I didn't expect anyone to vote on the party line in this referendum. Don't think the politicians did either which is why they were all allowed to vote as they saw fit.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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I just saw the Vice documentary. And I cringed. It is not a competent Leader's Office.
regarding de/reselection:
In terms of 'is he popular with the grassroots of the party', it's not as simple a question as it would be in the US.
The membership vote for who the new leader of the party is, and 422,000 people voted in Corbyn's leadership election. It would definitely be fair to say that he had the majority of the grassroots support at that point, but the grassroots/ members aren't exactly equivalent to the 9.4m people who voted for the Labour party in 2015. For obvious reasons, it's therefore hard to draw any comparisons with Sanders and the US Primary model. If all of those 9.4m voted for a leader of the party I've no idea who we'd end up with, but it would be unlikely to be Corbyn, who attracts more of the fringe left-wing support.
In terms of the EU referendum, it's unclear what Corbyn's personal views are, though his campaigning was pretty pitiful. It seems likely that he supported 'remain' because it was what the majority of the party wanted, and then his poor performance can be put down to either his lack of media skills, his personal disaffinity with the EU, or his poor campaigning abilities. None are really positives.
Exactly. I'm gonna post it here for those who haven't seen it. I can't believe anyone can watch it and still blame the MPs for trying to oust him.
"It's not up to me to throw in - other than a couple of lines - about that the government is in a mess." - Jeremy Corbyn, on preparing to respond to David Cameron in Parliament after Iain Duncan Smith resigns and calls the budget and welfare cuts unfair.
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That's been my experience too. When you turn up to Labour meetings and campaigning events, it's the same people who've been there for the past decade.
Yeah, it's questionable whether they'd have the strength in enough constituencies to actually pull much off, but the worry is that it's essentially what Momentum was designed for - the quick mobilisation of loyalists against perceived enemies of Corbyn. If he manages to survive a membership vote, given how absurdly clear it is that he cannot continue, it suggests they're capable of doing such.
It's a lot more clear and I can see both sides of it now.
The majority of the Labour Party did vote remain, over two thirds in fact.
If this happens then I will have to leave the Party. We are a representative democracy, we do not have delegates.
What the hell is supposed to happen if MPs are privy to national security briefings? Run them past the CLP branch first to ensure how to respond?
My personal take on the referendum was that the Tories were pushing for this due to internal party struggles and most of the left apart from a fringe extreme was keen on remaining in the EU. As such, I thought this would be an opportune time for the Labour to capitalize on the fighting within the Tory party and Corbyn and the Labour would push hard for remain vote, picking up disgruntled Tory voters who would vote remain.
In the end, as Red Defence said, the vote wasn't party lines and although Labour supporters voted 60% to remain, it seems that Corbyn didn't push it too hard and in the end now facing internal struggle within his own party. Is this closer to the truth?
'if people want to get rid of him, the best thing to do is wait for Jeremy to fail.........I don't think he will, but you know, let him fail in his own time'.
That was his PA!
Cracked me up.
That was his PA!
Cracked me up.
Since we are doing TTOI references, Labour MPs abstaining from the welfare bill reminds me of the time Leader of Opposition Nicola Murray decided to be tough on school breakfast so that she could claim to be fiscally responsible.
Labour are such a ridiculous shambles atm they'll probably get rid of Corbyn and elect Diane Abbott.
Momentum is what happens when the ghost of Eric Heffer starts a protest movement. Deselection? Again with this crap?
It's no coincidence that the Campaign for Labour Party Democracy is a hard-left enclave, they see it as the easiest way to enact their agenda.
On a somewhat related note, by the sounds of it local government Labour leaders are going to be calling for him to go soon. Wonder whether/when the whips plan on going.
They have only been given refugee status which is temporary
Jesus christ that was difficult to watch. The arrogance just pours off him. This is a time for knee deep in the trenches warfare against the Tories, not for ivory tower socialist idealism ffs.
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Its not an open door. She did the noble thing, she didn't wash her hands of the problem and leave Southern Europe to take care of them
So in your opinion it's fine for MPs to go against the memberships will but it's not okay for the elected leader to put in place MPs who align to the mandate he was selected on? That's a ridiculous position to take
If Corbyn wins again then it's time for a party split. Let the wider electorate decide
Yes, but Merkel didn't acknowledge this until the end of January, which was a major blunder.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-seekers-that-German-refuge-is-temporary.html
What is ridiculous is this proposed return to the 1980's days of Leftist infighting and ideological purity.
