I haven't called anyone shit, I questioned the added value of a manager if the only circumstance where the team looks decent is when every other aspects are ideal? And based on your point what does he bring that McKenna, Southgate or yourself wouldn't bring with a theoritical ideal first XI?
Keep Him
- Thread starter DontBeMeanToBeRuud
- Start date
- Status
I haven't called anyone shit, I questioned the added value of a manager if the only circumstance where the team looks decent is when every other aspects are ideal? And based on your point what does he bring that McKenna, Southgate or yourself wouldn't bring with a theoritical ideal first XI?
I’d have voted to keep him regardless of today‘s result. Give him time and a better squad. If things don’t improve by Christmas, then see about a change.
This has all been covered plenty in plenty of threads. By me and many others.
Nope. Too many were playing for their own future. One swallow is not a summer etc.
1% out of 99 is not a good stat
1% out of 99 is not a good stat
By that logic good managers don't need good players. Any team, regardless of the manager can be improved with better players.
Same.
Or even a real stat.
That's the spirit waste another season and then have no decent manager options to turn too
Just in time for the end of Southgate's contract with England.
He was close to exceptional last year taking over a pretty dreadful situation, and hes dealt with a very competitive league and a lot of injuries this year. IMHO I don't see a reason to cut bait with his current CV....especially given the replacement candidates which feel massively underwhelming. Today I felt like he picked a team that would best implement his strategy and it worked brilliantly. This needs to be priority #1.
No but it’s not far off. Also Ten Hag ins are going overboard
Evans has to stay. Great season and big performances when it really mattered.
Not changing my vote. Still has to go.
Now is not the time to decide this stuff. We finished on a high, which makes it easier to take our time and be cool headed about it. I can see Ineos keeping him, but not based solely off the warm fuzzy of a cup win.
The weird thing is, if this is all about instant results, league table finishes then yeah, sack him. IF you want to build foundations then what makes McKenna any better than a man who has been shown to get rid of bad/underperforimg players and big superstars and has ushered the likes of Garnacho and Mainoo into the first team and has improved Dalot no end?
If INEOS want a ruthless 'quick results' model with someone like Tuchel then i guess it makes sense. I don't see how McKenna is any better than EtH if we're planning for a few seasons of a rebuild though.
If INEOS want a ruthless 'quick results' model with someone like Tuchel then i guess it makes sense. I don't see how McKenna is any better than EtH if we're planning for a few seasons of a rebuild though.
Which decent manager option is out there now that we'd be missing out on?That's the spirit waste another season and then have no decent manager options to turn too
Weird McKenna opinions aside ten hag has had two seasons of no real style of play and no real suggestion he can bridge the gap between us and the title.
If they do sack ten Hag he's the one I'd want. Not enthused at all by Tuchel, Pochettino's star has fallen a long way since 2016-18 and Frank is a cnut who I can't stand. Don't underestimate what McKenna has done at Ipswich, he has the makings of a great manager. It is a risk as he's untested at this level but he's the one I'd go for.
To people saying: it's only one match. This match demonstrated how important a fully functional defense is. Our defense was literally wrecked this season. Shaw, Martinez, Varane, Malacia - all were injured for lengthy periods.
And even didn't mention midfield.
And even didn't mention midfield.
No. This was a very impressive win for sure, but between his awful transfer record and the results in the league i just dont see why he should keep his job
If he was making excellent moves in and out of the squad i would be all in for keeping him, but the most important part of rebuilding is being able to identify and purchase the right players and he has failed in that regard
If he was making excellent moves in and out of the squad i would be all in for keeping him, but the most important part of rebuilding is being able to identify and purchase the right players and he has failed in that regard
No good manager elevate average players, performances don't crater for an entire season without providing any mitigating factor. Let's say it this way, if the only things that affects performances is the identity and form of the players then what is the added value of the staff?
How can you say that when bad performances occur it's entirely the players fault or their availability but when results are good it's a shared success.
Dont worry, Bruno will stay
Enough is enough, thanks for the cup. Good luck for your future
Even moreso it demonstrated how important a fully functional system is. Whoever is on the pitch.
Why do we need to give him a new contract if we keep him?
