[Fortitude]

Let’s hope he just needs a few goals to give him some confidence.

No need to panic or loan him out just yet. Man City give their players a full season to settle, United online fans give players 45 mins.

It’s gotten to the stage of absurdity now.

 

[Rozay]

Better than Hojlund for me. Far better footballer, and I am not yet drawing this premature conclusion of him being a terrible finisher either. He has been a bit unfortunate with some chances, and there is a difference between a terrible finish and a good save. Agains Southampton, he had wrong-footed the goalkeeper, but his shot was blocked on the line by a defender. He’s drawn many a good save from keepers too, and there’s enough to suggest he can at least get a Firmino level of goals I believe. There’s just a bit of a bandwagon thing going on now, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see a sudden upturn in fortunes in front of goal, far less than it would surprise me to see Hojlund suddenly become a far better footballer.

 

[Rossa]

Better than Hojlund for me. Far better footballer, and I am not yet drawing this premature conclusion of him being a terrible finisher either. He has been a bit unfortunate with some chances, and there is a difference between a terrible finish and a good save. Agains Southampton, he had wrong-footed the goalkeeper, but his shot was blocked on the line by a defender. He’s drawn many a good save from keepers too, and there’s enough to suggest he can at least get a Firmino level of goals I believe. There’s just a bit of a bandwagon thing going on now, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see a sudden upturn in fortunes in front of goal, far less than it would surprise me to see Hojlund suddenly become a far better footballer.

He may or may not be a better footballer. The obvious issue is that everything is done in slow motion, so if Højlund commited to do everything at the same pace, he would also exhibit better ball control.

Also, did you miss his run in on an open goal with almost a ten yard head start on the defender, only to be caught after 13 yards? You can be as competent as you want technically, but when you are that slow, that lacking in intensity, awareness and body strength, how can you compete? He reminds me a little of Donny in how he tries to do things, but he just lacks the athleticism to pull it off in the PL.

 

[Rozay]

He may or may not be a better footballer. The obvious issue is that everything is done in slow motion, so if Højlund commited to do everything at the same pace, he would also exhibit better ball control.

Also, did you miss his run in on an open goal with almost a ten yard head start on the defender, only to be caught after 13 yards? You can be as competent as you want technically, but when you are that slow, that lacking in intensity, awareness and body strength, how can you compete? He reminds me a little of Donny in how he tries to do things, but he just lacks the athleticism to pull it off in the PL.

I can give you a long list of brilliant strikers who would be caught by Wesley Fofana in a 30 yard race. In the same game, Hojlund managed to get fouled for a penalty from a situation where any technically competent striker should have been getting a shot off. He had already manoeuvred himself out of danger by the time Sanchez stupidly fouled him.

Speed isn’t everything in football, and Zirkzee does plenty quickly, just not sprint. Perhaps he’s better served being the one who releases a teammate through on goal from that sort of distance. Something he has done on occasions already this season, like when Garnacho drew a good save against Palace.

 

[Grand Vizier]

He may or may not be a better footballer. The obvious issue is that everything is done in slow motion, so if Højlund commited to do everything at the same pace, he would also exhibit better ball control.

Also, did you miss his run in on an open goal with almost a ten yard head start on the defender, only to be caught after 13 yards? You can be as competent as you want technically, but when you are that slow, that lacking in intensity, awareness and body strength, how can you compete? He reminds me a little of Donny in how he tries to do things, but he just lacks the athleticism to pull it off in the PL.

This is my main concern regarding Zirkzee. I think he could be excellent in a slower paced league, but I don't think he will ever be a top player in Premier League. He certainly has the technique for it, and his passing technique and weight is just lovely to see, but intensity is crucial in this league, and everything else won't matter if you don't have it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This is my main concern regarding Zirkzee. I think he could be excellent in a slower paced league, but I don't think he will ever be a top player in Premier League. He certainly has the technique for it, and his passing technique and weight is just lovely to see, but intensity is crucial in this league, and everything else won't matter if you don't have it.

