Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Glad that Labour are taking action but would like to see the media holding the Tories to the same standard. Somehow I doubt Guido is going through Boris Johnson's journalistic career with a highlighter looking for bigoted attitudes, although in his defence he'd probably run out of highlighter.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
Glad that Labour are taking action but would like to see the media holding the Tories to the same standard. Somehow I doubt Guido is going through Boris Johnson's journalistic career with a highlighter looking for bigoted attitudes, although in his defence he'd probably run out of highlighter.
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You don't need to go far back Boris' career to find the odd bigoted nonsense.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
Glad that Labour are taking action but would like to see the media holding the Tories to the same standard. Somehow I doubt Guido is going through Boris Johnson's journalistic career with a highlighter looking for bigoted attitudes, although in his defence he'd probably run out of highlighter.
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It is indeed welcome that Labour are now acting more swiftly, yet outcomes may well be another matter entirely. I don't think that anyone is so complacent as to imagine that the other parties are paragons , they might have different blind spots though. The media loves nothing better than a scandal: if Conservative societies an universities were leaving the stench of organised racism or discrimination in their wake, the hounds wouldn't walk on by.

@rcoobc posted an article last year about racial attitudes in the UK, and although principally about UKIP it did seem to suggest that the further left or right you go, the worse anti-Semitism becomes. The Telegraph suggested as much in a recent article, with claims that the Labour Party's compliance unit has increasingly been called into action over the past 12 months.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
It is indeed welcome that Labour are now acting more swiftly, yet outcomes may well be another matter entirely. I don't think that anyone is so complacent as to imagine that the other parties are paragons , they might have different blind spots though. The media loves nothing better than a scandal: if Conservative societies an universities were leaving the stench of organised racism or discrimination in their wake, the hounds wouldn't walk on by.

@rcoobc posted an article last year about racial attitudes in the UK, and although principally about UKIP it did seem to suggest that the further left or right you go, the worse anti-Semitism becomes. The Telegraph suggested as much in a recent article, with claims that the Labour Party's compliance unit has increasingly been called into action over the past 12 months.
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On the bolded, there's definitely a double-standard, whether it's in the forms of racism we find most shocking or perhaps because Conservative uni groups being full of horrible wankers isn't considered unexpected enough to be newsworthy. As someone who used to work uni bars and has friend I've heard first and second-hand of Conservative societies from many different universities engaging in racist and otherwise offensive behaviour. I suspect one factor in it not making front-page news is that the sorts of people who end up writing for or editing right-wing newspaper were doing the same when they were at uni.

I guess the long and short of the 2nd paragraph is that ignorant people are often drawn to simplistic black and white world views that uncritical adherence to 'extreme' political dogma of whatever ilk provides.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
On the bolded, there's definitely a double-standard, whether it's in the forms of racism we find most shocking or perhaps because Conservative uni groups being full of horrible wankers isn't considered unexpected enough to be newsworthy. As someone who used to work uni bars and has friend I've heard first and second-hand of Conservative societies from many different universities engaging in racist and otherwise offensive behaviour. I suspect one factor in it not making front-page news is that the sorts of people who end up writing for or editing right-wing newspaper were doing the same when they were at uni.
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That sill leaves the various media outlets who are not aligned with the Tory Party, or do you think they wouldn't report such stories either? And in light of this anti-Semitism row, it wouldn't be surprising if the papers directed some sort of sting at the associations of other parties.

I was just doing a quick google to check that i had the spelling of Shami Chakrabarti correct, and came across the following story by the Jewish Chronicle:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/1...s-group-says-antisemitism-claims-are-baseless

Feldman might well have to be binned, although Labour would only be repeating the Government's difficulties in staging major inquiries.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
That sill leaves the various media outlets who are not aligned with the Tory Party, or do you think they wouldn't report such stories either? And in light of this anti-Semitism row, it wouldn't be surprising if the papers directed some sort of sting at the associations of other parties.

I was just doing a quick google to check that i had the spelling of Shami Chakrabarti correct, and came across the following story by the Jewish Chronicle:

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/1...s-group-says-antisemitism-claims-are-baseless

Feldman might well have to be binned, although Labour would only be repeating the Government's difficulties in staging major inquiries.
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I read that and the report they linked to and he explains his points very systematically -- why they accepted and rejected some definitions. The issues with the EUMC definition which your linked article would lead you to believe is unimpeachable are explained in the report.
 
berbatrick said:
I read that and the report they linked to and he explains his points very systematically -- why they accepted and rejected some definitions. The issues with the EUMC definition which your linked article would lead you to believe is unimpeachable are explained in the report.
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The links appear to be busted at present, can you give some examples?
 
Cameron is cnut. It's painfully obvious Corbyn isn't cut out for this kind of stuff. PMQs was a painful watch today.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Was it as bad as this? I had it on in the background and it did seem like Corbyn took a pasting.

http://www.theguardian.com/global/2...n-pmqs-verdict-wretched-17-minutes-for-corbyn
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Cameron did well in the sense that he dodged Corbyn's line of attack and put the pressure back on Corbyn, but on the other hand the absence of any new material (the stuff Cameron was throwing at Corbyn was largely stuff the media chewed up and spat out last Autumn) it was a pretty transparent attempt to avoid talking about issues. I guess it did what was intended though, which was to prevent Corbyn getting any soundbites in that might chime with people before tomorrow's vote.
 
Adisa said:
Cameron is cnut. It's painfully obvious Corbyn isn't cut out for this kind of stuff. PMQs was a painful watch today.
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If he can't handle this how can anyone expect him to run a country?
 
