Keeping Midfield Strong

bucky said:
Renato Sanches has signed for Munich. Xhaka seems to be going to Arsenal. Let's assume we won't be able to attract or get Saul. Gündogan is injured. Let's also assume Kante wouldn't work out for us, similar to Schneiderlin so far.

Who would you like to sign then? Would you want us to focus on other areas, because the alternatives aren't convincing?
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Oguzhan Ozyakup from Besiktas

Aged 23, very creative, 10 goals & 8 Assists. Seen a few Besiktas games and he litterally runs the show, maybe if someone has more info on him would be helpful.

Could see him as the 8 in our midfield. Besiktas currently play 4231 and he is playing as a CDM. From the 3 or 4 Besiktas matches iv seen, he is the missing link between our midfield and attack, he is never static and always on the move creating space and going on supurb runs. Counter attacks could be devastating with this guy.

Ozyakup - Herrera
Schneiderlin​

YouTube as always:



Best game play video I could find:

 
NoLogo said:
Has Gündogan agreed a deal yet? I still think we need someone with his passing range in the center. We should move haven and earth to bring him here.
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He's dislocated his knee cap. Such a talented player but his injuries are too big a concern. I wanted him last summer as he's a great Carrick replacement, but now I'm not so sure.

He's also been linked to City recently.
 
worldinmotion66 said:
He's dislocated his knee cap. Such a talented player but his injuries are too big a concern. I wanted him last summer as he's a great Carrick replacement, but now I'm not so sure.

He's also been linked to City recently.
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Well but it's not a recurring injury so not like it's chronic, just bad luck imo. Still worth a punt imo. I know there was a link with City but as long as nothing is signed there is still hope.

As far as Carrick goes, he wouldn't replace him, not good enough defensively. If we really want to replace Carrick look no further then Wiegl. Very intelligent defensive midfielder whit a great passing range.
 
Tbh I think blind is probably one of the better carrick replacements out there.
I think we just need quality more than a specific kind of player.
We have a lot of decent midfielders but no great ones.
 
Cheekiey said:
Oguzhan Ozyakup from Besiktas

Aged 23, very creative, 10 goals & 8 Assists. Seen a few Besiktas games and he litterally runs the show, maybe if someone has more info on him would be helpful.

Could see him as the 8 in our midfield. Besiktas currently play 4231 and he is playing as a CDM. From the 3 or 4 Besiktas matches iv seen, he is the missing link between our midfield and attack, he is never static and always on the move creating space and going on supurb runs. Counter attacks could be devastating with this guy.

Ozyakup - Herrera
Schneiderlin​

YouTube as always:



Best game play video I could find:

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Appreciate hearing about someone I know nothing about. Thanks! The step-up from the Turkish league to the EPL is probably difficult though.
 
bucky said:
Appreciate hearing about someone I know nothing about. Thanks! The step-up from the Turkish league to the EPL is probably difficult though.
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Yeah that's true, I don't think they will demand over £20m for him, but if he has the mentality to step up his game, he will turn out to be Gundogan esque. Could be a potential world class CM. I bet Arsenal feel idiots that they let him go! (Was at Arsenal since he was 15)
 
If Rooney is going to play in the midfield... What do you think of this:
Martial - Striker - Winger
Rooney - Saul
Xhaka
​
Do you think it's well balanced?

IMO Kante is a bit similar to Schneiderlin, I hope Morgan improves his game under a new manager. Kroos is a class player but he is not mobile enough to play as No.8, also he doesn't have defensive skills as Xhaka to play No.6. I like Gundogan but he could be heading to City, Pogba and Verrati are unrealistic, and James/Gotze/Fekir/... are not that good in a 433.

We have been linked with Joao Mario, is he better than Saul? I really hope that if Mourinho arrives, he can attract quality players.

Bazoer, Neves, Tielemans have potential to be good midfielders, but they have been inconsistent the games I have seen this season. Mainly the last 2.
 
Maybe buying a strong CDM like Wanyama could be a different way of solving the midfield rather than the Gundogan's of this world.

Schneiderlin is a great defensive player, but not really physically imposing. At Southampton he had Wanyama as partner and they complemented each other great.

It would certainly not be the most technical midfield, but it could be effective and make us very difficult to break down while giving the front 4 freedom to attack without having to focus as much on defending.

