspects normally mentioned? nope, but it doesn't matter, I do not think CR (as extraordinary as he is) is up there either in comparison with some of my favorite players in the history of the game.
The timing of his transfer is as good as his usual timing to collect stats so far, he is one of the few really skill players (he has some phenom atributes in his game, his major issue is his head and how to use those) that can collect stats in Cups or tournaments without having lots of really all around special perfomances (even within a single match). He is mostly a player of moments, yet the thing is that he is an special specimen physically and tehcnically so many of those moments are quite fecking extraordinary.
So in this social media world, with Pele, Maradona every day further in the past, with the nowadays predominant focus and praise on stats, other metrics and the appeal that gives size combine with pace and skills, he´ll have a great shot. Doing it it's another matter, yet he doesn't need to be Pele, nor Maradona or even Johan and such...the trend that more or less started with R9 is even stronger nowadays and the timing and enviroment a priori is there too.
 
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Wild difference in opinion of this guy from PSG fans it seems.

Got a ton of boos in his last game but also that massive picture thing of him.

The ultras(who did the tifo) tend to support their players and generally like them, the rest which largely popped up with QSI are bona fide weirdos. QSI tried to get rid of the ultras years ago and the atmosphere was dead with very little support from "fans", they eventually brought them back.
 
If Mbappe goes to Madrid and things go well, as it tend to happen there + the extra praise (for various reasons) Madrid adds to any player that does great there.
He'll be in a unique position to be considered the best ever, or to the very least be considerated among those.
It's a very possible scenario if he collects some golden boots, CLs and Ligas. He also more than probably will add quite a number of goals in WCs/Euros and maybe even another title
Om his side he just has to leave aside his spoiled brat lapsus, be less wasteful and more generous on every sense and even with his current output, style and strengths (if he adds more to his game even more) he'll more than probably achieve a lot.
More when Madrid recently did a great fecking job renovating, while winning a lot at the same time and we are in general ina transtion period regarding major figures and with many Top Teams struggling to renovate.

Do I think that in terms of "talent" he is up there with some of the usual suspects normally mentioned? nope, but it doesn't matter, I do not think CR (as extraordinary as he is) is up there either in comparison with some of my favorite players in the history of the game.
The timing of his transfer is as good as his usual timing to collect stats so far, he is one of the few really skill players (he has some phenom atributes in his game, his major issue is his head and how to use those) that can collect stats in Cups or tournaments without having lots of really all around special perfomances (even within a single match). He is mostly a player of moments, yet the thing is that he is an special specimen physically and tehcnically so many of those moments are quite fecking extraordinary.
So in this social media world, with Pele, Maradona every day further in the past, with the nowadays predominant focus and praise on stats, other metrics and the appeal that gives size combine with pace and skills, he´ll have a great shot. Doing it it's another matter, the talent, but he doesn't need to be Pele, nor Maradona or even Johan and such...the trend that more or less started with R9 is even stronger nowadays and the timing and enviroment a priori is there too.
I don't think he'll ever be regarded as the best ever, but 'one of the best ever' is definitely on the cards. With regard to this, his emergence now after Messi reminds me a little bit of the rise of R9 in the wake of Maradona. I remember watching R9 and thinking 'yeah, he's really really good, but not as good as Maradona'. There was a clear gap in my mind. I felt similarly about other great players that rose to prominence as Maradona's powers waned, like Romario and Baggio.

It's not an exact analogy because of course Maradona and R9 did not play together as Mbappe and Messi have done. Also, whilst Maradona and Messi are comparable in terms of standing and ability, I think prime R9 is a much, much better player than Mbappe. So it is a lot closer between Maradona and R9 than it is between Messi and Mbappe. But I'm just talking about the feeling of having seen a true alien and then seeing someone who is amazing but not quite of the same level.
 
Weird takes from some here. Regardless of how some fans feel about him, he leaves PSG as their top scorer ever (256 goals) and ends the season with more than 40 goals to his name. I know Messi and Ronaldo have made the ridiculous ordinary over the last twenty years, but those are some damn good numbers.
 
I don't think he'll ever be regarded as the best ever, but 'one of the best ever' is definitely on the cards. With regard to this, his emergence now after Messi reminds me a little bit of the rise of R9 in the wake of Maradona. I remember watching R9 and thinking 'yeah, he's really really good, but not as good as Maradona'. There was a clear gap in my mind. I felt similarly about other great players that rose to prominence as Maradona's powers waned, like Romario and Baggio.

It's not an exact analogy because of course Maradona and R9 did not play together as Mbappe and Messi have done. Also, whilst Maradona and Messi are comparable in terms of standing and ability, I think prime R9 is a much, much better player than Mbappe. So it is a lot closer between Maradona and R9 than it is between Messi and Mbappe. But I'm just talking about the feeling of having seen a true alien and then seeing someone who is amazing but not quite of the same level.

