[Shabby as she goes]

He lost the ball joint most with Garnacho and Bruno kept doing his closing down on the right hand side leaving us open in the middle where Spurs have 3 midfielders vs Casemiro who is 32

I highly doubt this. He barely lost the ball.
You have any stat to back this up?

I actually think his work rate is solid, he’s just pretty fecking slow.

Just weird right now because he’s firmly in that no man’s land of having some serious qualities but no clear fit positionally

What’s wrong with the position he had in this game? Add a proper striker to the team instead of Hojlund and it may work really well

Amorim saying he's now thinner and faster.

Good news but what a joke it's taken until February for him to be properly match fit.

He was match fit, for Italy.
It’s called adapting to a higher level league.

If we get a proper striker, I would sell Rasmus and Keep JZ

Exactly!

Why? Zirkzee and Rasmus aren't competing for tbe same spot in this team.

Because Hojlund adds nothing to the team and Zirkzee does. We just needs a proper striker who can actually finish the opportunities provided by the likes of Zirkzee

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

How many games has he played as a false 9 for us?

Even as a ST he is made to play as a target man than a forward who drops deep.

Amorim played Mainoo as a False 9 instead of Zirkzee.

 

[Ekeke]

I highly doubt this. He barely lost the ball.
You have any stat to back this up?

In the end he was 2nd to Garnacho for losing the ball. I misread it

Still, 2nd most balls lost

These are "Dispossessed" and "Unsafe Touches". Dispossessed meaning he had was tackled when he was in control of the ball and unsafe touches meaning he had a first touch and then lost the ball right away. He comes to 6 and Garnacho comes to 8

If we also consider passing accuracy Zirkzee had 80% of 26 passes, and Garnacho had 72.2% of 18 passes so that would widen the gap too.

 

[stepic]

If he can’t put pressure on the right hand side as one of those 10s then he’s ill fitted for that role. We can’t be relying on centre mids to do that job for him.

 

[FrankWhite]

I highly doubt this. He barely lost the ball.
You have any stat to back this up?


What’s wrong with the position he had in this game? Add a proper striker to the team instead of Hojlund and it may work really well


He was match fit, for Italy.
It’s called adapting to a higher level league.


Exactly!


Because Hojlund adds nothing to the team and Zirkzee does. We just needs a proper striker who can actually finish the opportunities provided by the likes of Zirkzee

You're making the same point. Zirkzee is playing as a 10. Hojlund is a back up 9. We just need to sign a starting 9. The former 2 aren't competing for the same spot.

 

[FrankWhite]

If he can’t put pressure on the right hand side as one of those 10s then he’s ill fitted for that role. We can’t be relying on centre mids to do that job for him.

Yep, the CM's job in this system is hard enough as is, without having to cover the wings. he's a cross btw a striker and CAM. What that role needs is a cross btw a CAM and a Winger.

I made a thread after the summer window where I said him and Yoro have the highest potential of all our signing. I still believe that. In the right system, Zirkzee could be a superstar, especially once he's fully developed. I'm just not sure this is that system.

 

[Marwood]

He was match fit, for Italy.
It’s called adapting to a higher level league.

He looked and was heavy. Italy, England or wherever, you can't turn up like that.

 

[Marwood]

Yep, the CM's job in this system is hard enough as is, without having to cover the wings. he's a cross btw a striker and CAM. What that role needs is a cross btw a CAM and a Winger.

I made a thread after the summer window where I said him and Yoro have the highest potential of all our signing. I still believe that. In the right system, Zirkzee could be a superstar, especially once he's fully developed. I'm just not sure this is that system.

What's a shame is that he could easily be a No.9. It's just a mentality thing. He seems to be telling himself he isn't one. He'll never be a 30 goal a season guy but he seems to have convinced himself scoring goals isn't for him.

Because no other role in today's game suits him. The classic 10 position or second striker role doesn't exist.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

He looked and was heavy. Italy, England or wherever, you can't turn up like that.

Amorim has come out and said he’s thinner.

He wouldn’t have had much of a break between the Euros and coming to United.

I think the issue is more with our pre-season and general fitness focus, which is poor.

Good to see Amorim seems to be addressing this generally.

 

[Marwood]

Amorim has come out and said he’s thinner.