Tell that to Dimitar Berbatov.

 

[Grand Vizier]

Tell that to Dimitar Berbatov.

Fair point, but I think he is an anomaly. Don't think there are too many other examples that have been top players.

 

[Revival2024]

Tell that to Dimitar Berbatov.

He is no where near the technical ability or finishing ability of Berbatov

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He is no where near the technical ability or finishing ability of Berbatov

Well, no, but he's only 23. Still a lot of development to do. Berbatov hadn't even kicked a ball in the PL when he was that age.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that he's as good as Berbatov. Just that there's more than one way to play the game. Havertz at Arsenal is a much more recent example of a footballer that plays at his own pace and he's doing ok.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Well, no, but he's only 23. Still a lot of development to do. Berbatov hadn't even kicked a ball in the PL when he was that age.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that he's as good as Berbatov. Just that there's more than one way to play the game. Havertz at Arsenal is a much more recent example of a footballer that plays at his own pace and he's doing ok.

Gakpo is another example of a slower player with a similar profile and skill set. He's also not doing badly.

Chris Wood is probably the slowest CF in the league and he's having a great season with Forest. He was October's PL player of the month. Only Haaland has outscored him in the league since last December. Pace wise he's similar to the likes of Dzeko and Sheringham. Liam Delap is another young player doing well with well below average speed (he plays with a lot of aggression though, like Duncan Ferguson)

It's insane to write off Zirkzee so early. He's had a slow start in a new league while mostly playing under a misfit of a manager on his way out.

Against Leicester he showed us why the club was interested in him. His ability to draw opponents out of position while finding his teammates in threatening areas with incisive short and long passes was good to see. His confidence is growing. I feel he has more in his locker to display and I hope Amorim can unlock these abilities regularly like Thiago Motta did at Bologna.

 

[Grand Vizier]

Gakpo is another example of a slower player with a similar profile and skill set. He's also not doing badly.

Chris Wood is probably the slowest CF in the league and he's having a great season with Forest. He was October's PL player of the month. Only Haaland has outscored him in the league since last December. Pace wise he's similar to the likes of Dzeko and Sheringham. Liam Delap is another young player doing well with well below average speed (he plays with a lot of aggression though, like Duncan Ferguson)

It's insane to write off Zirkzee so early. He's had a slow start in a new league while mostly playing under a misfit of a manager on his way out.

Against Leicester he showed us why the club was interested in him. His ability to draw opponents out of position while finding his teammates in threatening areas with incisive short and long passes was good to see. His confidence is growing. I feel he has more in his locker to display and I hope Amorim can unlock these abilities regularly like Thiago Motta did at Bologna.

Pace isn't the subject here, though. A lot of slow players have been successful in the league, but not many have been while playing the game at such little intensity. Personally, I'm not writing him off. I think he has obvious qualities and can be a good player for us, but he really needs to adjust to the pace of the game in this league and make decisions quicker. Hopefully he adapts, as I can see him playing a role behind the striker as one of the two #10s with his skill set.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Pace isn't the subject here, though. A lot of slow players have been successful in the league, but not many have been while playing the game at such little intensity. Personally, I'm not writing him off. I think he has obvious qualities and can be a good player for us, but he really needs to adjust to the pace of the game in this league and make decisions quicker. Hopefully he adapts, as I can see him playing a role behind the striker as one of the two #10s with his skill set.

I don't wholly disagree, but his most recent performance is evidence that he's growing into his role. He showed a little more intensity, but more importantly he stood up to his opponents and more than matched them physically (he's struggled to impose himself in prior matches). In other words, he comfortably looked like a footballer who belongs in this league.