I'm not implying that for me he is on a level talent Pele, Maradona or Messi are...in fact I'm also extremely fond of Johan, Platini, Zico and Di Stefano, those are some of my favorites ever and are quite different to Killian .

Regarding Killian's specific forward oriented role, I still preffer R9's game, yet Kiki has enough talent and time on his side to collect a huge ammount of praise (and add things to his game too) and due to his style and atributes he is a player that can be part of that R9 braquet, like Henry once did too: the big, pacey, powerful yet very skill forward that can decide in a action by their own. All of them different, but leaving aside our prefferences more or less in the same "group".

Also we are living in a time that comes right after a massive oriented metrics period, mostly because in my view (leaving aside the historical appeal of massive goalscorers since day one in football), there was also a clear need (due to the nefarious Barca vs Madrid agenda) to create some levelled ground in the money maker Cris VS Lio stuff. So that trend for whatever reason, it's already settle.

As a side note: For me regarding CR and Messi, they are not in the same level and more or less equal stats or titles was never a parameter to decide between the two, I would always preffer "a Messi" as a player.
Of course I'm far from objective because of being Argie, but at the same time if Messi was Italian, German or Brazilian I would still think the same.
If it was Zico instead of Messi in these last years, I'm with Zico, just my taste, view or whatever you can all it.
That's why I preffer some of the mentioned in the first sentence above Kiki too, while at the same time I'm more incline to like a player like Mbappe in his style than CR.
PD: Naming all those oldies made me recall Futre, what a fecking extraordinary player.


Yet at the end of the day like I've said in the other post, if Mbappe collects numbers (more if those come with titles), there won't be much analysis regarding doing what role, from what position in the field, if he didn't contribute in other areas or if he just appeared 3 minutes almost every match, his raw ability etc.
Look at this last CL, watching the matches he wasn't on his best level, yet he has the talent and timing to still produce massive numbers in the competition.

He will also might add lots of assists to his name, a metric that has a lot of weight nowadays, even if it's as silly as Messi's first assist to Rojas in his recent match against NY Red Bulls or sthg.
He would do them more in the style of what CR and Suarez can provide, than the type of stuff Maradona, Platini, Zico, Messi pull out or even Ney and Di Maria with him as teammates, yet at the end of the day an assist is an assist no matter how it was done regarding collecting stats.
Also I feel fans will still be more incline to preffer a player of his mold instead of a Erling, if the competition becomes more or less equal in terms of stats.

Anyway, so much can happen from now on, let's see what the newer generations can provide too, how he settles in Madrid and so on.
Yet in terms of enviroment and him being a special combination of athletism and skills, he is in a really great great spot.
He has enough style and talent to be instantly considered among the very best ever if the nowadays possible scenario plays in good terms with him.

PD: from the current CROP I really hope Wirtz continues to grow, what a great fecking player in the making we might have in hands, time will tell.
Also as a side note, Kiki is a proven fella and even if he sucks in Madrid, nothing can take away what he already did and that he can recover from a bad transfer too, being that young, there is enough time for that scenario too (see Grizzie post Barca as a more or les recent example).
SORRY for THE HUGE POST! :)
 
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I'm not implying that for me he is on a level of talent Pele, Maradona or Messi are...in fact I'm extremely fond of Johan, Platini, Zico and Di Stefano (a dino by now) that seems like quite a freak for his time, those are some of my favorites ever.

In Killian's specific more forward oriented role I still preffer R9's game, yet Kiki has enough talent and time on his side to collect a huge ammount of praise (and add things to his game too) and due to his style and atributes he is a player that can be part of that R9 braquet, like Henry once did too: the big, pacey, powerful yet very skill forward that can decide in a action by their own. All of them different, but leaving aside our prefferences more or less in the same "group".

Also we are living in a time that it's right after a massive oriented metrics period, mostly because in my view (and leaving aside the historical appeal of massive goaslcorers since day one in football, there is nothing new there), there was also a clear need (due to the nefarious Barca vs Madrid agenda) to create some levelled ground in the money maker Cris VS Lio stuff. Anyway the trend for whatever reason, it's already settle.
As a side note: For me regarding CR and Messi, they are not in the same level and more or less equal stats or titles was never a parameter to decide between the two, I would always preffer "a Messi" as a player.
Of course I'm invested because of being Argie, but at the same time if Messi was Italian, German or Brazilian I would still think the same, if it was Zico instead of Messi in these last years, I'm with Zico, just my taste, view or whatever you can all it.
That's why I preffer some of the mentioned above Kiki too, even if I'm more incline to like a player like Mbappe in his style than CR.
PD: Naming all those oldies I just recall Futre, what a fecking extraordinary player.

