He just seems more suited playing around an actual target man. As long as he doesn't have to make runs into space and he's actually quite good.
11
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 20
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 1
Everything I see of him is that of a 10. Maybe Amorim will finally play him there if he uses his Sporting formation.
Decent cameo today from Zirkzee. He has a really good passing technique and rides challenges really well when hes on it.
Just like others have said, he seems suited to that left half space in Amorims system. It gives me hope at least
He played well when he came on. When he gets the time and space he can look like a player. Problem is he isn't going to get that space often in this league.
Decent today, nice touches, flick ons and good passing range. Jurys still very much out though.
A few nice passes and I actually saw him sprint during one of our attacks! For now, it might be best to only sub him on when we're winning comfortably to help rebuild his confidence.
Can't see it with him. For me he looks out of his depth.
A bit better today.
I thought he was good today, I agree that it still feels like a really weird signing but we will see.
He's meant to be a striker. Touches and flicks can fuxk off.
What if a touch or flick puts another player through on goal? What if the touch or flick is a vital part of a dangerous attack?
First time he's resembled an actual footballer since the Palace game
In the system Amorim plays I could see him filling one of the two positions behind the main striker easily, but I couldn't see him playing the role of Gyokeres unless Amorim wanted to switch up the way he played completely
Yeah, he’s never a 9. But a good age to be a potential long term replacement for Bruno. So definitely worth keeping round. Been bugging me how many people have completely written him off already.
Didn't he state he isn't a striker?
Zirkzee needs a loan, ideally a mid table club that has no real pressure on it, to develop the tools I actually do think he has but we just don’t the time to give him in place of Hojlund, who also needs to develop.
Worrying the way for the third goal he instinctively runs into Garnacho's space on the left, or seems to be doing. A natural striker (which he isn't, by his own admission) would have run towards the centre spot. For that goal, he's kind of nowhere.
Hopefully things will work out, and he does have some balling ability and potential, but he just seems neither one thing nor the other in terms of his position.
Hopefully things will work out, and he does have some balling ability and potential, but he just seems neither one thing nor the other in terms of his position.
He's getting the feck out of the way and hoping to take a defender with him... Did nothing wrong there
Fair point, but his initial movement should have been to make a run towards the centre. He does eventually provide an option but the way he is in Garnacho's space just looks sloppy and he almost messes up the attack. He just doesn't do much off the ball.
I thought he looked decent.
Did a few nice moves and had good distribution and got in the area but he never got a decent pass when he was there.
Did a few nice moves and had good distribution and got in the area but he never got a decent pass when he was there.
Isn't that where Bruno is going to play though ?
Like you, I still have hope for this guy, but I also see why a large section of the fan base is worried.
I didn't watch this guy at Bologna (I don’t know if you did?) but, when it became clear we were going for him, I looked up a lot of his videos (which I know isn't a good way to judge a player!) and everything I saw there was that of a 10, too.
These videos from an Arsenal scouting YouTube channel funnily enough were my favourites because he actually left in his errors to give you a full picture of his game:
They were specifically highlighting his dribbling and hold-up play, and the way he dropped deep, brought his teammates into play and generally carried the ball under pressure seemed very promising. Those attributes seemed (and still do) to be his best, and I think the 10 position is where we could get full use out of them.
We saw glimpses of it last night after he came on. There was a moment he came deep, was under pressure but easily turned his man, played a nice pass out to the right and we were immediately on the attack. Instead of competing with Hojlund, I think they could play together. Especially if Amorim plans on using two 10s.
That's what I'm thinking too. That he could be the 10/inside foward. The only I think he might run into is the intensity.
That's understandable. The youtuber that made the videos above actually made one on his defensive work, too, but it appears to have been deleted. From what I remember, he did press and track back, but seeing how hard someone works out of possession is hard to judge outside of real time games.
There was a point against Leicester where we lost the ball in their half, and Zirkzee busted a gut to get back which stopped them from progressing too far into our half. That was as nice to see as some of his work on the ball.
