Mbappe did win the title with Monaco scoring 15 goals in the league that year. He was 18 or so and had a good UCL campaign too
Kylian Mbappe | PSG
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Mbappe in Ligue 1: 264 goals & assists in 245 games (1.08 per game)
Mbappe in UCL: 74 goals & assists in 73 games (1.01 per game)
Either UCL is also a farmers league or Mbappe turned UCL into his own farmers league.
If with this you're referring to off ball movement, positioning and reaction time inside the box, Mbappé is easily as good as Ronaldo at that. He's much worse at everything that involves manipulating or hitting the ball though.
Although he's obviously better than Haaland on the ball, both are world class for the same reasons. Mbappé has some decent dribbling and passing skills, but they're not that special. Dembelé is better in both, for example, and really doubt someone consider him world class. Those guys saying that Mbappé is technically close to Ronaldo are crazy.
Ah. I don't think a Kane elevates their team too much. There are too many deficiencies in midfield that they'd be better off fixing first
I won’t pretend to know as much about his technical abilities and limitations as some on here, but my impression of Mbappe is that he suffers from the same sort of ailment as Rashford.
Too much, too young and he completely bought into his own hype.
In that respect, Madrid will be go for him. They’re the one club in the world where the fans won’t stand for that shite, no matter how big your boots are. He’ll be forced to work on his inadequacies and perform every game.
Too much, too young and he completely bought into his own hype.
In that respect, Madrid will be go for him. They’re the one club in the world where the fans won’t stand for that shite, no matter how big your boots are. He’ll be forced to work on his inadequacies and perform every game.
I've got a very different view compared to a lot of what I'm hearing on the thread. Not sure if I'm ploughing a lonely furrow or if some of these factors are in play skewing our takes:
- The ability of social media to amplify reactive voices after every single game. We see it in every player thread - 9 good performances and 1 poor one. Cue Captain Smug "told you he was shite". And on that note the ability of social media to amplify agendas and wrap them around reactive narratives. It's toxic and fuels these weirdly unrealistic expectations.
- Struggling to separate the individual from the team. We have these weird takes that player 1 is a bottler because players 2-10 did ok, but player 11 made a mistake, and the team did not succeed.
- The Messi/Ronaldo effect. Obviously two uber-consistent all-timers skewing the expectations. But often ignored is how well they were positioned for being seen as successful. Both Barcelona and Real were the two best sides around for a decade: if one was winning the CL, the other was winning the league. Either way, both teams were seen as successful owing to their overall strength, playing in a 'respected league', and the quality of their main men. That dynamic is not a common one in the history of the game. And it fed into the Ballon D'Or. Both players could legitimately contest for it every year despite not doing the standard time-tested 'win a CL or major international tournament' thing.
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I agree. In fact, I think Real have to be careful not to torpedo their team. They have done a great job of refreshing the side in recent years and now have a great group of young players that look like they can develop and grow together. Mbappe on the other hand has shown himself to be egocentric and money orientated on a number of occasions, he doesn't scream team player - even if he isn't quite in the Neymar category.
Then there is the issue of his financial package. Real can dress it up all they want but his wage isn't going to be €300k a week or whatever they've indicated it will be as everyone knows they will be topping him up with €20m-€30m per year as a signing bonus. At worst that is going to cause serious and destructive resentment in the team or at best it is going to set an example to other Real players that they should run down their contracts and leave on a free once they've topped up their trophy cabinet with them.
Neymar was more of a team player than Mbappé from any perspective.
Good point. Vinicius and Bellingham's agents are going to ask for more in wages if they blow up their structure.
That's not even debatable. Only for people biased with Neymar off-field antics. He was always very competitive.
I don’t even understand why Madrid would bother when they are already successful.
It’s a bit like in 2000 would United need Zidane? He’d have been awesome… but end of the day we already had a strong squad. Keane, Scholes, Beckham and Giggs just worked well.
Madrid might have a master plan for Mbappe through the centre but from what I can see he plays in Vini’s position.
Unsettling Vini would tell players, no matter how well you do and what you win for Madrid we can still kick you to the curb potentially in your prime for zero other reason than new toy.
It’s a bit like in 2000 would United need Zidane? He’d have been awesome… but end of the day we already had a strong squad. Keane, Scholes, Beckham and Giggs just worked well.
Madrid might have a master plan for Mbappe through the centre but from what I can see he plays in Vini’s position.