He doesn't have to be super intense or have great pace to make his mark on a game if the opponents can't get close to him

 

[Andycoleno9]

Based on one play (against pacey defender) he is labelled as slow? Look at him in Bologna; you can see that he is not slow striker. He has decent pace but yeah, i agree that pace is not his strength. But, how many players are there with amazing pace? Hojlund is labelled as fast striker but he was also caught by defender in our last game.
Also, in reality, how many situations are during the game where striker's pace makes a difference?

Finishing, heading, ball control, technique, positioning in penalty box, creativity, composure.....are all way important that raw pace.

 

[Red in STL]

Fair point, but I think he is an anomaly. Don't think there are too many other examples that have been top players.

Teddy Sheringham is one

 

[SirScholes]

Based on one play (against pacey defender) he is labelled as slow? Look at him in Bologna; you can see that he is not slow striker. He has decent pace but yeah, i agree that pace is not his strength. But, how many players are there with amazing pace? Hojlund is labelled as fast striker but he was also caught by defender in our last game.
Also, in reality, how many situations are during the game where striker's pace makes a difference?

Finishing, heading, ball control, technique, positioning in penalty box, creativity, composure.....are all way important that raw pace.

He’s not got much of those either

 

[Poborsky's hair]

He may or may not be a better footballer. The obvious issue is that everything is done in slow motion, so if Højlund commited to do everything at the same pace, he would also exhibit better ball control.

Also, did you miss his run in on an open goal with almost a ten yard head start on the defender, only to be caught after 13 yards? You can be as competent as you want technically, but when you are that slow, that lacking in intensity, awareness and body strength, how can you compete? He reminds me a little of Donny in how he tries to do things, but he just lacks the athleticism to pull it off in the PL.

Thats nonsense. He controls the ball much faster then Hojlund and his speed of thought to spread the ball further up with enough pace on the pass is also visible. It is true that his playstyle is different and that he's dropping deep to receive balls, but he's still finding good positions to make us link much better. De Light was almost raving baout him in his last cameo. givign him credit that he let us breath with his hold up play.

When I compare Hojlund of last couple of games I see donkey who has very few touches per game and miscontrols a lot with almost no hold up play. NOTHING suggest that his "faster" play or whatever you see him doing faster is making us play better so far.

I also in the camp, we have not seen much to judge his finishing. Few chances created under ETH. He will start putting them away soon. And it's not like Hojlund is finishing things off, he seems to stumble on the ball more often and time his runs in the box not exactly precisely either.

WHy not to give chance to both players. One is here few games, the other much longer. New manager fresh start for both though.

 

[Bobski]

For all his low intensity he gets more shots off per 90 than Hojlund, 2.4 this season compared to 1.05 for Ras and is far more involved in general play, 26 passes per 90 to 16 for Hojlund.

Zirkzee is sluggish and low energy but knows how to get on the ball and is technically sound when playing at his own pace, Hojlund has good physical and finishing gifts but struggles massively to be involved in matches.

 

[Lentwood]

Same thing happens at club who are good right now. New signings at City, Arsenal and Liverpool often take a season or two before they start to look the business. Robertson barely even started any games for his first full season under Klopp. Fabinho took ages to settle too. Havertz was a laughing stock at Arsenal for a similar length of time. etc etc

Yeah so many examples...Stones at City was in and out for two or three seasons before he became an integral player.

I can understand why fans are impatient but Zirkzee is exactly the profile of player we should be signing.

He's young, he's a different profile of forward, he has technical ability, he was in-demand and he was well-priced. Combine those factors and you can more easily take risks - because he has resale value if it doesn't work out.

Far better this than the expensive quick fixes we end up lumbered with on massive salaries

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah so many examples...Stones at City was in and out for two or three seasons before he became an integral player.

I can understand why fans are impatient but Zirkzee is exactly the profile of player we should be signing.

He's young, he's a different profile of forward, he has technical ability, he was in-demand and he was well-priced. Combine those factors and you can more easily take risks - because he has resale value if it doesn't work out.