We've seen at times this season how Fellaini has been vital for us. His presence give us something we lack and of course is a huge plus in aerial duels/set pieces.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
Maybe buying a strong CDM like Wanyama could be a different way of solving the midfield rather than the Gundogan's of this world.

Schneiderlin is a great defensive player, but not really physically imposing. At Southampton he had Wanyama as partner and they complemented each other great.

It would certainly not be the most technical midfield, but it could be effective and make us very difficult to break down while giving the front 4 freedom to attack without having to focus as much on defending.

We've seen at times this season how Fellaini has been vital for us. His presence give us something we lack and of course is a huge plus in aerial duels/set pieces.
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Adding more mediocrity to an area of the squad already filled with it is not the way to go IMO. Our biggest problem is the fact Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini and now Rooney are making up our midfield options, 3 of them are past their best and all 4 of them are lacking mobility, agility and a real engine.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
Maybe buying a strong CDM like Wanyama could be a different way of solving the midfield rather than the Gundogan's of this world.

Schneiderlin is a great defensive player, but not really physically imposing. At Southampton he had Wanyama as partner and they complemented each other great.

It would certainly not be the most technical midfield, but it could be effective and make us very difficult to break down while giving the front 4 freedom to attack without having to focus as much on defending.

We've seen at times this season how Fellaini has been vital for us. His presence give us something we lack and of course is a huge plus in aerial duels/set pieces.
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Don't you think a player like Kroos or even Xhaka could be a better option?
Wanyama is a decent/good midfielder, but I think there could be better players available.

If we are able to sign Zlatan and Sane to our attack, we should analyze which CM would be the best option with Rooney (assuming he is a starter) and I guess Schneiderlin.
 
Fer said:
Don't you think a player like Kroos or even Xhaka could be a better option?
Wanyama is a decent/good midfielder, but I think there could be better players available.

If we are able to sign Zlatan and Sane to our attack, we should analyze which CM would be the best option with Rooney (assuming he is a starter) and I guess Schneiderlin.
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Wanyama was just an idea to solve the midfield on the cheap, but yes, there is much better players out there.

Kroos is a fantastic passing player, but he is quite slow and not exactly a dynamic player.

Xhaka would be my first choice, but it looks like Arsenal have him in the bag.

The problem is also that we don't know how to get most out of Schneiderlin. Is he a holding midfielder or is he a box-to-box? Maybe he isn't good enough at all.

My favourite midfield is a trio with a deep lying playmaker as pivot(Carrick/Xhaka/Alonso), a box-to-box(Vidal/Nainggolan/Strootman) and a creative midfielder(Pjanic/Thiago/Sneijder).

Rooney would be the creative type if he is a starter next year.

Then we have Fellaini and Herrera for the B2B role, but they have not shown they are good enough to be key players. Nainggolan fits the bill but Chelsea is strongly linked. Kante i can see doing well in that position.

Carrick, Schweinsteiger and Blind could play the pivot role but ideally we sign a new one here also. Problem is they are hard to find, only players i can think of is Xhaka/Weigl and neither looks like be heading to us. Maybe we will have to do with what we got.
 
Amazing how bad our midfield has turned out this season. Surely all 6 CMs in the squad can't be useless? Because they all have been, all season. Herrera and Scneiderlin's lack of development has been especially disappointing.
 
Devil may care said:
Adding more mediocrity to an area of the squad already filled with it is not the way to go IMO. Our biggest problem is the fact Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini and now Rooney are making up our midfield options, 3 of them are past their best and all 4 of them are lacking mobility, agility and a real engine.
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I wouldn't be surprised if at least 2 of the first 3 mentioned are gone by September. I'd move all 3. Sorry Michael :( That would free up some space.

I wouldn't lump Rooney in there regarding mobility either. He's not that quick for a striker anymore but as CM's go he's pretty mobile. His problem has been his lack of understanding of his role as a midfielder. If he wanted to be he could be a much better version of Herrera which would be ideal for us. Instead he seems to be trying to be Paul Scholes. Seemed to have the right idea against Bournemouth though.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
The problem is also that we don't know how to get most out of Schneiderlin. Is he a holding midfielder or is he a box-to-box? Maybe he isn't good enough at all.

Maybe we will have to do with what we got.
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I take it it's a 433 you talking about with 3 midfielders.

Schneiderlin in his Southampton days played as a box to box which displayed his best performances and generated the interest of the top BPL clubs.

Like you said Rooney is going to start no matter what. Creative midfielder check.

