I agree that if he can't get past Lingard then he's got problems and in truth I am only 50/50 on if he can make it here, I just think we'll give him another season before putting a second £35M option in the way. Looking at that I think something will have to give with Rooney for Ibra to come in, I know Ibra is comfortably better but it's going to be hard to bench a 260k a week Captain for a player 4 years older then him, I just can't see them co-existing.
Keeping Midfield Strong
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
I agree that if he can't get past Lingard then he's got problems and in truth I am only 50/50 on if he can make it here, I just think we'll give him another season before putting a second £35M option in the way. Looking at that I think something will have to give with Rooney for Ibra to come in, I know Ibra is comfortably better but it's going to be hard to bench a 260k a week Captain for a player 4 years older then him, I just can't see them co-existing.
I want two wide wingers because
a- Martial is a striker
b- our wingers do not score enough goals. If we leave Martial aside our topscorer on the flank is Depay (7 goals 4 of which with championship opposition) and Lingard (5 measly goals - 3 of which against shit opposition).Now lets have a look at the top wingers around. Mahrez 18 goals, Bale 17 goals, Reus 15 goals, Sanchez 14 goals, Sterling 12 goals, Dembele 10 goals in 20 matches, Mane and Robben at 9 goals.Please note that I am avoiding the Messis, Ronaldos and Neymars here
That's unacceptable for a club who had always relied on the flanks for creativity and goals especially in a 4-2-3-1 system were wingers are more like left/right sided forwards. Its also puts so much stress on the forward line as defenders dont have to worry too much of our flankmen to score goals and can focus in marking the striker out of the game.
c- our wingers are a bit shit. Lets have a look at what we have. Young is squad player at best however the standards had gone down so much that these days he's one of our best options, Depay was horrible this year, Januzaj keep on being mentioned around like he's some sort of new Ronaldo and that's because he was decent for a couple of months after Moyes (he was crap both under LVG and at Dortmund), Valencia is so shit that we're playing him as RB and Lingard is quite a nice guy but he can't cross, he can't dribble and struggle to score goals (which is quite ironic considering that with a measly number of 5 goals he is among our best top scorers on the flanks).
If we have a team which is well stocked with mid table type of players then no wonder we struggle to make it to top 4. I am not saying that we should sell them all. What I am saying is keep Januzaj/Lingard and Depay as squad players and bring in some quality wingers. If Depay can prove to be better then Dembele than it would be a matter of a 25m signing putting a 40m signing on the bench. These are the sort of quality strength in depth and competition we need to return on top
Depay has looked absolutely awful. He has shown almost no signs of having the talent to be at the level United need a winger to be.
In his brilliance this season he has shown one thing quite stone cold. He's not ready to play at #9 yet. The biggest problem is his wizardry on the ball has eclipsed Memphis who is fighting for that left-forward position. I think Memphis could grow as a player but for the life of Martial's contract until he signs an extension (in a few years basically) he'll be playing on the left. It is where he will be most effective.
Where Memphis goes after this disappointing season will define his career.
I don't disagree about the need for attacking reinforcements, it's the fact I think Martial can play the same way as Neymar off the left of a front 3, with a new #9 and new RWF.
In the current team and with the current system I am inclined to agree. However the team I am suggesting is not the current team and not playing in the current system.
When you go to the nitty gritty of statistics you notice that our forward line had been delivering the goods. They could have done better of course but considering the system we're playing and the lack of quality in midfield and especially the flanks, they did their job fairly well. What failed us was the lack of players capable of creating and scoring goals elsewhere especially on the flanks. As said before our wingers are nowhere near in terms of goal scoring form to players like Mahrez, Sterling and Bale let alone Ronaldo, Neymar and the Messi.
If we add top quality wingers then the defense attention will be diverted elsewhere allowing strikers more space to score more. In that scenario I believe strongly that Martial can play in his natural role now
I totally agree. Players like Griezmann, Mahrez and Dembele can create more opportunities for our striker. Also, they can score around 15+ goals. Martial is definitely talented, if he is surrounded with top class players he wuldimprove in the striker position.
