John Stones | Done Deal

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shamans said:
Them too had brilliant seaons last year. Just bad Euros
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This is a big problem for me, a young English talent having one good season becomes a 50mil+ player
Consistency makes 50mil players along with stepping up on big occasions, I'm not just judging them on the euros although they were absolutely awful in it
 
SirScholes said:
This is a big problem for me, a young English talent having one good season becomes a 50mil+ player
Consistency makes 50mil players along with stepping up on big occasions, I'm not just judging them on the euros although they were absolutely awful in it
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Well in Kane's case, he was good before this season and everyone had his eyes on him. It was all "will Kane make it this season or will he be just another hyped English talent/flash in the pan".

It's safe to say Kane proved he is not a flash in the pan. He did really well to prove himself when the pressure was on him to do so. Yeah some English talent will just be overpriced but Kane is still only 23 and euro's aside looks like a dangerous prospect/player.
 
shamans said:
Well in Kane's case, he was good before this season and everyone had his eyes on him. It was all "will Kane make it this season or will he be just another hyped English talent/flash in the pan".

It's safe to say Kane proved he is not a flash in the pan. He did really well to prove himself when the pressure was on him to do so. Yeah some English talent will just be overpriced but Kane is still only 23 and euro's aside looks like a dangerous prospect/player.
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Personal opinion I guess but for me he is just your normal decent striker who thrives off eriksen when needed he was found wanting, he's obviously alright I'm not saying he is bad just not worth the hype.
But my overall point of English players being overhyped is very true, to move past our differences on Kane take him out of my original post and replace him with anyone of cities recent English signings, Delph or Sinclair for example
 
devilish said:
Lets stop saying that can we? Most of us must understand that a defender mustn't be a tough tackling bouncer like Vidic, Materazzi or Bruce to be good in defending. Some can actually be excellent defenders (in defending) while barely committing themselves in any tackles. Rio at 23 lead our defence to glory. Stones cant do that.
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Stop saying what?

John Stones is only 22 and has had less than 100 games in the top flight.

Is he has good as those you mentioned? No. But that doesn't mean he's rubbish or can't defend.
 
Trigg said:
Stop saying what?

John Stones is only 22 and has had less than 100 games in the top flight.

Is he has good as those you mentioned? No. But that doesn't mean he's rubbish or can't defend.
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Yes lets stop comparing the best CB of his generation with someone who isnt very good in defending. If you ask me, Stones is more of a Luis then a Rio. Both are ball playing defenders.
 
This forum is so reactionary, a bad season, or even a bad euro's can see a player previously rated as a top class talent on here to overrated trash,
Thats not to say Stones will become a quality player at City, or worth the 50mill fee but he has shown previously a lot of potential,
Coupled that with the fact Martinez isn't renowned for defensive organisation by any stretch of the imagination, and the idea he was unsettled last summer by Chelsea bid's and didn't actually want to be Everton last season at all... you could imagine he could improve drastically at a new club, particuarly under someone like Guardiola.

I'd also like to state for the record Rio in his first few years, playing for West Ham also had a lot of questions over his positioning, tendency to overplay and consistency, it was only until he got a big money move to Leeds that he stepped up. If you'd suggested to a United fan he would go on to be a legend at this club back then, you'd have gotten laughed out of town.
 
[QUOTE="BennyBlanco, post: 19578730, member: 61245"


I'd also like to state for the record Rio in his first few years, playing for West Ham also had a lot of questions over his positioning, tendency to overplay and consistency, it was only until he got a big money move to Leeds that he stepped up. If you'd suggested to a United fan he would go on to be a legend at this club back then, you'd have gotten laughed out of town.[/QUOTE]

Not really. Since United bought him for world record fee for a defender, it's natural for fans to expect Rio became world class cb.
 
Isotope said:
Not really. Since United bought him for world record fee for a defender, it's natural for fans to expect Rio became world class cb.
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Talking about when he went from West Ham to Leeds, as I said, he stepped up under O'leary, at a new club and new coach. It's not impossible for Stones to follow a similar path.
 