First, I would question what exactly the 'membership's will' is. All members? Or just those which turn up to the CLP meetings? What exactly does that mean? Secondly, constituency parties have always been able to select and deselect members if they so wish. likewise, MPs, as representatives, have always been able to exercise their consciences independently of instructions from constituents. Are we really wanting MPs to follow the idea of a nebulous 'will of the members'? If that was the case no Tory MP would have voted for same-sex marriage.
Second, a leader of a political party is not a monarch. He or she cannot simply appoint acolytes to follow his or her whims.
Labour supporters were complaining from the rooftops about Blair and Brown's use of the Whip to stifle dissent. This is exactly the same thing. It opens the door for the faithful to staff key positions and dictate policy. Recall by-elections? For what reason? This opens the door for punitive measures against any who do not tow the leader's line.
If the Labour Party fractures then we return to 1983 and the SDP split, except that instead of ushering in 15 years of Tory rule, it will likely usher in 25.
That was their status all along, not just from January. The war is Syria has been going on for for 4 years, who knows how much longer it will last. Temporary in this case could be 5+ years.
You're being deliberately obtuse. I'm talking about Merkel's acknowledgement of the limits of their refugee status, or rather the lack of acknowledgement until it was too late.
Her shift in tone at the start of this year has been widely discussed in Germany and is seen as a blunder, so I don't see why you're pretending there's no issue with how it's played out. You asked what Merkel could have done differently, and that's your answer.
It would not have changed the number of refugees coming signifcantly. There war has been going on 5 years. Your clinging onto a minor matter like its the answer to the refugee crisis
We were discussing how to mitigate the negative reaction from the public to accepting a large number of refugees. Explaining their temporary status and the reluctant short-term necessity in taking large numbers of people would have been a much better PR approach than her initial 'open door' explanation of the situation.
The bolded part really pisses me off, to be honest. As a member, I get countless messages inviting me to events and meetings - primarily at weekends. Do you know why I can't go and help out? Because I'm fecking WORKING! Working in one of my three jobs that has no guaranteed hours or even paid sick leave, never mind holidays! That's why I'm a member of the Labour Party, paying my subs so that people can campaign on my behalf. I'd imagine the vast majority of new members are in the exact same boat.
Can anyone name any Labour MP who prominently campaigned for Remain? I know Alan Johnson, how many can the average member of the public name? Especially during a campaign that 80% of the print media was on the side of Leave, giving far less prominence to the remain side? It's easy to single out Corbyn as the leader, but where were the rest of the Labour Party over the last 6 months?
Problem is, No Corbyn and a return to Neo Liberal Blairite Labour and we will guaranteed, end up with the Far Right taking over.
I feel a little like you - although I'm retired and so (theoretically) have lots of time, for all sorts of reasons I don't go out that much and I don't have lots of time. When I was young, I was an activist. Now I just field endless requests for money from the Labour Party.
Labour don't have many big hitters left who can get column inches. The party basically made the mistake of disowning all the successful cabinet members from the Blair/Brown era rather than embracing them as 'party grandees' who can help to sway opinion in the media and give some shine to the new crop.
He really needs to be making speeches all over the shop, letting people know what he thinks about everything under the sun. Get on Question Time, get on Graham Norton's show, get soundbites out there. I understand he's more left wing than recent labour leaders, but I don't really know what he stands for. I don't go out of my way to listen to Cameron, but I've got no choice coz he's everywhere. He's the PM, so I appreciate that he'll be in the news a lot, but so should the leader of the opposition.
Kinnock shouted from the rooftops. Blair used the media. It seems like Corbyn expects things to just fall into his lap without trying.
Kinnock shouted from the rooftops. Blair used the media. It seems like Corbyn expects things to just fall into his lap without trying.
But thats always been the case with refugees, she wasn't saying anything new
Anyone got a source for the 2/3rd of Labour voters voting remain thing? Thanks
Well, Merkel belatedly realised her mistake, even if you don't.
Labour are in deep shit. It's getting to the stage where it might be a good thing if the party breaks up so that the left and center can start a fresh. The same could be said about the Tories. In fact the whole first past the post system needs rethinking.
Disagree completely.
You can't succeed with a split in a first past the post system and it's not going anywhere soon.
Depressing isn't it.