I don't think he was average. However you understood my line of thought. 2 quality wingers who are capable of scoring goals and who add quality to the forward line. Also I think Martial should play upfront and not on the flanks
Keeping Midfield Strong
- Thread starter Devil may care
- Start date
I don't think he was average. However you understood my line of thought. 2 quality wingers who are capable of scoring goals and who add quality to the forward line. Also I think Martial should play upfront and not on the flanks
Griezmann will cost close to £60M, I can't see the logic of buying him for that and then not using in him in his best position, in fact if you want to risk Martial as our main #9 it would make sense to have Griezmann playing off him in a 4-2-3-1 to bolster our goal threat, with a new RW and Memphis on the left.
I don't think Memphis deserves a first team place next year. He hasn't produced the goods to demand that. As said It would be great if we can add 2 quality wingers who can score goals similar to Griezmann and Mahrez. I think that would add quality/goals to the team + it would give more space to the striker to act. If we add those wingers + change the manager then I believe that we can go on with our current forward line for at least another year. Rooney, Martial and Rashford have enough goals in them to do well upfront
Lingard as cover as well? If we sign a striker that enables martial to play wide left as well. We definitely need a proven winger though to carry the younger players when they have an off day. Would be happy with either of the suggested names.
I find Lingard extremely limited. A poor man's Valencia
I don't think Rooney has much left to offer at all and benching him is going to take some balls, however I'll not dwell on him. Memphis has been poor this season, no argument there, but if we go and spend another £30-40M on a wide player then we are pretty much closing the door. Which formation are you thinking of playing btw? As Griezmann needs to be in a front 3 to work from wide right.
Since the Bazoer thread has turned into an argument about Nathan Ake I will stick this here.
http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/30/manchester-united-launch-transfer-offer-for-riechedly-bazoer-5784892/
If we plan to go for a young CM he certainly fits the bill.
http://metro.co.uk/2016/03/30/manchester-united-launch-transfer-offer-for-riechedly-bazoer-5784892/
If we plan to go for a young CM he certainly fits the bill.
Unfortunately it's the metro, so it doesn't mean much. He'd be good signing though.
Yeah, they didn't cire sources like they usually do. He'd make a lot more sense than letting Benfica diddle us for Renato Sanches, and we need a player who can sit deep and protect the back while still having the quality to bring the ball out, Schneiderlin is not this player despite what some think, he's a combative box to box player IMO.
That's why I want a winger whose versatile and can play in different roles. If Depay succeeds than he will win back his place and we can move the new winger elsewhere. If he cant win his place back, well, erm, than the squad player role is the maximum he can achieve at a big club like ours.
Honestly I'd rather 'close the door' to him then to Martial or Rashford. They both played much better then him
Well what you describe is what Martial is, a versatile forward that could eventually move central and Memphis left if he finds his feet here.
Martial place is upfront and not on the flank. I find it unfair that we risk ruining such wonderful talent by playing him out of position to give a Big Time Charlie another chance. If Depay can win his place back then fine. If not than his place is either on the bench or out.
As much as I rate Bazoer, we already have a clone in Fosu-Mensah.
Martial is great on the left though and it gives him a better chance to use his dribbling which will likely get lost if he starts playing as the lone #9.
I disagree. I see him more like a Henry. You'll lost most of his effectiveness on the flanks
There seems to be a lot of uncertainty about his future position, he may end up as a CB.
But his best games for us have been from the left for us and so far he's not exactly looked the kind of clinical finisher you can rest your season on, not yet.
I beg to differ once again. I think his best games came as a forward line. He would score more if we weren't using such crappy system.
I don't think there is anything to really back that up, he's not been prolific at any age level, but ok. It still comes back to the fact we can't go into the season with him expected to score 25 goals and not have a top performer who can guarantee 20 or so themselves to supplement him.
For instance:
--------------Martial
Memphis--Griezmann---New RW
There isn't a LWF to add the goals needed.
Conversely:
Memphis---Martial---Griezmann
With a proper 3 man midfield behind them, maybe buy Demebele who can operate in multiple forward positions because he's so two footed.
He's 19 FFS. At his age the likes of Henry, RVN and Vieri were barely playing any football at all. Do you know how many goals Vieri scored at age 19? 2 goals in 18 matches with Pisa. Inzaghi had similar stats to Martial when he was 1 year older and playing in the Serie B. The guy has a good eye for goal and he's got great technique and dribbling. Id say play him regularly upfront in a system that actually work and in 1-2 season time he will be scoring goals for fun
No need to get wound up dev, tell me, at 19 were those players you mentioned expected to carry an elite club as their lone #9 and central source of goals? I don't think so, Henry was actually playing wide while he developed, as you point out Martial is 20 and thus has time to get there, but you seem to want to put the cart before the horse.
Juventus insistence on playing Henry on the flank nearly killed off his career. Henry was lucky that Arsenal stepped up and signed him only to convert him into a striker. Martial share alot of characteristics with the guy. Like Thierry he's fast and is a great dribbler, however its evident that he's not a winger. If we want Martial (and Rashford whose very similar to Martial) to develop then we have to play them upfront and back them with as much quality in midfield as possible.