BennyBlanco said:
Talking about when he went from West Ham to Leeds, as I said, he stepped up under O'leary, at a new club and new coach. It's not impossible for Stones to follow a similar path.
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Oh agreed. I thought you meant at United. Was it $18m? It was quite a sum at that time.
 
Blind is statistically a better passer and defender than Stones (Squawka). If Stones is worth 50, Blind is worth 70+. Silly considering neither of them can defend that well. You can smell the desperation from City for home grown players.

Stones can improve as a defender? Sure. Valencia can also learn to use his left foot.
 
I posted earlier that the transfer fees this summer would shock us. Depsite that, this one still shocks me. If he ends up being to class, it will come to make sense. I am having a little trouble wrapping my head around the proposed fee at the moment, to be honesr.
 
For once our brand superiority will benefit City, well the second time. Pogba and Stones are both expensive but I know which won't be highlighted much.
 
I don't see the issue with 50 m for stones. You can teach defensive position, situational reaction, work on concentration . What you can't teach at his age is technique also if the signing pans out city will basically have a player than can put in 10 good years!
 
I've been him have a lot of poor games but it could be a case of tuning in during a bad spell and a bit of mismanagement by Martinez. He seems to be highly regarded by Jose and Pep, so I'm assuming there's a big talent in him.
 
Footyislife said:
Blind is statistically a better passer and defender than Stones (Squawka). If Stones is worth 50, Blind is worth 70+. Silly considering neither of them can defend that well. You can smell the desperation from City for home grown players.

Stones can improve as a defender? Sure. Valencia can also learn to use his left foot.
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Speakingo of home grown... is Delph still there? Did he get any games there?
 
zlatan_ish said:
Speakingo of home grown... is Delph still there? Did he get any games there?
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He was injured for a lot of season. Did get game time when fit.

Regarding Stones, I know his stock his down but imo, he is a terrific young player and would be well worth the money for City. Guardialo will get the best out him and in a year or two I expect him to become England's best central defender.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I've been him have a lot of poor games but it could be a case of tuning in during a bad spell and a bit of mismanagement by Martinez. He seems to be highly regarded by Jose and Pep, so I'm assuming there's a big talent in him.
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He was doing the same shit for England.

Also him telling the fans to calm down when he hogged onto the ball suggest it's down to his ego rather than Martinez.
 
SirScholes said:
This is a big problem for me, a young English talent having one good season becomes a 50mil+ player
Consistency makes 50mil players along with stepping up on big occasions, I'm not just judging them on the euros although they were absolutely awful in it
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He isn't worth 50m. His value is 50m. There's a difference
 
Didn't have a good season but he's a quality talent. Defenders that young will always make mistakes.
 
Footyislife said:
Blind is statistically a better passer and defender than Stones (Squawka). If Stones is worth 50, Blind is worth 70+. Silly considering neither of them can defend that well. You can smell the desperation from City for home grown players.

Stones can improve as a defender? Sure. Valencia can also learn to use his left foot.
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That's some impressive logic you've used there :lol:
 
prarek said:
Didn't have a good season but he's a quality talent. Defenders that young will always make mistakes.
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So to be a quality talented CB you need to be young and look like a lad who is comfortable with a ball but shows none of the required qualities for an actual defender. He is certainly not a natural in the position. He was calamitous at best for 12 months.
 
I'd like Stones at United, but at nearly £50m, your gambling an inordinate amount of money on a player that you hope will be receptive to proper defensive coaching.

I can only assume that Guardiola has seen (and heard) enough of Stones to believe that he is capable of learning to defend properly under his tutorship.

And that is what's odd about John Stones, you'd be buying one of the world's most expensive defenders, despite not being certain of his defensive potential.

People liken him to Ferdinand, but Rio was a defender first and foremost and a ball-playing centre half second. He knew when to put his foot through it and when to play out from the back. Stones has shown an over-confidence in his ability with the ball without having consistently shown the defensive solidity to warrant the adoration he has received.