Yet at the end of the day like I've said in the other post, if Mbappe collects numbers (more if those come with titles), there won't be much analysis regarding doing what role, from what position in the field, if he didn't contribute in other areas or if he just appeared 3 minutes almost every match, etc. Look at this last CL, watching the matches he wasn't on his best level, yet he has the talent and timing to still produce massive numbers in the competition.

He will also might have lots of assists to his name, a metric that has a lot of weight nowadays, even if it's as silly/stupid as Messi's first assist to Rojas in his recent match against NY Red Bulls or sthg. He would do them more in the style of what CR and Suarez can provide, than the type of stuff Maradona, Platini, Zico, Messi or even Ney and Di Maria did with him as teammates, yet at the end of the day it's still an assist.
Also I feel fans still be more incline to preffer a player of his mold instead of a Erling if the matchup becomes more or less equal in terms of stats.

Anyway, so much can happen from now on, let's see what the newer generations can provide too, how he settles in Madrid and so on, but in terms of enviroment and him as a special combination of athletism and skills, he is in a really great great spot.
He has enough style and talent to be instantly considered among the very best ever if the nowadays possible scenario plays in good terms for him.

PD: from the current CROP I really hope Wirtz continues to grow, what a great fecking player in the making we might have, time will tell, also BTW Kiki is a proven fella and even if he sucks in Madrid, nothing can take away what he already did and that he can recover from a bad transfer too, enough time for that scenario too (see Grizzie post Barca as a more or les recent example). SORRY for THE HUGE POST! :)
Buff too long. I translated it to read it easily even though it sounds weird.
I agree that Futre was a marvel, an incredibly funny player, an artist of the dive and the brawl.
About Mbappe, I think he's a bit late to be considered one of the best in history. For example Cris, he arrived in Madrid when he was 24, already with a C.L and although it took him a while to win, he won a lot. It's not easy for the same to happen with Mbappe, yes, he has a World Cup but I don't know if it's enough.
 
If Mbappe goes to Madrid and things go well, as it tend to happen there + the extra praise (for various reasons) Madrid adds to any player that does great there.
He'll be in a unique position to be considered the best ever, or to the very least be considerated among those.
It's a very possible scenario if he collects some golden boots, CLs and Ligas. He also more than probably will add quite a number of goals in WCs/Euros and maybe even another title
On his side he just has to leave aside his spoiled brat lapsus, be less wasteful and more generous on every sense and even with his current output, style and strengths (if he adds more to his game even more) he'll more than probably achieve a lot.
More when Madrid recently did a great fecking job renovating while winning a lot at the same time and we are in general in a transition period regarding major figures with many Top Teams struggling to renovate.

Do I think that in terms of "talent" he is up there with some of the usual suspects normally mentioned? nope, but it doesn't matter, I do not think CR (as extraordinary as he is) is up there either in comparison with some of my favorite players in the history of the game.
The timing of his transfer is as good as his usual timing to collect stats so far, he is one of the few really skill players (he has some phenom atributes in his game, his major issue is his head and how to use those) that can collect stats in Cups or tournaments without having lots of really all around special perfomances (even within a single match). He is mostly a player of moments, yet the thing is that he is an special specimen physically and tehcnically so many of those moments are quite fecking extraordinary.
So in this social media world, with Pele, Maradona every day further in the past, with the nowadays predominant focus and praise on stats, other metrics and the appeal that gives size combine with pace and skills, he´ll have a great shot. Doing it it's another matter, yet he doesn't need to be Pele, nor Maradona or even Johan and such...the trend that more or less started with R9 is even stronger nowadays and the timing and enviroment a priori is there too.
That's not possible for Mbappe. His talent does not extend anywhere near that echelon and never will. And that's not a knock on him.
 
That's not possible for Mbappe. His talent does not extend anywhere near that echelon and never will. And that's not a knock on him.

How is that not a knock on him?

You've pretty much said that no matter his accomplishments in the future, there is a ceiling on his status on the game

If he won every trophy in contention from now until his retirement, being the key player in all wins, what argument would you put against him?
 
How is that not a knock on him?

You've pretty much said that no matter his accomplishments in the future, there is a ceiling on his status on the game

If he won every trophy in contention from now until his retirement, being the key player in all wins, what argument would you put against him?
Because it is beyond him. He doesn't have the ability nor the capability. Your hypothetical would require him to have buffs in the aforementioned that he doesn't and will not.

Literal greatest of all time reduces the pool to one Golden Child generally born 20 years or so after the last of such capability. If that.
 