Far better this than the expensive quick fixes we end up lumbered with on massive salaries

Ah yeah. Stones. Forgot about him. Great example.

 

[poleglass red]

The only concern you'd have for this lad is the new manager's emphasis on energy and intensity. As per Romano, these were attributes he emphasized in his opening talks with the club. Right now we've him and Rashford in our attacking third, who even on their best day don't suit that style of play. Can they adapt? It might not immediately be that style of play implemented, as we simply don't have the personnel right now, but any new signings come Jan and the off season, he'd be looking to add players that fit his style.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I see Zirkzee was in the original squad called up for these matches, but isn't in the matchday squad for the first game - not even amongst the large number of subs.

Has he got ill / injured, or did they have to omit some of the players for the matchday squad?

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Well, no, but he's only 23. Still a lot of development to do. Berbatov hadn't even kicked a ball in the PL when he was that age.

Anyway, I'm not arguing that he's as good as Berbatov. Just that there's more than one way to play the game. Havertz at Arsenal is a much more recent example of a footballer that plays at his own pace and he's doing ok.

Main difference is that Berba still had a killer instinct in front of net even while playing as languid/borderline lazy as he did. Zirkzee almost seems reluctant to put shots on target unless he doesn't have another choice. I do think Zirkzee is fantastic technically and a freakish passer for his position (seriously watch how this guy strikes passes and the weight of them), but he has to be more aggressive in and around the box otherwise we might as well stick him at CM

 

[julianfr]

Tell that to Dimitar Berbatov.

I was thinking the exact same thing

 

[Marwood]

Tell that to Dimitar Berbatov.

Ultimately though that low energy style did cost him his United career. Never 100% trusted and then moved on.

 

[Malons]

Maybe this'll be the hill I die on, but I'm still confident he's going to do well here. I like his movement off the ball and the way he creates space from himself.

 

[AjaxNL]

I see Zirkzee was in the original squad called up for these matches, but isn't in the matchday squad for the first game - not even amongst the large number of subs.

Has he got ill / injured, or did they have to omit some of the players for the matchday squad?

Not ill/injured, just omitted from the match day squad. Last season his stock was rising fast, having his breakthrough season in Serie A, and debuting for the Dutch national squad on the Euro's. But this season his stock is dropping quickly, given his Utd performances and the fact Koeman doesnt really seem to fancy him

 

[andersj]

Not ill/injured, just omitted from the match day squad. Last season his stock was rising fast, having his breakthrough season in Serie A, and debuting for the Dutch national squad on the Euro's. But this season his stock is dropping quickly, given his Utd performances and the fact Koeman doesnt really seem to fancy him

Not a big deal. Koeman is a bit of an idiot.

 

[Tony247]

Better than Hojlund for me. Far better footballer, and I am not yet drawing this premature conclusion of him being a terrible finisher either. He has been a bit unfortunate with some chances, and there is a difference between a terrible finish and a good save. Agains Southampton, he had wrong-footed the goalkeeper, but his shot was blocked on the line by a defender. He’s drawn many a good save from keepers too, and there’s enough to suggest he can at least get a Firmino level of goals I believe. There’s just a bit of a bandwagon thing going on now, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see a sudden upturn in fortunes in front of goal, far less than it would surprise me to see Hojlund suddenly become a far better footballer.

He is a good footballer. I think he can be a good option to come on 60-70th min when the main striker has done the job. I don't think he is a clutch player for the team who is chasing an equaliser or extra time winner. I doubt he is there yet to win points single handedly. He can be a good partner for the main striker in some matches though.

 

[Rozay]

He is a good footballer. I think he can be a good option to come on 60-70th min when the main striker has done the job. I don't think he is a clutch player for the team who is chasing an equaliser or extra time winner. I doubt he is there yet to win points single handedly. He can be a good partner for the main striker in some matches though.