Let's not forget that we still have Rooney (I think he will stay) and Rashford if needed. A french attack of Dembele-Martial-Griezmann could take us to the next level.
I am glad you understand my line of thought. Many think that its going to be easy to get rid of Rooney. Its certainly not the case. He's the highest paid player at the club, he's on the wane, he's a relatively local lad (Manchester isn't that far from Craster's keep) and he's on a long term contract. If he is transfer listed then I doubt that many clubs would want him and those who do will probably not afford his salary. Under such circumstances he can easily dig his heels and remain here if he wants to.
Rooney may not be world class anymore but he can still score goals + in Martial/Rashford we've probably got the two most promising strikers in the country. If we change system, bring quality in our attacking department and bulk up the midfield then I believe we would be fine. Seriously I can't believe that this team would struggle in scoring goals
-------------Bastian/Blind----------Schneiderlin/DM-------------
Mahrez---------------------Griezmann-------------------------Dembele
------------------------Rooney/Martial/Rashford----------------
^^^ No point in Dembele and Mahrez as Martial would be starting most games on the LW if Rooney stays.
Anyway, midfield is still a big issue for us and unlike forward positions and defense there isn't a great crop of prospects in the Academy. It seems like we'll sign Renato Sanches but hopefully we'll add another as well with Carrick and Fellaini going.
That leaves:
Blind - Might be given a chance to play as a #6
Herrera - CHe's an AM, can't play in 2 man base
Schweini - Injury prone, aging and unreliable
Schneiderlin - Offers very little on the ball
We could probably do with a proven top CM added but we have seemingly missed out on Gundogan and the likes of Pogba, Verratti and Koke are unlikely. We've been linked with Anfdre Gomes and Saul quite a bit so maybe one of them will fit into the rotation.
Anyway, midfield is still a big issue for us and unlike forward positions and defense there isn't a great crop of prospects in the Academy. It seems like we'll sign Renato Sanches but hopefully we'll add another as well with Carrick and Fellaini going.
That leaves:
Blind - Might be given a chance to play as a #6
Herrera - CHe's an AM, can't play in 2 man base
Schweini - Injury prone, aging and unreliable
Schneiderlin - Offers very little on the ball
We could probably do with a proven top CM added but we have seemingly missed out on Gundogan and the likes of Pogba, Verratti and Koke are unlikely. We've been linked with Anfdre Gomes and Saul quite a bit so maybe one of them will fit into the rotation.
Agree. With one of Mahrez or Dembele would be enough. Mainly if we sign a top player like Griezmann to support our striker (I guess it will be Rooney).
Besides Renato Sanches, a creative midfielder would be a nice addition. Do you think Andres Gomes or Saul are better options than Barkley or Isco in a midfield of 3?
Isco and Barkley are both good but they operate as an AM in the midfield 3 and I imagine that is where we'll shoehorn Rooney in next season.
Not much linking us with Pogba, but we know Mourinho rates him very highly. Would be a great buy.
I have a feeling City might throw their petrodollars at Juve and him.
This guy is clearly attainable, but at a very high fee. I've heard 100m Euros banded about.
The likes of him and Griezmann are of the calibre we need to get back to where we should be. Obviously, those two alone would be over £150m though.
I have a feeling City might throw their petrodollars at Juve and him.
This guy is clearly attainable, but at a very high fee. I've heard 100m Euros banded about.
The likes of him and Griezmann are of the calibre we need to get back to where we should be. Obviously, those two alone would be over £150m though.
I'd give him one more season though. Players like that often need the right manager to get them going, and Mourinho is known for being able to get the best out of players when others can't. I'd like to see if that makes a difference before we ship him off.
I still think Kondogbia could be a great option to improve us in midfield.
Now that it seems Rooney is setting up to be a CM and shoehorn himself into Untied and England that way, we are going to need to buy a couple of strong, athletic CM's to help cover for him being fairly immobile in there.