He wouldn’t have had much of a break between the Euros and coming to United.

I think the issue is more with our pre-season and general fitness focus, which is poor.

Good to see Amorim seems to be addressing this generally.

He skipped pre season with us. Can't blame the club's prep. He was just visibly overweight/heavy. No pro should be turning up like that. I hope he's sorted that out for good but it's a bit of a joke to get a move to Utd and think it's OK to turn up out of condition. We've had to wait until February for our summer forward signing to be in the right shape.

 

[OleGunnar20]

I've been impressed by how he's started turning things around since that early sub, that shows a really good sign of mentality and is just the type of character we need in the squad (limited evidence so far of course). Hopefully he keeps on the upward trajectory.

In a functioning team he'd be given far more patience. In this bin fire of a squad you have to say he's done as well as can be expected really.

Having said all that he is a weird fit stylistically. I'd rather see him developed as an option in one of the #10s, unlikely to be an automatic starter, star man, but a valuable squad member. As a #9 I just don't see it at all.

We need to throw everything at getting the best striker, wing back and goalkeeper possible in the summer for me. Midfield is also an issue but I'd rather leave that a year, rely on youth products / loans / free transfers to bridge the gap if it means we can invest in those 3 absolutely dire areas.

 

[Xeque_279]

Yep, the CM's job in this system is hard enough as is, without having to cover the wings. he's a cross btw a striker and CAM. What that role needs is a cross btw a CAM and a Winger.

I made a thread after the summer window where I said him and Yoro have the highest potential of all our signing. I still believe that. In the right system, Zirkzee could be a superstar, especially once he's fully developed. I'm just not sure this is that system.

It works if the other 2 in the top 3 are good on the break. So instead of making the runs himself, he links up with the midfield two to release the top 2. Would've been fun to see him, Amad and Garna get a run of games as the top 3. Paulinho was used similarly in the Sporting set-up.

 

[fps]

Thought I saw a player in there in the last match, had something about him.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

He’s good but this club is going to eat him alive.

 

[romufc]

Thought I saw a player in there in the last match, had something about him.

Completely ruins the team balance though... He can't play as a 9 and cannot play in the 10 in this formation because he cant run back.

He only has 2 speeds. Slow and Stop.

 

[fps]

Completely ruins the team balance though... He can't play as a 9 and cannot play in the 10 in this formation because he cant run back.

He only has 2 speeds. Slow and Stop.

I was thinking him and Bruno certainly can't be in the same team. He does look fitter and sharper though, if that progresses then perhaps he can find a place in the team. You make a good point though, not sure what position. Just like Bruno is a positive but also totally destabilises the side.

 

[romufc]

I was thinking him and Bruno certainly can't be in the same team. He does look fitter and sharper though, if that progresses then perhaps he can find a place in the team. You make a good point though, not sure what position. Just like Bruno is a positive but also totally destabilises the side.

Yeah, I mean on the ball he is good but what about when it comes to making runs into the box? his heading? his off the ball is almost non existent.

I think we should look to sell him in the summer and buy profiles that actually suit our style.

The manager clearly wants pace and power players who will track back rather than luxury players, which is what he is.

 

[Hip Hop]

He can play as a 9 if the two inside forwards are fast and can run in behind when he eventually drop deep acting like a third midfielder or n10 when he is a his best. I’ll keep him over Hojlund because he gives you something different, with more technical abilities.

 

[Hammondo]

Completely ruins the team balance though... He can't play as a 9 and cannot play in the 10 in this formation because he cant run back.

He only has 2 speeds. Slow and Stop.

I agree but no one is doing better at linking up play than him.

 

[Eagle_eye]

He's just unlucky that he has the likes of Garnacho and Hojlund next to him, as his technique is on a different stratosphere to them.

 

[Shabby as she goes]

You're making the same point. Zirkzee is playing as a 10. Hojlund is a back up 9. We just need to sign a starting 9. The former 2 aren't competing for the same spot.

True, we could keep Hojlund as a backup 9 when we get a proper striker in.

But if we get the chance to sell him for around 30M+ (higher than his remaining book value) I’d say we go for it

 

[Kweku Amonoo]

He’s not a midfielder as some are saying. He’s a striker who likes to drop deep and play. He doesn’t make them near post runs, but he always floats around the penalty spot waiting for cut backs. Amorim should notice this and ask the wing backs to look for him there.