Speaking of his performance, someone made a video of it:
They didn't include the tracking back part but everything else seems to be there. You can see that if he can potentially replicate his Bologna form here, he could be a real asset when dropping deep and getting us up the pitch. You can also see why playing him with Hojlund could be an alternative because the times he dropped deep to get us up the pitch, we had no one centrally once the wide player got the ball, so if he can do that with Hojlund occupying that space, we could potentially create more chances in general.
Why did we buy another number 10? I get that he might be quite good in that position but i'm kind of mystified why we'd spend money on it, again.
Loan him and hope he improves enough to get our fee back.
I still think he is an Ineos signing.
Ineos saw arguably the best available young false 9 transfer in the world and went for him because someone as a manager can use him as exactly that.
Zirkzee's numbers even at Bologna arent mind blowing - but Ten Hag using him as the highest leader of our press shows how tactically incapable Ten Hag ended up being with a 2 to 4 man high press that included Bruno.
I liked his short cameo vs Leicester and whilst the team was clearly drowned - you got to see what Zirkzee is about - he is a player that is there to make our attacking play more fluid and therefore making at times quite fast with inverted forwards rather than to play in a traditional number 9 as our only tactic.
He needs the freedom to drop from 9 as deep as a CM to get the best use of him and being a player than interlinks our team rather than playing as the final man on the end of our chances.
I thought Ruud was bought in particularly for Zirkzee to improve his finishing more than Hojlunds but with how little Zirkzee played under both Ten Hag once Hojlund returned and how little Ruud himself used him - this looks to me like an Ineos Ugarte type of signing.
Ineos saw arguably the best available young false 9 transfer in the world and went for him because someone as a manager can use him as exactly that.
Zirkzee's numbers even at Bologna arent mind blowing - but Ten Hag using him as the highest leader of our press shows how tactically incapable Ten Hag ended up being with a 2 to 4 man high press that included Bruno.
I liked his short cameo vs Leicester and whilst the team was clearly drowned - you got to see what Zirkzee is about - he is a player that is there to make our attacking play more fluid and therefore making at times quite fast with inverted forwards rather than to play in a traditional number 9 as our only tactic.
He needs the freedom to drop from 9 as deep as a CM to get the best use of him and being a player than interlinks our team rather than playing as the final man on the end of our chances.
I thought Ruud was bought in particularly for Zirkzee to improve his finishing more than Hojlunds but with how little Zirkzee played under both Ten Hag once Hojlund returned and how little Ruud himself used him - this looks to me like an Ineos Ugarte type of signing.
Yeah, the tracking back is always going to be hard to conclude on in highlight videos because what you really want to see is consistent, sustainable effort throughout a game.
I saw the below video a few days ago. It had this interesting analysis that Amorim favours short passes, progressive carries, while playing quite direct.
Zirkzee hasn't got the sort of power to run through a whole team. However, he can certainly drop into pockets in the final third, get the ball, evasive a couple of challenges and release a smart pass.
Be interesting to see what combination starting eleven we go with.
Another player I think will be interesting is Antony.
Hes been top 3 on my dislike list. However, the one thing he excels at is progressive carries, he'll also be playing in a less isolating system and will be prohibited from taking those silly, low xg shots from range as he'll be holding the width in a wingback row. Also the Portuguese connection should with communication.
If this is true... I really wouldn't mind it tbh.
I would. Juve would offer us pennies or some shite loan with option. Why would we sell a player at a massive loss 6 months after signing him and leave ourselves shorthanded up front AGAIN. Would much rather see what Amorim can do with him. Tired of players getting written off so quickly.
Joshua is a quality player and will be of good use to us once we have a manager that can figure out that he is not your typical nr 9 striker. Last cameo showcased what he can do.
And Juve would offer us a used Toyota Corolla and a beard trimmer for our coaching staff. No chance
And Juve would offer us a used Toyota Corolla and a beard trimmer for our coaching staff. No chance
I'm not hugely impressed by what I've seen so far but it's only been a few months in a struggling team and under an inept manager.