He won us 3 points against Fulham. The biggest issue so far is that there have been a number of presentable chances that he hasn’t taken. That said, it would be a totally different narrative if a few of them had gone in, yet now people seem to have a long list of issues with his game.

I don’t think his finishing has been particularly poor, he has drawn a fair few good saves. As it is still very early in his time here, I think the sample is too small to conclude he has a finishing problem just yet, and I see him as a player who could easily go on a scoring run. Hojlund’s scoring run last season included some fortuitous goals where, when it goes for you, it goes for you. That could happen for him and he’ll be off.

He’s been better than Hojlund so far for me, and they both have just the one league goal each anyway.

 

[CM]

He won us 3 points against Fulham. The biggest issue so far is that there have been a number of presentable chances that he hasn’t taken. That said, it would be a totally different narrative if a few of them had gone in, yet now people seem to have a long list of issues with his game.

I don’t think his finishing has been particularly poor, he has drawn a fair few good saves. As it is still very early in his time here, I think the sample is too small to conclude he has a finishing problem just yet, and I see him as a player who could easily go on a scoring run. Hojlund’s scoring run last season included some fortuitous goals where, when it goes for you, it goes for you. That could happen for him and he’ll be off.

He’s been better than Hojlund so far for me, and they both have just the one league goal each anyway.

Zirzkee looks a more graceful footballer when he drops deep and links the play but it's the only aspect of his game that's a favourable comparison to Hojlund at the moment.

I'd be a little surprised if Amorim continues to use Zirkzee as a striker in all honesty, he doesn't look comfortable there. I think we might see Zirkzee drop into one of the roles behind the striker when he plays, and possibly have Rashford compete with Hojlund for the number 9 spot.

 

[Ekeke]

Zirzkee looks a more graceful footballer when he drops deep and links the play but it's the only aspect of his game that's a favourable comparison to Hojlund at the moment.

I'd be a little surprised if Amorim continues to use Zirkzee as a striker in all honesty, he doesn't look comfortable there. I think we might see Zirkzee drop into one of the roles behind the striker when he plays, and possibly have Rashford compete with Hojlund for the number 9 spot.

In his first 1 or 2 games, before he did well with his passing, he took some decent touches and held the ball up for teammates as well

In recent games he's done this just as poorly as Hojlund so he needs to get back to doing the basics right first and foremost, they both do.

 

[Golden Nugget]

He won us 3 points against Fulham. The biggest issue so far is that there have been a number of presentable chances that he hasn’t taken. That said, it would be a totally different narrative if a few of them had gone in, yet now people seem to have a long list of issues with his game.

I don’t think his finishing has been particularly poor, he has drawn a fair few good saves. As it is still very early in his time here, I think the sample is too small to conclude he has a finishing problem just yet, and I see him as a player who could easily go on a scoring run. Hojlund’s scoring run last season included some fortuitous goals where, when it goes for you, it goes for you. That could happen for him and he’ll be off.

He’s been better than Hojlund so far for me, and they both have just the one league goal each anyway.

For me, the biggest issue is that he’s come, looked like a good player that is adapting to the league. His misses against Liverpool were poor but at least he got in the right positions. Since then his confidence seems shot, and he’s not near those chances anymore.

I’m not writing him off, but hope he can regain his confidence again quickly

 

[KirkDuyt]

Koeman starting him as a 10 tonight.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

How has he been?

 

[KirkDuyt]

How has he been?

Like someone started a fifa career mode save and made his player really tall and heavy with no speed and agility.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Like someone started a fifa career mode save and made his player really tall and heavy with no speed and agility.

I've watched the 2nd half and he's barely touched the ball. And now he's off for Weghorst, who I think is the better player and that's saying a lot

 

[Escobar]

I thought he was a good signing but I am convinced he will not make it here

 

[Dempsey19]

Doing everything to prove me right that Wout is better.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[V.O.]

In Zirkzee's defence, Brian Brobbey is in the way and he's probably about ten feet wide.