Henry was playing on the wing before that though, it wasn't a foreign position to him. At any rate I guess you are saying you'd be happy to risk missing top 4 again by putting the team on a 20 year old as the main #9, as unless we could get a Griezmann or Reus to supplement the goals I think it's an incredible amount to place on a young player who's never led the line regularly.
and it was crippling his career.
So you really think this team would miss the top 4? Don't forget that it would be a fluid system were the strikers and the wingers constantly switch roles and by doing so they create space for one another. Also Martial would be backed by Rooney and Rashford. Honestly Id rather see us use this system than having Big Time Charlie on the flank who cant defend even if his own life rely on it
---------------DDG----------------
Darmian----Smalling----Laporte------Shaw
---------------Schneiderlin-------------------
-----Bastian/Gundogan------Herrera--------------
Mahrez--------------------------------Dembele
-------------------Martial-----------------------
So playing on the wing cripples a career? I think it builds on a young players skillset personally.
Would I be happy to see that side? Kinda as it would be entertaining at least, but I wouldn't be convinced of it getting top 4, especially if Schweinsteiger was a regular as we wont be getting Gundogan, and I also can't see Schneiderlin in that role, he's a combative box to box, not a #6 who shields the back 4 and brings the ball out.
Up top you've got a wide player with one good season, a 20 year old who's never had a 20 goal season with a 18 year old and a has-been as his back-ups, and another 18 year old with half a season to his name on the left, mainly because you clearly dislike Memphis. Take Herrera out, put Gundogan in a double pivot with Schneiderlin and put Griezmann behind Martial and then we'd be in business.
A- Its a different role that's all. I don't think it benefits strikers to play there.
b- If I hated Depay I would want him out. I want him to stay however he shouldn't be considered as a first teamer. He has shown nothing to deserve that
c- I don't think that the team I've posted is perfect, however its a realistic team which balances between being competitive and what a club can spend in one summer transfer market. We need a top quality defender to partner Smalling, Gundogan would probably be on cheap as he's at the end of his contract and hopefully Leicester/Rennes won't ask ridiculous amount of money for their stars.
They will. Why shouldn't they? You'd do the same thing in their position. There are probably numerous clubs interested in both players.
Ridiculous money ie beyond 50-60m mark. Im not expecting Leicester to sell Mahrez for 12m
I disagree but fair enough.
I didn't say you hate him but you refer to him as big time Charlie like he's some up himself dick head, when in truth he looks like a sligfhtly limited, confidence drained young player, now how we can try and work that out of him by effectively buying another expensive player that will keep him out of the side, I don't know.
Why would Leicester and Rennes accept less than £35M for their star players? Everyone knows United have lots of money so we wont be getting any favourable prices. I just don't see enough proven firepower in that line-up and the midfield only works if we pull the Gundogan signing off.
I think he is a big time Charlie. He barely works hard for the team and he need to tone down on his attitude. He gives the impression of being a Ronaldo when talent wise he had delivered the class of a Young. Hence why Im treating him as squad player
Regarding Mahrez-Dembele I think 40-50m would be fair
Wouldn't be surprised if it takes 40m or more to get Mahrez for example.
I think 45-50m would be fair
I think he has some youthful cockiness but he actually comes off a bit insecure to me. I agree he needs to work harder but we can develop that in him. If he becomes a back-up I don't see him progressing, young players need to play.
So possiblt close to a £100M on 2 wide players?
we're talking about 2 wingers who can score tons of goals. Id spend 100m on one 24 year old Cristiano Ronaldo and you?
Players can claw back to first teamers if they put their heart to it. At one point Fletch was 5th choice behind Hargreaves, Carrick, Scholes and young Ando and yet he still managed to shape quite a good career for himself
we're talking about 2 wingers who can score tons of goals. Id spend 100m on one 24 year old Cristiano Ronaldo and you?
Players can claw back to first teamers if they put their heart to it. At one point Fletch was 5th choice behind Hargreaves, Carrick, Scholes and young Ando and yet he still managed to shape quite a good career for himself
Yes if they were anywhere near Ronaldo's level I would.
I like both players and I don't even hate the idea, but I do think we'd struggle to get top 4 with it, lots of variables so little proven goal threat.Sure but Fletcher was helped by the fact Hargo was a crock and Ando was Ando, I think Memphis would struggle to dislodge the two guys you're suggesting here.
Since this is a thread about the midfield, I really think if we went with your idea we'd need to bolster the midfield more.
Yes if they were anywhere near Ronaldo's level I would.
Sure but Fletcher was helped by the fact Hargo was a crock and Ando was Ando, I think Memphis would struggle to dislodge the two guys you're suggesting here.
Since this is a thread about the midfield, I really think if we went with your idea we'd need to bolster the midfield more.