His valuation will pale into insignificance if he can get it together. And to know that, you have to know the psyche of the player. No amount of video analysis will tell you whether he's worth the financial outlay.
 
RedorDead21 said:
So to be a quality talented CB you need to be young and look like a lad who is comfortable with a ball but shows none of the required qualities for an actual defender. He is certainly not a natural in the position. He was calamitous at best for 12 months.
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If it was 20m you might have a gamble but for 50m i think pep's going to be disappointed.
 
Jacko21 said:
I'd like Stones at United, but at nearly £50m, your gambling an inordinate amount of money on a player that you hope will be receptive to proper defensive coaching.

I can only assume that Guardiola has seen (and heard) enough of Stones to believe that he is capable of learning to defend properly under his tutorship.

And that is what's odd about John Stones, you'd be buying one of the world's most expensive defenders, despite not being certain of his defensive potential.

People liken him to Ferdinand, but Rio was a defender first and foremost and a ball-playing centre half second. He knew when to put his foot through it and when to play out from the back. Stones has shown an over-confidence in his ability with the ball without having consistently shown the defensive solidity to warrant the adoration he has received.

His valuation will pale into insignificance if he can get it together. And to know that, you have to know the psyche of the player. No amount of video analysis will tell you whether he's worth the financial outlay.
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Yeah, for a 50m defender he's not too great at defending.
 
Distracted Steward said:
I posted earlier that the transfer fees this summer would shock us. Depsite that, this one still shocks me. If he ends up being to class, it will come to make sense. I am having a little trouble wrapping my head around the proposed fee at the moment, to be honesr.
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Yeah, 50m for potential alone is a hell of a lot.
 
The money is irrelevant, they won't notice it one way or another.

The problem is for him, like sterling, its sink or swim. And sterling sank. They cannot carry young players having the expected form fluctuations, that si what sterling is, its also what stones is. Long term its crippling for careers (although they are fine money wise, maybe that's the important part), and short term they are nto an answer to the problems city have.

No one wins really, other than city escape from their home grown quota problem.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
The money is irrelevant, they won't notice it one way or another.

The problem is for him, like sterling, its sink or swim. And sterling sank. They cannot carry young players having the expected form fluctuations, that si what sterling is, its also what stones is. Long term its crippling for careers (although they are fine money wise, maybe that's the important part), and short term they are nto an answer to the problems city have.

No one wins really, other than city escape from their home grown quota problem.
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Fully agree regarding 'sink or swim' and the pressure transfer fees place on players, though the outlay isn't 'irrelevant'. No amount of money, regardless of owner wealth, is irrelevant. Manchester City are just as committed to a sound financial structure as every other major club - City's owners are no longer amortising/writing-off fees or injecting cash at will. They still have to be prudent, compliant, profit-driven and attractive to investors. And that means being sensible in the transfer market.

After all, if money was 'irrelevant', they wouldn't bother negotiating would they?
 
It's just the same as Pogba, in that there is very little else out there that's available and of the required quality. Add in the homegrown pressure and a PL club and it's easy to see why £50m plus is the going rate.

Pointless mocking the fee.
 
Why can't we have a propaganda paper like these clubs? Would be great shit stirring tactic. Can make force City hand on more expensive fee...
 
Footyislife said:
Blind is statistically a better passer and defender than Stones (Squawka). If Stones is worth 50, Blind is worth 70+. Silly considering neither of them can defend that well. You can smell the desperation from City for home grown players.

Stones can improve as a defender? Sure. Valencia can also learn to use his left foot.
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You should setup a Twitter parody account. Seriously funny.
 
Sammyjunn said:
This is the reason why EPL womt be the best even though it's by far the richest, clubs will just buy more overrated and overpriced players and dont actually get much better.
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I totally agree but I did for a moment think you were talking about pogba.
 
Transfer fees often have more to do with the clubs involved and time left on contract than the actually player. If Paul Pogba was a French international playing for Saint Etienne the fee would not be as high. In this situation Everton are financially stable, Stones has three years left on his contract so it is going to take a big fee to get him.
 
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