I would like to see Schneiderlin be given the chance to play his best role again imo. Box-to-box check.

Deep lying playmaker could be a problem, hopefully Carrick can stay 1 more year and Schweinsteiger can get over his injuries because he would be perfect in that role or even Blind who I think is quite underrated. I think playing a season in defense has helped him on his defensive side of things. I wouldn't mind seeing Fellaini play there either because wether you hate him or really hate him he isn't as bad as people make out. 1st choice Carrick, 2nd Schweinsteiger, 3rd Blind, 4th Fellaini.

Yes, that Midfield is lacking pace but our defense hopefully can be more than capable of handling it with a new CB signing.

I think 433 should be played at Home and 4231 away.
 
SteveW said:
I wouldn't be surprised if at least 2 of the first 3 mentioned are gone by September. I'd move all 3. Sorry Michael :( That would free up some space.

I wouldn't lump Rooney in there regarding mobility either. He's not that quick for a striker anymore but as CM's go he's pretty mobile. His problem has been his lack of understanding of his role as a midfielder. If he wanted to be he could be a much better version of Herrera which would be ideal for us. Instead he seems to be trying to be Paul Scholes. Seemed to have the right idea against Bournemouth though.
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I have no real faith in Rooney, especially if he will take the role as midfield playmaker, I think that would be a huge risk. He will be starting all of the time though so hopefully we go with a 3 man midfield to offset the fact he's not really a CM. I think Blind and Schweinsteiger will compete for the #6 next season so we'll need a creative #8 to pair with Rooney.
 
Cheekiey said:
I take it it's a 433 you talking about with 3 midfielders.

Schneiderlin in his Southampton days played as a box to box which displayed his best performances and generated the interest of the top BPL clubs.

Like you said Rooney is going to start no matter what. Creative midfielder check.

I would like to see Schneiderlin be given the chance to play his best role again imo. Box-to-box check.

Deep lying playmaker could be a problem, hopefully Carrick can stay 1 more year and Schweinsteiger can get over his injuries because he would be perfect in that role or even Blind who I think is quite underrated. I think playing a season in defense has helped him on his defensive side of things. I wouldn't mind seeing Fellaini play there either because wether you hate him or really hate him he isn't as bad as people make out. 1st choice Carrick, 2nd Schweinsteiger, 3rd Blind, 4th Fellaini.

Yes, that Midfield is lacking pace but our defense hopefully can be more than capable of handling it with a new CB signing.

I think 433 should be played at Home and 4231 away.
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Yeah, it was 4-3-3.

IMO Schneiderlin is not technical or creative enough to play as the box-to-box in a 4-3-3.

I want Fellaini to stay, but it would be as backup to one of the cm positions, not as a pivot.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
Yeah, it was 4-3-3.

IMO Schneiderlin is not technical or creative enough to play as the box-to-box in a 4-3-3.

I want Fellaini to stay, but it would be as backup to one of the cm positions, not as a pivot.
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Theres half a dozen or more ways to play a 4-3-3. Which version of it isnt he technically or creatively not good enough for?
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
B2B B2B
DLP​
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That still doesnt cover it. You can play long ball with a 4-3-3, you can play a short passing game with a 4-3-3, you can play with width in a 4-3-3, you can play narrow in a 4-3-3, you can play a counter attack defensive setup with a 4-3-3, you can play a high pressing defensive setup with a 4-3-3.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
Yeah, it was 4-3-3.

IMO Schneiderlin is not technical or creative enough to play as the box-to-box in a 4-3-3.

I want Fellaini to stay, but it would be as backup to one of the cm positions, not as a pivot.
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If you wanted to go a bit more defensive he could be a good option.
He'd work well as the 6 with someone like gundogan imo. I'd consider schweinsteiger more of an 8 personally, they didn't really hit it off but it was functional enough at least.
A year under their belt might help too.

If your going for a carrick like player at dm then blind is a decent choice and i'd be looking to add a good b2b to go with him.
Like Pogba maybe, that'd be a good muppet signing.
 
Stack said:
That still doesnt cover it. You can play long ball with a 4-3-3, you can play a short passing game with a 4-3-3, you can play with width in a 4-3-3, you can play narrow in a 4-3-3, you can play a counter attack defensive setup with a 4-3-3, you can play a high pressing defensive setup with a 4-3-3.
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I don't think he fits in any of these setups, i'm no manager though.

caid said:
If you wanted to go a bit more defensive he could be a good option.
He'd work well as the 6 with someone like gundogan imo. I'd consider schweinsteiger more of an 8 personally, they didn't really hit it off but it was functional enough at least.
A year under their belt might help too.