He’s a bit like Ibrahimovic in that regard. Zlatan wasn’t always making the typical number 9 runs, but he still scored a lot of goals. Teammates need to understand how he plays and the manager has to as well. He’s not a midfielder!

 

[Olecurls99]

He’s not a midfielder as some are saying. He’s a striker who likes to drop deep and play. He doesn’t make them near post runs, but he always floats around the penalty spot waiting for cut backs. Amorim should notice this and ask the wing backs to look for him there.

He’s a bit like Ibrahimovic in that regard. Zlatan wasn’t always making the typical number 9 runs, but he still scored a lot of goals. Teammates need to understand how he plays and the manager has to as well. He’s not a midfielder!

Somebody needs to make the 6 yard run though or defenses will have a handy job. I suppose one of the 10s or wing backs could do it.

Let's say Dalot has it on the right. Zirkzee goes to 12 yards, Dorgu tries to get in at the back post, Garnacho has to make the front post and Bruno can linger outside the box. Dear God I hope I'm not revealing something to the coaching staff.

 

[Frank Grimes]

He has responded brilliantly to that subbing/booed off game. He needs to improve further though and hopefully he can.

 

[flameinthesun]

Whilst I think he has improved slightly from the low of being booed off, he still is a long way off of being a player suitable for the league. The majority of his good moments come from off the bench or later in games when the game is slowing down a bit. I'm still not convinced that he can handle the speed of the league. Even in his good moments a lot of the times he takes the ball or dribbles nicely and then takes so long to release the ball he ends up being tackled. Needs to quicken up his decision making.

 

[TrailMonkey]

3 goals and 1 assist in 25 PL games tells a lot about him, regardless of the minutes he’s played or the specifics of his role.

Although he’s showed the odd moment, he is not yet suited to our league. You don’t have to be quick or supremely physical to succeed up top, but you sure have to be bloody good at other parts of your game to have an impact.

I commend him for his attitude after being subbed that time, but he’s a poor player in a poorly functioning team. He may come good in years to come, but we don’t have the luxury of time.

 

[DonBecks]

3 goals and 1 assist in 25 PL games tells a lot about him, regardless of the minutes he’s played or the specifics of his role.

Although he’s showed the odd moment, he is not yet suited to our league. You don’t have to be quick or supremely physical to succeed up top, but you sure have to be bloody good at other parts of your game to have an impact.

I commend him for his attitude after being subbed that time, but he’s a poor player in a poorly functioning team. He may come good in years to come, but we don’t have the luxury of time.

You can't disregard his minutes played, he's played the equivalent of 10 full games in those 25 appearances. If you disregard minutes played and focus only on appearances, there is a massive loss of context in the case of your argument. There's even further context in that I'd argue it's much harder to impact a game in full flow within short periods of time in terms of substitute appearances.

I don't think he's been good enough (I think there's a player there though, if he can sort a few things out) but cherry picking stats to suit how we feel about someone is just unfair.

 

[soapythecat]

I’m warning you Zirkzee. He looked so far off anything a few months ago, you wondered what the scouts seen in him. However, he isn’t an out and out goals scorer and his best position isn’t in our system. Long term, I hope he finds a way to make one of the 10 positions his but tomorrow I hope he starts up front.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

The big man bagged 2 against Everton last time out, hopefully does the same tomorrow!

 

[macheda14]

I’m warning you Zirkzee. He looked so far off anything a few months ago, you wondered what the scouts seen in him. However, he isn’t an out and out goals scorer and his best position isn’t in our system. Long term, I hope he finds a way to make one of the 10 positions his but tomorrow I hope he starts up front.

I don’t mind the idea of him and Hopkins starting together. Hojlund needs to start running in behind more like he used to and Zirkzee drags a lot of players towards him. Even though both aren’t for some reason great in the air it also adds to the size of our team.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

What’s wrong with the position he had in this game? Add a proper striker to the team instead of Hojlund and it may work really well

Because you need more of a running threat in that spot. Sure it COULD work, but it's not ideal.