Because it is beyond him. He doesn't have the ability nor the capability. Your hypothetical would require him to have buffs in the aforementioned that he doesn't and will not.

Literal greatest of all time reduces the pool to one Golden Child generally born 20 years or so after the last of such capability. If that.

To be the greatest of all time? At the very least he has the capability and ability to be in the shortlists. Few more great WCs/Euros, rack up CLs with Madrid... and he wouldn't be close?
 
Buff too long. I translated it to read it easily even though it sounds weird.
I agree that Futre was a marvel, an incredibly funny player, an artist of the dive and the brawl.
About Mbappe, I think he's a bit late to be considered one of the best in history. For example Cris, he arrived in Madrid when he was 24, already with a C.L and although it took him a while to win, he won a lot. It's not easy for the same to happen with Mbappe, yes, he has a World Cup but I don't know if it's enough.

Yeah it was a bit of a mess (being generous with myself).
Futre's ability was incredible, he came right after the wave of Platini, Zico and Diego, such a great and enjoyable talent. PD: I wouldn't put that much emphasis on his shithousery, but he was indeed a naughty boy too .

That's not possible for Mbappe. His talent does not extend anywhere near that echelon and never will. And that's not a knock on him.

Yet it doesn't matter that much... if he for instance wins a couple of CL's, Ligas, smash some scoring records or even wins another WC or some Euro. He has enough talent (like Cris) to be GOATED by many, even if he is not "Maradona" level of genius.
It doesn't matter I do share Fortitude view, but we live in a world that nowadays put the emphasis on many of the aspects I've mentioned, so he might be considererd among the usual GOATS, he is in a very good position to achieve such status.
Current Mbappe I don't think deserves such status, but neither I think Cris is on pair with Messi and there are millions and millions of people that disagree with MY view.

At the end of the day what I was implying is that there are a serie of situations that creates an enviroment where he can have a great Carreer from now on that will certainly push his status to the stratosphere, whenever he takes advantage of such situation or not, we don't know and we don't know either if other stuff might interfere with such path in the future, yet he is in a great fecking spot right now.
 
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To be the greatest of all time? At the very least he has the capability and ability to be in the shortlists. Few more great WCs/Euros, rack up CLs with Madrid... and he wouldn't be close?
As I said in my previous post, it's no slight on Mbappe or the other 99.9% that becoming the greatest of all time - or even in the conversation - is beyond them. You are talking about the most stupendous, extraordinary alien-like players to have played football, who begin on a trajectory that is unfathomable for all but other all-timers, and then build further on that as they reach maturity. Even R9 was out of the running the moment his knee blew because it was clear, he was no longer a stupendous, game-breaking individual.

All of the players in that pool were e.x.c.e.p.t.i.o.n.a.l as children, through their debut period and then went farther along this trajectory with a level of ability that had a clear distinction of exceptionalism and brilliance. Messi was earmarked from the Youth World Cup dominance, not just for goals and assists, but for the ability on display, and it's that ability you can parse and determine potential from.

Mbappe has never been categorised as 'alien-like' or extraordinary in terms of gamebreaking talent. Even at his best, his talent was never regarded as the best in the world until those at the top (namely Messi, Neymar and C.Ronaldo) diminished. Even if you remove Messi from that grouping, Neymar was probably the last player who had the talent to be thought of as exceptional and even he was never earmarked as a potential greatest player of all time, not even in the discussion.

As far as I'm aware this has happened in the NBA, too. Lebron being earmarked straight away as a child as one who could dethrone, or par Jordan. As far as I'm aware, there's not been a player since who has been mentioned as of even the potential to entertain the notion? The splits in the NBA for Golden Child like figures seems to be 10-15 years. Shorter than football, but similar in the making of. Isn't it Jordan>time lapse> Kobe>time lapse> Lebron> time lapse> <insert>? Football is the same, just vaster. Di Stefano>time lapse>Pele>time lapse>Maradona>time lapse>Ronaldo>time lapse>Messi>time lapse <insert> to whenever this next freak of nature appears with other truly great players left by the wayside as that chain is formed. (Eusebio, Cruyff, Platini, Zico, Van Basten, and so on and so forth)

Second part of your sentence: it's not just about trophies, but how the performances are and how far beyond everyone else the player is. Hence Maradona always being in the conversation despite winning considerably less than those around him. Mbappe's 'cap' per ability, is probably the aspiration to be France's best ever player. Beyond that (and it's some feat in itself), he'd have to level up in a we've not seen in football to cause a disturbance amongst those at the supreme "alien like" level.
 
Even best french player ever is not something that I see. Platini was as good of a scorer and an infinitely better playmaker.