If we keep him and he does well he'll get a new one, if he doesn't then it costs little or nothing to can him
Still has to go. A cup win is great but the league is where you see how good a team really is. The fact is we are lucky to have finished 8th. Time for change
Because after a couple of losses the pressure cooker to sack him would immediately be at fever pitch.
Players never respond well to a manager on ice that thin.
Wanted to keep him even before today's match so that result really doesnt change anything for me. I said this in the transfers thread but I'd like to see how he performs when he hasn't been marred by various issues and injuries. If he still sucks then I have zero issues sacking him.
I think people underestimate how much injuries can affect a team. Even missing 2-3 key players can have a huge impact. City lost 3 games in the league this season and Rodri missed all 3. Tonight, we broke their record of something like 74 matches unbeaten with him in the team. At the top level, it is hard for anyone to get any kind of consistency going in the team when they are having to change plans literally every week.
Someone like Saliba getting injured affected Arsenal last season where they dropped points in those 3 consecutive games at the end of that season. Liverpool would struggle too if they miss van Dijk/Salah for the majority of the season.
Having good players fit and firing is really a necessity. Even today City could bring on Akanji for Ake while we had to bring on Evans for Martinez. Nothing against Evans but that's a huge drop off in quality whichever way you look at it.
If the decision is already made then I wish him all the best and hope whoever we hire to replace can perform well. 2 trophies in 2 years is a good job considering the bottling we did previously and is far from being the worst manager post Fergie like how some people want to believe.
I think people underestimate how much injuries can affect a team. Even missing 2-3 key players can have a huge impact. City lost 3 games in the league this season and Rodri missed all 3. Tonight, we broke their record of something like 74 matches unbeaten with him in the team. At the top level, it is hard for anyone to get any kind of consistency going in the team when they are having to change plans literally every week.
Someone like Saliba getting injured affected Arsenal last season where they dropped points in those 3 consecutive games at the end of that season. Liverpool would struggle too if they miss van Dijk/Salah for the majority of the season.
Having good players fit and firing is really a necessity. Even today City could bring on Akanji for Ake while we had to bring on Evans for Martinez. Nothing against Evans but that's a huge drop off in quality whichever way you look at it.
If the decision is already made then I wish him all the best and hope whoever we hire to replace can perform well. 2 trophies in 2 years is a good job considering the bottling we did previously and is far from being the worst manager post Fergie like how some people want to believe.
I'm still on the fence. One game shouldn't change things, but at the same time there's something to be said for a manager that can win silverware. What is a fact is that we've reached 3 cup finals with him in 2 seasons, and have won 2 of them. Only Jose boasts a better record, and granted hindsight hasn't proved his sacking a mistake so things aren't always black and white.
The win today doesn't change our awful league performances this season, but it sure goes a long way to soften the blow, because you don't get many days as a fan to celebrate trophies, and we shouldn't take for granted a manager that can manage to win trophies even when we are struggling as a club.
I feel like sacking him could be a mistake with no stand-out candidates. I mean there are choices, but are there any clear-cut candidates out there who you believe can make us a top three side capable of challenging, while also managing to win some silverware within the next couple seasons?
My head tells me sacking him is the 'logical' choice. Something in my gut tells me that he can do it if given the time to get top players in key positions. Today hasn't changed either view.
The win today doesn't change our awful league performances this season, but it sure goes a long way to soften the blow, because you don't get many days as a fan to celebrate trophies, and we shouldn't take for granted a manager that can manage to win trophies even when we are struggling as a club.
I feel like sacking him could be a mistake with no stand-out candidates. I mean there are choices, but are there any clear-cut candidates out there who you believe can make us a top three side capable of challenging, while also managing to win some silverware within the next couple seasons?
My head tells me sacking him is the 'logical' choice. Something in my gut tells me that he can do it if given the time to get top players in key positions. Today hasn't changed either view.
Losing 7-0 to Liverpool, dead last in the CL group, 8th etc. Terrible football mostly, can't break down teams that park the bus. Concede 20+ shots on target against every team. So forth.. People will say injuries but even then we had a good enough squad to not get thumped against shit teams.
Last edited:
The players were always playing for him. This idea that some throw out that he was being let down by the players or was being thrown under the bus by them was always daft.