You are right. At least Renato Sanches looks like an athletic midfielder.
It wouldn't be bad if we sign another CM. I like Kante but he is a bit similar to Sanches and Schneiderlin. We need a player that could offer something different, maybe someone more creative who is able to control the tempo of the game.
If Rooney is going to play as CM I prefer him in a midfield of 3 than in a 4231 as No.10.
Yes, whether a #8 or a #6 we need to add a playmaker to the midfield options.
Di Marzio website saying we are interested in Andre Gomes. Him and Sanches both coming could help our midfield quite a bit you would imagine
David Amoyal
26-04-2016 20:10
Andre Gomes is one of the hottest names on the transfer market. The Valencia midfielder is being pursued by many top European clubs and he will be mentioned a lot in the summer transfer window. In Italy both Napoli and Juventus are interested in signing him and they could make some concrete steps forward soon. In fact Andre Gomes' agent Jose Mendes is expected in Italy likely on Friday, he could have some meetings in Milano for his client. A summit with Juventus is certainly expected and Mendes will likely also meet with Napoli or someone representing them. After this trip on Italy more will be known about Andre Gomes' future.
Andre Gomes also has suitors outside of Italy. Manchester United continues to be interested. Serie A clubs continue to monitor the situation and hope to land one of the best midfielder prospects on the market- what looks likely is that Andre Gomes is on his way out at Valencia.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...italy-possible-meetings-with-juventus-napoli/
David Amoyal
26-04-2016 20:10
Andre Gomes is one of the hottest names on the transfer market. The Valencia midfielder is being pursued by many top European clubs and he will be mentioned a lot in the summer transfer window. In Italy both Napoli and Juventus are interested in signing him and they could make some concrete steps forward soon. In fact Andre Gomes' agent Jose Mendes is expected in Italy likely on Friday, he could have some meetings in Milano for his client. A summit with Juventus is certainly expected and Mendes will likely also meet with Napoli or someone representing them. After this trip on Italy more will be known about Andre Gomes' future.
Andre Gomes also has suitors outside of Italy. Manchester United continues to be interested. Serie A clubs continue to monitor the situation and hope to land one of the best midfielder prospects on the market- what looks likely is that Andre Gomes is on his way out at Valencia.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...italy-possible-meetings-with-juventus-napoli/
I think he's nailed for Juve.
Gomes has a stack of potential but is still very inconsistent.
I don'tr think LvG can be solely blamed for what we are seeing in midfield, I think we need more work done there than I did when I started this thread. The fact our best CM is still a 35 year old that can barely move is a damning indictment of those bought over the last 2 summers.
I cant believe after all the money spent since Fergie left, it still seems like we need an entirely new midfield 
Maybe we have a midfield, but the midfield doesn't have us
Deep shit
Deep shit
I cant believe after all the money spent since Fergie left, it still seems like we need an entirely new midfield
Nearly feel nostalgic for the shitty midfield of fergusons last year. Was it better? Or was the rest of the team around it just more functional?
Or is it just the shitty tactics we currently play?
Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Blind, Schneiderlin, Fosu-Mensah, Fellaini, Herrera, Pereira, Mata, Januzaj, Lingard and Rooney... 12 players for 3 positions and we still need new midfielders :/
Fellaini £30m, Herrera £30m Schneiderlin £25m, Schweinsteiger (don't know) and yet we have Wayne Rooney in midfield. We've spent the money, we've brought in the players but they're underperforming or they're injured or they're banned. Not good enough.
Renato Sanches has signed for Munich. Xhaka seems to be going to Arsenal. Let's assume we won't be able to attract or get Saul. Gündogan is injured. Let's also assume Kante wouldn't work out for us, similar to Schneiderlin so far.
Who would you like to sign then? Would you want us to focus on other areas, because the alternatives aren't convincing?
Who would you like to sign then? Would you want us to focus on other areas, because the alternatives aren't convincing?
