Ah, sorry I misunderstood your post.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Yes definitely.
Politics, especially with 2 main parties is cyclical.
After the sheer struggle of the mountain of problems, ever government gets worn down and the public gets fed up of the failures and broken promises.
At some point this is going to happen to Starmer/ Labour and the Tories will again appeal to the voters.
And I would not write off Boris from making a reappearance. They will have do anything for it not to be Farage. But who knows eh.
Maybe so, but that wasn't what we were debating.
Even though the UK do have a responsibility to help resolving it giving their history in the conflict.
It's strange to go out of your way to bat for someone like Starmer.
I did not call you uneducated? I called you uneducated on the subject, "the Palestanian", a conclusion I built upon your prior interactions. I am sorry if I offended. That was not my intention.
You expect too much of the UK - given it’s self-imposed isolation after Brexit, there is no way it will go directly against a key US policy. Neither have most of the other West European nations for that matter (unlike the invasion of Iraq in 2003).
As for Starmer, it’s simple voting tactics - the sad truth is that most British people don’t really care that much about this issue while taking an anti-Israeli position risks re-opening the anti-Semitic narrative of the Corbyn years. Also, there is no obvious strategic rationale for the UK to support Palestine (unlike Ukraine). It’s not morally defensible but since when did morality dictate national policy?
I fully get why some voters will defect to the Greens over this issue. Maybe I would too but my MP was dismissed from the shadow cabinet over this issue and so it seems right to support him.
Yeah same here, in the choice between Corbyn and Johnson it was easy to pick Jezza. But I'm certain he would have been an abject failure with Ukraine and that represents such a threat to us that it would have been disastrous. I'm hoping Keir is just playing it cool and not pissing off the left or right too much so that he can get into office and work on maintaining a centrist government for the forseeable future.
I like the LibDems, Davey and Daisy seem like genuinely good people, and having them in opposition would be great as Labour can do deals with them. But you just know Starmer is going to keep getting hit from the nutty left and loud voices on the terrifying right harping on about wedge issues all while trying to solve almost insurmountable financial problems in every department. He's got a huge job ahead.
Do Israel give one single feck about anything we tell them? They dance to the US tunes, not ours.
good effort...Unconditional support of Israel with the way they have been behaving isn't sustainable, US hegemony is slowly declining. It's not about whether Israel listen to us only, once the UK change their position, France are more likely to then other countries will follow suit. But we have to take that first step even if it seems futile in this very moment. Leaving things like they are will be how we looked back at apartheid in SA. I would hope we wouldn't be on the wrong side of history again.
I've already explained to Grinner above why this unconditional support of Israel isn't sustainable and things are changing, Norway, Ireland and Spain recently recognised a Palestinian state, this won't make a difference in the short run but I'm sure it's starting to make other European countries think twice about it and I would hope it is a start of a domino on this matter.
Why are France waiting for us to make a first move? As for SA, as usual the story is more complicated,
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela
You do you.