Obviously the injuries played their part, but the single biggest reason for the failure of this season was ETH's tactics and decision to play a one man midfield with a deep defence and high attack. It didn't matter who we had fit and playing, we saw the same issues virtually every single game this season, even against weak opposition who had their own serious injury problems.
ETH refused to change all season and we kept seeing the same problems, then finally when we got to the last four games of the season he made the change to a more compact system and we instantly looked much better. We lost a close one against Arsenal (by a goal caused by a player out of position due to the injuries), beat Newcastle, Brighton and City. Didn't necessarily play well in all those games, but we were much more solid which meant we gave ourselves a better chance of getting something out of the games. Those four games actually proved the point about it being the tactics, as in the first three of them we actually had more injuries than we did in the vast majority of the earlier games, yet still managed to look more solid.
If he'd made that change earlier in the season (even halfway through), things would have been very different. Although there would always have been the question about why he thought it could work in the first place, but at least he would have shown his adaptability to change what isn't working. Instead, he stubbornly stuck with what clearly wasn't working for 48 games (more if we include the preseason), before finally making the obvious change for the last 4.
Obviously the injuries played their part, but the single biggest reason for the failure of this season was ETH's tactics and decision to play a one man midfield with a deep defence and high attack. It didn't matter who we had fit and playing, we saw the same issues virtually every single game this season, even against weak opposition who had their own serious injury problems.
ETH refused to change all season and we kept seeing the same problems, then finally when we got to the last four games of the season he made the change to a more compact system and we instantly looked much better. We lost a close one against Arsenal (by a goal caused by a player out of position due to the injuries), beat Newcastle, Brighton and City. Didn't necessarily play well in all those games, but we were much more solid which meant we gave ourselves a better chance of getting something out of the games. Those four games actually proved the point about it being the tactics, as in the first three of them we actually had more injuries than we did in the vast majority of the earlier games, yet still managed to look more solid.
If he'd made that change earlier in the season (even halfway through), things would have been very different. Although there would always have been the question about why he thought it could work in the first place, but at least he would have shown his adaptability to change what isn't working. Instead, he stubbornly stuck with what clearly wasn't working for 48 games (more if we include the preseason), before finally making the obvious change for the last 4.
It’s not that the team needs to look “decent”. The team has been an absolute state. So bad in so many positions, and not just playing back ups, the back ups haven’t been fit. I think he’s been too stubborn but he clearly decided how he wants to play and won’t change, like he did in the first year.
It’s almost impossible to quantify what a new manager could do, but do I think Southgate and McKenna get us challenging city? Nope. McKenna gets eaten up by that dressing room, he couldn’t survive as a big part of the coaching team with a club legend above him, players leaking stuff against his coaching methods. Southgate is tactically as limited as they come. Never a United manager in a million years.
Can ten hag challenge city with the right players and team behind him, possibly. I’d let him build on what we achieved last year and write this one off.
Hell no. Anybody changing their mind based on todays win is reactionary and emotional. We finished 8th, bottom of the CL group, and are lucky to have even been in the final. Injuries are a cheap excuse for our performance levels this season.
I’m really glad his time here ended on a high with two young academy players he nurtured winning us the FA cup against 115. But he still definitely needs to go.
This.
Happy for the cup(s), but he needs to go.
This this this. Dont let this win paper over the huge cracks. He isn't the man for the job
Not the 'no style of play' stuff again. You can say, like i have, that it's been a crap plan all season and he deserves to go and I have no problem with that, but he clearly has a game plan, it just hasn't worked (...due to it being a terrible plan or not having the players is another argument). I can't be bothered to go through this again!
And the McKenna opinion is based on the idea that we probably will go through a big rebuild and there will be calls for time and patience, which will be understandable. My point is, EtH has actually done some good stuff with his own rebuild in some respects with the likes of Dalot, Mainoo, and Garnacho in particular. If we're all going to be calling for patience with McKenna it seems a bit weird to just ignore the good aspects of EtH's own rebuild (young players emerging and two trophies in two seasons) and the fact that we haven't pleaded much patience in his case.
If the decision is based on, 'we want a manager that gets us top 4 and nothing else will do' then fair enough I suppose.
- Status