Unsettling Vini would tell players, no matter how well you do and what you win for Madrid we can still kick you to the curb potentially in your prime for zero other reason than new toy.
I was also talking about Real Madrid
There are other issues for Mbappé that don’t apply for others in contemporary or all-time metrics of the last few decades, also: the league he’s playing in is a massive detriment to legacy and so he is more strictly judged by CL and Int. Football than anyone else, so the scrutiny he receives opposed to anyone else is hyper focused and attenuated to much, much fewer games and appearances, given his entire league campaign is written off from the outset, as unfair as that might be.
We saw the same happen with Neymar going the other way; suddenly, he was judged by a handful of games per season and all his league performances were seen as an irrelevance. Mbappé has a different rod for his back than his contemporaries until he moves.
They didn't win the UCL when they had a mega team, including him so....
Agreed, him dropping in and sending balls through to Mbappe would have been awesome.
I've seen some ridiculous things posted by people on this forum. But this perhaps tops them all. I don't know what fantasy land you live in but it sounds wonderful there.
I'm sure Madrid fans will be more than happy to chime in at the above absurdity.
Ronaldo with 450 goals in 438 games for madrid and 3 CL wins back to back.
Behave yourself.
He was 16!
Madrid's agenda goes beyond football tbh. The Spanish league is losing financially, they need a big player to improve the marketing. From a football perspective, they don't need Kylian
The comparison to Haaland was a reply to @heraklion, who used Mbappe's numbers in the UCL as a proof of his class compared to other world greats despite no trophies. Haaland's numbers (much better numbers and a trophy) -> tap in merchant carried by teammates in big matches. Haaland and Mbappe are very different players with very different skillsets.
When you look at Mbappe's numbers compared to Cavani's and Zlatan's (just as good and better numbers) in the seasons before him and PSGs trophys-hauls in the same periods (similar and no european trophies), don't you agree his club record needs some seasons in a better league to stand out as generational or for earning claiming rights for being best in the world?
I think Mbappe is at least among the top 3 players in the world right now, but that won't stick to him if he stays at PSG. Him and Haaland will probably share most of the next 10 B d'ors depending on who wins the trophies and gets the highest numbers.
You are probably nail on the head with this. Plus their eternal rivalry with Barcelona.
Both clubs will put themselves in the mud financially if it means getting one over on the other for a few years.
Its not strictly football-reasons, Perez, though has toned it down, he can't let go of the galactico-era, Mbappe is the most marketable player around.
In my opinion he is making a mistake here.
Just sell us Vini and you'll be fine
Ronaldo "primed" between 26-32 though, so the best is yet to come.
Ronaldo did have a B d'or and a CL title at Mbappes age, but he was nowhere near any goat or all time discussion before the Messi/Ronaldo rivalery peaked 2010-17.
- Ronaldo had 159 goals in club football to his name after the season he turned 25. He has 597 club goals since then.
- He had one CL trophy by then, and 1 ballon d'or. He's won 4 of both after that.
- Mbappe has 287 goals in club football at 25. He's also world champion and is the player in history with the most goals in WC finals. It looks like he's finally moving to a better league.
- I think it's a little to early to write him off
Can be said about other players too.
Yes but Mbappe has so much to accomplish before he's even in the conversion with Ronaldo.
Well, yeah. There's the marketing thing too. Perez loves big names and Mbappe has been his dream signing for years.
But I think there's too much recency bias against Mbappe here. He's still absolutely brilliant and the best player currently. Any player can have a bad knockout tie in the CL. Enrique's tactics and PSG's performance as a team was very underwhelming over the 2 legs so it's a bit harsh to put it all on Mbappe. Overall, Mbappe has been an extremely clutch player so far scoring in the biggest stages and the biggest stadiums. PSG have never really had the best squad in the world. It's always been very unbalanced. The board has done a terrible job and assembled players like a FIFA video game.
Mbappe's best position is off the left playing alongside a central Targetman. Playing him as a striker actually neutralizes a lot of his best qualities and strengths. Real Madrid don't need him because they already have the second best LW in the world in Vinicius. You can't get the best out of both Mbappe and Vinicius in the same team because both prefer exactly the same position/role. Will be interesting to see how these 2 coexist in Madrid. Mbappe is definitely the superior player though. If things don't go well, we might see Vinicius leaving within a couple of years.