If your going for a carrick like player at dm then blind is a decent choice and i'd be looking to add a good b2b to go with him.
Like Pogba maybe, that'd be a good muppet signing.
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Yeah, it could work if he played as a water carrier with a playmaker close to him like Gundogan. Problem is, where do we find a playmaker like that?
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
I don't think he fits in any of these setups, i'm no manager though.
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You missed the point. Its not a simple case of picking a formation and then picking players you think would suit. Thats what computer games are teaching people. Players play to instructions and no matter what formation a team uses they can play any style of football within that formation. A great example of the confusion around formations is the 4-4-2 where people refer to it as having a midfield 2 in defense and it being over run by a 4-3-3. The reality is that there are 4 midfielders in a 4-4-2 and out of possession players have jobs and roles depending on what their coaches and managers have asked them to do in certain situations. One of the most basic fundamentals that kids are taught as they learn the game is to get compact when out of possession. The wide players dont have to stay out wide when out of possession. Defending narrow can be done with absolutely any formation, its not the formation that determines the playing system.
 
An Irish Red said:
If Mourinho comes here I honestly think he'll opt for Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger as a double pivot behind a new signing in a 4-2-3-1.
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Where do you think he'd squeeze Rooney in though? I couldn't see him binning England's captain and this iconic player off straight away.
He's brave, but not that brave!
 
Stack said:
You missed the point. Its not a simple case of picking a formation and then picking players you think would suit. Thats what computer games are teaching people. Players play to instructions and no matter what formation a team uses they can play any style of football within that formation. A great example of the confusion around formations is the 4-4-2 where people refer to it as having a midfield 2 in defense and it being over run by a 4-3-3. The reality is that there are 4 midfielders in a 4-4-2 and out of possession players have jobs and roles depending on what their coaches and managers have asked them to do in certain situations. One of the most basic fundamentals that kids are taught as they learn the game is to get compact when out of possession. The wide players dont have to stay out wide when out of possession. Defending narrow can be done with absolutely any formation, its not the formation that determines the playing system.
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I don't think i missed the point, i know that a 4-4-2 can be very defensive, i think Atletico and Leicester has taught us all that.

What i was saying is that i'm not sure Schneiderlin has the overall game to be a more attacking box-to-box.
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
I don't think i missed the point, i know that a 4-4-2 can be very defensive, i think Atletico and Leicester has taught us all that.

What i was saying is that i'm not sure Schneiderlin has the overall game to be a more attacking box-to-box.
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Sure, understood. Sorry if it came out the wrong way.
 
We have a lot of players that can play in midfield:

CDM(#6)
Fosu-Mensah
Carrick
Blind

CM(#8)
Schweinsteiger
Schneiderlin
Herrera

CAM(#10)
Fellaini
Pereira
Mata
Januzaj
Rooney

I didn't mention Powell and Lingard, but I think they can also play as attacking midfielders. With the players we have, what kind of CM do we need?

Assuming that Rooney is going to be a starter, I guess the other player could be Schneiderlin (if he improves). So, which player would bring balance to a midfield with Rooney-Scheniderlin?

I could be wrong about the best position of the players I mentioned... So, what's the best position in midfield of the those players?
 
This team needs firepower up front. A player or players that can beat a man and create something on their own. The Messis of this world are out of reach but at least somebody like Suarez for Liverpool or Bale for Spurs or van Persie for us. When you have that firepower and are scoring goals, a Schneiderlin is someone "who keeps it simple, allows others to play and does the dirty work". When the team is toothless the way it is now, he "doesn't do enough". Both are correct in a way but it just goes to show that top players in the attacking third make the most significant difference on the pitch.
 
I don't think Schweinsteiger is a #8. He doesn't have the stamina anymore. I am not sure why the caf thinks Fosu-Mensah is a #6 either. He's pretty good going forward and currently I'd prefer him in a box-to-box role, when he plays in midfield. He could become a more defensive midfielder later on.