Honestly the easier thing would just be to put a shock collar on the guy in training and zap him every time he doesn't get into the box or refuses to shoot in decent spots.

 

[sherrinford]

Because you need more of a running threat in that spot. Sure it COULD work, but it's not ideal.

Honestly the easier thing would just be to put a shock collar on the guy in training and zap him every time he doesn't get into the box or refuses to shoot in decent spots.

Why? The more obvious spots to provide a running threat are striker and wingback.

 

[Ekeke]

I was thinking him and Bruno certainly can't be in the same team. He does look fitter and sharper though, if that progresses then perhaps he can find a place in the team. You make a good point though, not sure what position. Just like Bruno is a positive but also totally destabilises the side.

It has nothing to do with Bruno and in fact they are opposites.

Based on the performance against Spurs and the half a game before getting hooked where he also played as a #10 he cant play the position because he doesnt work for the team defensively.

Bruno was playing like a madman making 6 tackles and 2 interceptions and trying to cover the Spurs buildup down their left where Maddison was dropping deeper to combine with Spence on the wing. Even someone like Alexis McAllister doesnt do that amount of work for Liverpool, he averages 3.4 tackles and 0.8 interceptions per game whilst covering less ground.

It has nothing to do with other players that Zirkzee can't play the position. Its just that even strikers are expected to close defenders down most of the time these days, so playing a bit deeper as a #10 more is expected and he didnt do any of it.

Now can he do it in the future? Yes. He could. If he put the effort into running and closing down that Bruno did. The more you do it the more your body will get used to it. Are we going to see that change to his mentality? I would say probably not, but if he doesn't change it he wont be playing there. We can't afford a luxury player in that position especially one without luxury player end product

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Why? The more obvious spots to provide a running threat are striker and wingback.

Sure, but those inside players end up with the ball in space quite often in counter situations.

If you're going to be very slow as an attack minded player, you have to make up for that with elite instincts in the final third. Zirkzee doesn't have that right now, so his best use is really as some sort of focal/pivot point that drops off with players running beyond. But again most players that play in that style still have the mind to arrive late in the box to finish off moves whereas he has none of that thrust at the moment. Hence why I said he's sort of positionless in the current iteration.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Zirkzee & Garnacho are the two most fun players to watch this season alongside Amad.

 

[fps]

It has nothing to do with Bruno and in fact they are opposites.

Based on the performance against Spurs and the half a game before getting hooked where he also played as a #10 he cant play the position because he doesnt work for the team defensively.

Bruno was playing like a madman making 6 tackles and 2 interceptions and trying to cover the Spurs buildup down their left where Maddison was dropping deeper to combine with Spence on the wing. Even someone like Alexis McAllister doesnt do that amount of work for Liverpool, he averages 3.4 tackles and 0.8 interceptions per game whilst covering less ground.

It has nothing to do with other players that Zirkzee can't play the position. Its just that even strikers are expected to close defenders down most of the time these days, so playing a bit deeper as a #10 more is expected and he didnt do any of it.

Now can he do it in the future? Yes. He could. If he put the effort into running and closing down that Bruno did. The more you do it the more your body will get used to it. Are we going to see that change to his mentality? I would say probably not, but if he doesn't change it he wont be playing there. We can't afford a luxury player in that position especially one without luxury player end product

No I think you’re wrong, it very much is about the balance of the team and Bruno provides no stability in any defensive shape.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

His technique would absolutely kill it in La Liga.

The PL is a bit to physical and quick for him to constantly do his tricks and skills to a required level & is probably why he was POTY young in the Serie A.

A very enjoyable player but may struggle to impose himself on the game.

 

[Eagle_eye]

Such a wonderfully gifted footballer with a very high footballing IQ. He has been steadily improving and acclimatising to the PL, has shown tremendous character since the Newcastle game and his fitness has been getting better too. It can't be easy playing next to Hojlund and Garnacho who are levels below him technically and in terms of footballing IQ. I have no doubts he'll be a star in this team.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Not as crap as he was made out to be, but nowhere near as good or full of potential as some seem to make him out to be now.

Think he's very much Joao Felix, all fart and no poo. Elegant and graceful, looks nice but it amounts to basically nothing.

 

[FootballHQ]

He was genuinely claiming handball from that header that hit Branthwaite fully in the face?!