I spoke to a colleague who is a Milan fan a month ago and he told me Zirkzee was amazing in Serie A last season. I also spoke to another colleague this week who is a Roma fan who also told me that Zirkzee was a beast and he was playing like a young Zlatan. Apparently all the big clubs in Italy wanted him but couldn't afford him.
I think there is potentially a good player and we need to see if Amorim can unlock him. Maybe he will find a role as one of the number 10s.
It's too early to write him off and we need to give him probably at least this season and next to fairly determine if he is good enough to make it at United or not.
I spoke to a colleague who is a Milan fan a month ago and he told me Zirkzee was amazing in Serie A last season. I also spoke to another colleague this week who is a Roma fan who also told me that Zirkzee was a beast and he was playing like a young Zlatan. Apparently all the big clubs in Italy wanted him but couldn't afford him.
I think there is potentially a good player and we need to see if Amorim can unlock him. Maybe he will find a role as one of the number 10s.
It's too early to write him off and we need to give him probably at least this season and next to fairly determine if he is good enough to make it at United or not.
It has been a very underwhelming start for Zirkzee is a United shirt.
He clearly is not an out and out striker which makes the signing by Ineos a little baffling to me as we needed a goal threat.
My assumption is that the idea of bringing him in was to play maybe a little bit like Firmino did at Liverpool. Him dropping deep was the trigger for Mane & Salah to push forward and come a little bit narrower and lets face it, the pair of them didnt do too badly. I wonder if we thought Rashford and Garnacho could do a similar thing and improve their output in terms of goals and assists if we had a striker dropping off to trigger their movements.
He still has time, iv'e not written him off completely.... Yet, but i do feel like he is very much a 'system' player.
He clearly is not an out and out striker which makes the signing by Ineos a little baffling to me as we needed a goal threat.
My assumption is that the idea of bringing him in was to play maybe a little bit like Firmino did at Liverpool. Him dropping deep was the trigger for Mane & Salah to push forward and come a little bit narrower and lets face it, the pair of them didnt do too badly. I wonder if we thought Rashford and Garnacho could do a similar thing and improve their output in terms of goals and assists if we had a striker dropping off to trigger their movements.
He still has time, iv'e not written him off completely.... Yet, but i do feel like he is very much a 'system' player.
To me he clearly looks like a player who is yet to reach the level of intensity required for the PL, similar to Evra when he arrived.
The difference being Evra came into a functional winning team full of leaders, while Zirkzee is in a team maybe as lost as he is.
I think he’ll come off good
The difference being Evra came into a functional winning team full of leaders, while Zirkzee is in a team maybe as lost as he is.
I think he’ll come off good
If someone were to offer more or less what we paid then maybe - otherwise it's a non-starter..
There's clearly technical ability there, let's get behind the lad for a season at least and see what he can do.
I remember back when we were actually good, players regularly took 12-18 months to properly settle but it went under the radar because results were good.
Also...remember Forlan? The fans never turned on him and he ended up showing what a quality player he was, albeit not quite at United.
I remember back when we were actually good, players regularly took 12-18 months to properly settle but it went under the radar because results were good.
Also...remember Forlan? The fans never turned on him and he ended up showing what a quality player he was, albeit not quite at United.
I can't make out what he's good at other than some neat dribbles and tidy layoffs/passing. Doesn't really seem to utilise his physique much for some reason. I reckon if he added more Fellaininess in his play, he'd be a handful but as it stands not sure he'll pan out unfortunately
Let’s hope he just needs a few goals to give him some confidence.
No need to panic or loan him out just yet. Man City give their players a full season to settle, United online fans give players 45 mins.
No need to panic or loan him out just yet. Man City give their players a full season to settle, United online fans give players 45 mins.
Same thing happens at club who are good right now. New signings at City, Arsenal and Liverpool often take a season or two before they start to look the business. Robertson barely even started any games for his first full season under Klopp. Fabinho took ages to settle too. Havertz was a laughing stock at Arsenal for a similar length of time. etc etc