But it's what Perez does. When he sees an opportunity of recruiting a big superstar/potential superstar, he ignores aspects like requirements, balance and harmony of the squad and just goes for it. Guess it's part of the razzmatazz and stardust associated with a club like Real Madrid.
I was also talking about Real Madrid
Your post was confusing... Case in point
Absolutely, but still too early to write a world champion with better numbers at the same age off though, isn't it?
I would not disrupt Vinicius for Mbappé. That's not even to do with this season. Vinicius shows exponential growth and is a proven champion for Madrid who constantly delivers for them, just as he will tonight.
That's worth too much to disrupt. Either find a way to harmonise, or avoid Mbappé who would literally be coming in to take Vinicius' position, which is madness.
That's worth too much to disrupt. Either find a way to harmonise, or avoid Mbappé who would literally be coming in to take Vinicius' position, which is madness.
Yes, but there is another thing to mention that has been missed, competition.
During Ronaldo's time there was more competition consistently, yes they have City now, but Real Madrid are up and down, they are far from great for a few years now. No Barcelona, no United, no Chelsea. It's a quiet time at club and international level.
He's been there 7 seasons now. He's been in good enough positions where he had the opportunity to rise up and show he's one of the greats. Hasn't done it for 7 seasons now, 8 if you include the good Monaco team he was in. Didn't do much last round in the quarters either and got a easier draw than usual in the semis. Got the team he wanted with owners who can afford anything. Acted like a diva to get the South Americans out and bring in his young fast French friends. He has no excuse really.
Even against Ole's United he choked at home. The margins are tight and the small details matter if you want to be seen as one of the greatest. Messi, Ronaldo, Lewa all received the critism until they got their expected CL / WC.
You can't blame teammates even if they miss several chances. Until he gets the CL monkey off his back he will be criticised for not winning it, even if he scores a hattrick a game. The blame will be on him.
He'll either retire a legend or as a Zlatan or Aguero, a just seen as a good player in history because they have a big trophy missing.
You wouldn't disrupt Vini Jr with bringing in a world class forward to compete with him who can also play centrally? You wouldn't disrupt the 21 goals man with a 43 goals man?
As if Real Madrid already has the perfect team and much depth in those attacking positions. They don't even have a central forward. Vini has 3 goals in 28 games for Brazil btw.
The overrating of Vinicius Jr. in here is absurd.
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In terms of all-round attributes, Prime Cristiano was one of the most complete players in history.
Finishing, weak foot, long shots, free kicks, penalties, crossing, passing, goals, assists, heading, pace, strength, physicality, Football IQ, etc.....he had it all in his locker. Mbappe's skillset is far more limited in comparison but his creative talent and decision making is very underrated. Think Mbappe has a great eye for assists and makes very good and mature decisions on the pitch. Very smart player. Ronaldo also had a certain arrogance, swagger and charisma which Mbappe lacks.
It's tough to compare Mbappe's career trajectory with Messi and Ronaldo.
At Mbappe's age, Ronaldo and especially Messi were widely criticised for their performances with their national teams.
Messi and Ronaldo achieved big things with their National Teams very late into their careers. Ronaldo with the Euro in 2016 and Messi with the World Cup at the twilight of his career. But Messi and Ronaldo achieved big things in club Football from a very young age. They started playing in the biggest leagues early on and their achievements were rated very highly since they broke through. It helps that they played for legacy clubs in the top 2 leagues.
On the other hand, with Mbappe it's almost the opposite. He achieved so much with his National Team early on and is already an all-time great in International Football but him staying at PSG has resulted in criticism of his club career. Football fans simply do not rate the French League whatsoever. Mbappe's stint at Monaco and PSG have been fantastic though and he has scored against a lot of big clubs in the CL so you can't call it a failure by any standards. But until he moves to a better league and wins the CL, the wider audience simply won't acknowledge his club career's greatness.
You can't write off Mbappe yet. If he moves to Madrid and wins 4 league titles and 3 CL titles in the next 6 years, then his achievements will look absolutely immense. Imagine if he adds more International trophies on top of that!
It's highly possible that Mbappe's biggest triumphs in club Football arrive a little late just like Messi and Ronaldo's international triumphs took a long, long time to finally happen. People are being way too harsh on Kylian.
Mbappe is simply more consistent, gets better numbers, is smarter and more explosive than Vinicius.
Simply a better player and a bigger star player/main man.