There are so many good young CM's around Europe at the moment. I hope our scouting team picks a Martial and not a memphis
Schneiderlin, Herrera, Fellaini and Schweini should just feck off. If we are going to climb out of this rut we definitely need better.
Just Herrera and Fellaini. Herrara seems to be missing a sat nav in his head and Fellaini well..
If United miss top four, my assumption is that Mourinho is coming. If that is the case, then I don't see much future in midfield for Blind (way too slow/lacking physicality for a Mourinho midfielder), Herrera (not nearly positionally/tactically disciplined enough to play for Jose, and doesn't have the passing skills to compensate), or Fellaini (all sorts of flaws). I could see Carrick and Schweinsteiger sticking around, but only as depth options.
I think Schneiderlin could make a very good Mourinho player, probably as the backup 6 who can also be a very aggressive 8 in matches where Mourinho wants to be particularly secure and play on the counter. Schneiderlin also had some memorably good games for Saints against Chelsea during Mourinho's time there and I'm sure that didn't go unnoticed. I think Jose would sign another 6 who could do similar things, and Kante fits the bill very well.
In his last couple stops, Mourinho has also moved toward having at least one central midfielder who can really pass and start the offense from deep, at least for certain matchups. He added Fabregas at Chelsea and almost always played either Xabi Alonso or Modric at Real. Andre Gomes makes a lot of sense. He has been moved around like a chesspiece by Mendes the last few years, so ending up with Mourinho at United is sort of a perfect end game. He is also pretty tall and that would help compensate for the fact that Kante is on the short side.
Kante-Gomes with Schneiderlin as the primary backup and then Schweinsteiger and Carrick as depth to cover for injuries. That seems very attainable this summer for United. You could do (and have done) a lot worse.
I think Schneiderlin could make a very good Mourinho player, probably as the backup 6 who can also be a very aggressive 8 in matches where Mourinho wants to be particularly secure and play on the counter. Schneiderlin also had some memorably good games for Saints against Chelsea during Mourinho's time there and I'm sure that didn't go unnoticed. I think Jose would sign another 6 who could do similar things, and Kante fits the bill very well.
In his last couple stops, Mourinho has also moved toward having at least one central midfielder who can really pass and start the offense from deep, at least for certain matchups. He added Fabregas at Chelsea and almost always played either Xabi Alonso or Modric at Real. Andre Gomes makes a lot of sense. He has been moved around like a chesspiece by Mendes the last few years, so ending up with Mourinho at United is sort of a perfect end game. He is also pretty tall and that would help compensate for the fact that Kante is on the short side.
Kante-Gomes with Schneiderlin as the primary backup and then Schweinsteiger and Carrick as depth to cover for injuries. That seems very attainable this summer for United. You could do (and have done) a lot worse.
I don't think we can afford to just skip buying new CM's this summer, we are still really lacking there and I think those that think they'll all suddenly come good under Jose are kidding themselves. If all of the ones you list are unavailable I'd go for Joao Mario and Andre Gomes or Leon Goretzka.
I agree completely, it's just that things get trickier it seems. Has Joao Mario impressed you that much? Haven't seen him play. Can't say I'd be excited about Andre Gomes either from the things I've heard about his season.
I've been impressed with Joao Mario this season when I've seen him, he's strong, quick and technically excellent, plus he works hard and is versatile. I am a bit wary for Andre Gomes as well in truth, merely from a mentality perspective, but he has the talent and physical attributes to be an excellent player IMO if the right manager can get the best out of him.
Sounds good. Agree about Andre Gomes. What would you think of Kondogbia?
Pretty much the same as Gomes, physically and technically he has everything but doesn't seem to apply himself enough and isn't mentally strong.
Alright, cheers.
Well, I think Tolisso and Bazoer are my favoured signings for midfield now.
Joao Mario? The young CM prospects Tielemans and Bazoer are still available, although I wouldn't expect them to be able to be first team regulars for us at this point.
No, I wouldn't expect that either.