Most important is probably an upgrade for the CAM role, but that opens up the problem of where to play Rooney. And we need someone to dictate games with his passing, since Carrick is at the end of his career and Schweinsteiger is injury-prone. Sadly the good players in that regard are rare and the best ones seem to be going to Arsenal and City.
 
bucky said:
I don't think Schweinsteiger is a #8. He doesn't have the stamina anymore. I am not sure why the caf thinks Fosu-Mensah is a #6 either. He's pretty good going forward and currently I'd prefer him in a box-to-box role, when he plays in midfield. He could become a more defensive midfielder later on.

Most important is probably an upgrade for the CAM role, but that opens up the problem of where to play Rooney. And we need someone to dictate games with his passing, since Carrick is at the end of his career and Schweinsteiger is injury-prone. Sadly the good players in that regard are rare and the best ones seem to be going to Arsenal and City.
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I like the way you are thinking on this, I think we could rotate Schweinsteiger, Carrick and Blind for the CDM role and play TFM in the Essien type of role and Herrera/upgrade on him as the other albeit more offensive box to box CM. Sort of like what Juve used to do with Pirlo - surround him with runners and physicality which would allow Carrick the time and space to influence games with his passing and intelligence.
 
bucky said:
I don't think Schweinsteiger is a #8. He doesn't have the stamina anymore. I am not sure why the caf thinks Fosu-Mensah is a #6 either. He's pretty good going forward and currently I'd prefer him in a box-to-box role, when he plays in midfield. He could become a more defensive midfielder later on.

Most important is probably an upgrade for the CAM role, but that opens up the problem of where to play Rooney. And we need someone to dictate games with his passing, since Carrick is at the end of his career and Schweinsteiger is injury-prone. Sadly the good players in that regard are rare and the best ones seem to be going to Arsenal and City.
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Agreed with this. For me our main priority for midfield is a passer. Carrick at 34 is still our best midfielder because he is our best passer of the ball. We need a Granit or a Gungoden to take over the mantel
 
Schweinsteiger - Fat and injury prone
Fellaini - arghh...
Carrick - Does he have another year? I don't know the correct answer
Schneiderlin - Has disappointed. Should improve.
Herrera - Good squad player
Blind - Back up to a back-up

We have the numbers but are seriously lacking in quality. I think we need two: a top CDM and a creative passer.
 
SteveW said:
Amazing how bad our midfield has turned out this season. Surely all 6 CMs in the squad can't be useless? Because they all have been, all season. Herrera and Scneiderlin's lack of development has been especially disappointing.
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Couldnt agree more. Schweinsteiger is way past his best, Fellaini was never ever a Utd player, I didnt want Schneiderlin either, we have wasted so much money on the wrong midfield players but Herrera has really been a let down this season. I love his attitude and he maybe hasnt been given the opportunities but he hasnt deserved them either, though he might be a big player for us but regardless of a change of manager I really dont think so now. With what we have, I think Mensah could well develop into a top midfielder, we definately need make a signing in that position though and ditch a few of those we have I think
 
SteveW said:
Amazing how bad our midfield has turned out this season. Surely all 6 CMs in the squad can't be useless? Because they all have been, all season. Herrera and Scneiderlin's lack of development has been especially disappointing.
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It's quite incredible. We obviously have to move forward under the assumption that both Schneiderlin and Herrera will kick on next season, Schweinsteiger can hardly be shown the door given how recently he joined but I just can't see what he offers us at this point in his career.

Will Fellaini stay? Carrick? Our issue with midfield persists, despite throwing copious amounts of money at the problem. At this point I'd be more inclined to trust Fosu-Mensah with a leading role, though I can't imagine Mourinho will see it that way. Kante looks absolutely attainable and we surely need a runner in the middle
 
This is still essential, I keep seeing people post Schneiderlin/Schweini/Rooney as our midfield 3 which makes me shudder. I'd rather give Blind a shot as the #6 if we get a big CB in to partner Smalling, however we have to get an athletic and dynamic CM into this team to make the runs to support Ibra, otherwise we'll be as one paced in transitioning from defense to attack as we have been this season.
 
Devil may care said:
This is still essential, I keep seeing people post Schneiderlin/Schweini/Rooney as our midfield 3 which makes me shudder. I'd rather give Blind a shot as the #6 if we get a big CB in to partner Smalling, however we have to get an athletic and dynamic CM into this team to make the runs to support Ibra, otherwise we'll be as one paced in transitioning from defense to attack as we have been this season.
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Definitely... Blind can do a decent job as #6. And as you mentioned, we still need to buy a dynamic midfielder. Maybe that's why we were linked with Sanches and Saul months ago.
 
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