Vinicius gets regularly neutralised by fast defenders like Walker and Araujo. Mbappe on his day is pretty much unstoppable. Even Walker couldn't stop him in the World Cup.
Vinicius winning the CL is because of him being a Real Madrid player. They just seem to win CLs without depending on any particular player. Vinicius has been really embarrassing for the National Team.
Mbappe has performed in International Tournaments and in the CL against big teams including Real Madrid(remember his stunning last minute winner).
People here only watch Madrid in the big CL games which is why Vinicius is so overrated here. Both Vinicius and Rodrygo have been great for Madrid in those big CL ties.
Vinicius is a great player but will never be as consistent or dangerous as Mbappe. As soon as Mbappe joins Madrid, he'll be relegated to being the second/third fiddle. You can quote me on this.
Mbappe will always be criticised because people naturally have very high expectations from him(rightly so).
Seriously? I don't think we've ever had 2 so dominiant and sovereign clubs at one time in the history of European club football as the Barca and RM 2010-2018.
They were both literally miles better than all other football clubs in the world at the time, with world class players in every position.
They both scored 100+ goals in the league and 30+ goals in the CL literally every season for 7-8 years straight.
Messi and Ronaldo timed their peaks perfectly to be main men in the two (by far) best teams in the world at the time. If anything, no one has ever received as good service as Messi and Ronaldo did in that era. They pretty much had the perfect working conditions and their numbers are heavily inflated by this.
Bayern is the only other team who's come close to the xG of those versions of Barca and RM.
Reminds me of US womens soccer players. They only play about a dozen college games a year, basically saving themselves for USWNT matches (and CL in his case).
Um, most US women play in professional leagues on both sides of the Atlantic
Mbappe is IMO and in the opinion of most knowledgeable people, the best player in the world right now. If your comparison is Haaland, then he is clearly a better all round player than Haaland. Does this mean he is as good as prime Messi and Ronaldo? Of course not, but he's the best around right now.
If you think Haaland is better because he plays in the Premier League, why not have the confidence to say that, instead of hiding behind equivocation?
But I think.we both know that Haaland is not a better player, for all that he is supposedly 'proven' in the Premier League.
By the way, Mbappe has scored 48 goals in 73 games in the Champions League, 46 goals in 77 games for France, and over 300 so far in his career. He's a World Cup winner, a double WC finalist, a Nations League winner, and a CL finalist. He also won the French league not just with PSG, but also with Monaco. How many league titles did Ibra and Cavani win with Monaco?
If you really think that he would somehow struggle if he went to Real Madrid or the Premier League, then I have to seriously question your understanding of this game. Respectfully.
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Vini and co. have been spending the last 3 years publicly pining for him at every occasion, getting unsettled by his wages is probably not an issue right now
Which is unfortunate because that might have been the one thing stopping Flo from pulling thw trigger
Mbappe is among the best in the world, no doubt about that.
Again, I don't claim that Haaland is a better allround player than Mbappe, they are very different. Haaland is a better goalscorer. Which his numbers is evidence of.
"How many league titles did Ibra and Cavani win with Monaco?"
It's a meaningless question. How many Serie A or LaLiga titles does Mbappe have?
I really don't think Mbappe will struggle at Real Madrid or in the PL, but that's for him to prove. He's not getting the best matching while playing for PSG in Ligue 1. It's simply too easy for the best players.
Mbappe for PSG:
255 goals and 108 assists in 24489 minutes
0,93 goals/90
1,33 goals+assists/90
Look at Zlatan's PSG numbers compared to at other relevant clubs:
Zlatan at PSG:
156 goals and 62 assists in 15090 minutes
0,93 goals/90
1,30 goals+assists/90
Zlatan at Juve:
26 goals and 19 assists in 6867 minutes
0,34 goals/90
0,66 goals + assists/90
Zlatan at Inter:
66 goals and 30 assists in 9712 minutes
0,61 goals/90
0,89 goals+assists/90
Zlatan at Barca:
22 goals and 13 assists in 3334 minutes
0,59 goals/90
0,94 goals+assists/90
It's definitely not a certainty that Mbappe keeps up his PSG numbers at Real Madrid or in the PL should he go there. I'd say it's pretty likely that his numbers will decrease a bit.
RM were not that great until about half way through that period, and Barca were poor at the end. We had far better teams for them to complete with back then, only City now could compete imo