Lets clear some things up. If a player is good enough then he will get his place back. Especially in today's football were the intensity is ridiculously high, there's alot of games to showcase a player's talent and lets face it there aren't many great players around anymore. An 18 year old Giggs was able to kick an English international out of our flanks, SAF allowed another English international to leave because of some red headed midget who wasn't even a midfielder at that time and Fletcher was able to win his place back despite having so many internationals ahead of him. Football is a simple game. All you have to do is be better than the player ahead of you and you win your place back. If the club can find better options than you are then you either sit on the bench or you leave. We are not Depay United. We are Manchester United and while we hope he will bounce back and show he's Manchester United level we owe big time Charlie or anybody else nothing. That's how big clubs work and its time we start acting like one or else we risk becoming the new Liverpool. FFS we're talking about the likes of Dembele and not Messi here. If Depay cant compete against him for a first team place then seriously he shouldn't be at United.
I don't think that the squad I mentioned is the best team in the world. However its the best team we can probably build considering the time and financial restrictions and the realistic targets available to us. Don't take me wrong, we would probably not be able to get those players but at least those players will probably move teams this summer and hence they are gettable. Its pointless aiming at the likes of Neymar, Ronaldo and Bale because we will never get these sort of players. We should aim at
a- rising stars who had outgrown their team (Dembele, Mahrez etc)
b- quality players who had moved at a big club but whom for some reason hasn't settled down (Kroos, James etc)
c- good quality players at the end of their contract (Gundogan etc)
Those are the most realistic targets we can get
Also we should have priorities. What's more important strengthening the flanks who seriously lack some good quality talent in it (Martial is out of position on the left flank and Big time charlie makes Nani look like Ronaldo on steroids) or upfront were we have a declining but still effective Rooney and two of the most exciting young strikers in football?
To conclude football is a team game. Take Vardy as an example. Just 1 season ago he was the laughing stock of redcafe. This year he's a goal machine. What changed? Had he learnt how to play football? Same with Andy Cole who was a decent but hardly world class striker(He was what? SAF's fourth option behind Shearer, Collymore and Batistuta?) but who served us well throughout the years. Why do/did they scored so many goals? The reasons were two
a- loads of creativity
b- they had plenty of players around them who could score goals.
b is quite significant. If lets say the striker is our only outlet of goals then rest assured that he will be tightly marked. But what would happen if we have 2,3,4 other outlets? Can they mark them all? I much doubt it. That is what allowed good but not really world class strikers like Teddy, Cole and Ole to score so many goals and win so many trophies. If Cole is heavily marked, Giggs, Beckham, Scholes and Yorke would rip them to pieces. That is what this current side lack. I mean seriously who can score goals apart from the striker? Young (0 goals), Depay (7 goals - 4 of which were with championship level clubs), Januzaj (1 goal), Lingard (5 goals)?
Id say let introduce an ancient custom ie let play players in their natural role and bring the players we need instead. If Depay cant produce the goals and the creativity that we need then we bring in a winger that does. If we lack a quality CB then we stop playing midfielders there and actually buy a top quality defender to do it. Lets help our forward line which, to be fair, had scored their fair share of goals (Rooney 14 goals in 32 appearances, Martial 12 goals in 39 appearances (he play mostly on the flanks) and Rashford (5 goals in 8 appearances)
Depay can not start next season as a starter when he has shown absolutely nothing this season to warrant that. His only good performances come against very poor European sides like Brugge and Midgyland. He should be back up and be made to work himself into a starting role instead of given a first team place in the hopes he will just improve. Would be a big risk for a player who's only performed in the dutch league
You have decided that Martial has to be a #9 and pretty much want to structure everything around the idea that we must buy wide players to make sure he doesn't play left. The thing is there's a huge difference playing LW to playing on the left of a front 3 like Neymar and Reus do, I bet they barely average a cross a game starting wide and score lots of goals.
I don't see why we couldn't play a proper front 3 with Martial--#9--RW and it be just as effective with a 3 man midfield behind them like Barca and Dortmund play. My point is you've decided there's only one way to make this work, but I don't think so.
As far as Memphis goes, you are right that Dembele is not Messi, but when you buy a player for £35-40M it usually means he is afforded every chance to start regularly, my question mark over it is whether the club will want to plow another huge sum into a position we just spent on last season, especially when we need a RW and a couple of CM's as well. Make no mistake, I don't care if Memphis becomes the bench back-up which he has been for a large part of this season anyway as Martial has played there, but I think if the choice is made to go with Martial as a #9, then Memphis will compete with Lingard and maybe Januzaj for the LW spot next season, unless we are binning them as well..
He doesn't have to start but dev is talking about adding even more people in front of him when we already have Martial and Lingard there if we buy a RW this summer as most expect.
If Depay can't overtake Lingard (who I think is average) then he's not going to be good enough anyway. I'm hoping we buy Ibra and Dembele but I have to say the back up options are pretty awful so I would be happy if we signed 2 wingers. I would be glad to see all of them leave (the second line) to be honest but I guess that kind of overhaul will need to be delayed for another year because of the rest of our problems.
Martial------------Ibrahimovic-----Dembele
Lingard/Depay------Rooney-----Young/Valencia
Depay is only 22 but he is so awful at beating players and considering he is a winger, I don't have much hope of him reaching the level we expected when he signed for £27m