Ducklegs said:
If he can't handle this how can anyone expect him to run a country?
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Have you seen the way they behave in parliament? Anyone who can stop themselves from trying to kick the Tory party's kunting bollocks in is showing enormous restraint. I can't listen to PMQs, halfway through the twats first word and I want to smash the feckers face in.
 
MoBeats said:
Have you seen the way they behave in parliament? Anyone who can stop themselves from trying to kick the Tory party's kunting bollocks in is showing enormous restraint. I can't listen to PMQs, halfway through the twats first word and I want to smash the feckers face in.
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I have yes, but that's part of the job.
It's no different from having to overcome twats in any other work place, not that Jeremy "man of the people" Corbyn would know about that, as he's never had a proper job either but that's by the by.
 
If it's like that where you work then you have my sympathies. I work around grown ups.
 
Early days ,but it does not seem as bad for Labour in England as the opinion polls would have you believe. Scotland on the other hand.
 
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Drifter said:
Early days ,but it does not seem as bad for Labour in England as the opinion polls would have you believe. Scotland and Wales on the other hand.
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But only one seat has changed hands from Labour to Plaid so far.
 
Drifter said:
Early days ,but it does not seem as bad for Labour in England as the opinion polls would have you believe. Scotland on the other hand.
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Poor Blairites will have to throw out their prepared statements calling for him to resign. I'm sure we'll still have some within the party trying to awkwardly still call this catastrophic.

I can't be bothered to get that interested in local elections. I really don't think theyre indicative of anything.
 
I think this proves that Scotland has not become more left wing but rather more nationalist and anti-English.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Of all of the possibilities among the shadow cabinet, Abbott has to be one of the worst candidates for damage limitation at a time like this. For heaven's sake, she was embroiled in a race row of her own during Miliband's tenure (not for the first time either).



Listening to her, the inquiry could be devalued to little more than a PR exercise. Although with it being independent that danger ought to be mitigated.
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Just seen this awful womans interview. This is a subject that is clearly important to Marr and I don't recall ever seeing so angry before. Abbott is an embarrassment.
 
Smores said:
Poor Blairites will have to throw out their prepared statements calling for him to resign. I'm sure we'll still have some within the party trying to awkwardly still call this catastrophic.

I can't be bothered to get that interested in local elections. I really don't think theyre indicative of anything.
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Yep. Hopefully the Blairites will keep quiet now and get behind Corbyn and Labour .Won't hold my breath though.
 
Smores said:
Poor Blairites will have to throw out their prepared statements calling for him to resign. I'm sure we'll still have some within the party trying to awkwardly still call this catastrophic.

I can't be bothered to get that interested in local elections. I really don't think theyre indicative of anything.
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Just think how well Corbyn would be doing if it wasn't for the cnuts in his own party trying to undermine him...
 
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Marching said:
Just seen this awful womans interview. This is a subject that is clearly important to Marr and I don't recall ever seeing so angry before. Abbott is an embarrassment.
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She just didn't seem willing to grasp the importance of the matter, with even the tone of her voice when describing it as 'online abuse' intended to downplay the issue.

Yet it should probably come as no surprise...
Wikipedia:

In 1988 Abbott claimed, at a black studies conference in Philadelphia, that "the British invented racism."

In 1996, Abbott attracted widespread criticism when she claimed that at her local hospital "blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" were unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before". Abbott's apology came as Marc Wadsworth, executive member of the Anti-Racist Alliance, who is himself half Finnish, pointed out that the present Miss Finland, Lola Odusoga, is black, of Nigerian and Finnish descent. "She's a black Finn like me," he said. Abbott's position was supported by fellow Labour MP Bernie Grant: "Bringing someone here from Finland who has never seen a black person before and expecting them to have to have some empathy with black people is nonsense. Scandinavian people don't know black people—they probably don't know how to take their temperature".

On 4 January 2012, Abbott tweeted that: "White people love playing 'divide and rule' We should not play their game", which again led to widespread criticism including accusations of racism. Only after being told by the Labour Party leadership that the comment was unacceptable did she apologise for "any offence caused", claiming that she had not intended to "make generalisations about white people". The Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg called her comments a "stupid and crass generalisation". Nadhim Zahawi, Conservative MP, said: "This is racism. If this was a white member of Parliament saying that all black people want to do bad things to us he would have resigned within the hour or been sacked." Members of the public lodged complaints but the Metropolitan Police stated that no investigation would be launched and no charges would be brought against her, saying she "did not commit a criminal offence."

In January 2012 Abbott suggested that taxi drivers discriminate on racial grounds, tweeting that she was "Dubious of black people claiming they’ve never experienced racism. Ever tried hailing a taxi I always wonder?"
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I know it's minimal change but that's not good enough for the main opposition. Labour should be doing better than this.
 
But it was no where near the disaster the polls had predicted and also those Blairites had hoped for.
 
sun_tzu said:
Due to get smashed in Scotland next year... I think the Conservatives could seriously have a shot at 2nd if things carry on as they are
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/snp-hold-30-point-lead-in-new-ipsos.html?m=1
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So it happened... And I think the implications are going to be fairly significant
If labour are not going to get those Scottish mps back in the next election (and based on these results that looks more likely than ever)
Which means the two routes back to power for Labour are either winning a fek load of seats in England or a snp / labour coalition
Winning seats in England would probably require a move to the centre and Blairite type policies (highly unlikely under comrade Corbyn's leadership)
A snp coalition was seen very negatively by English voters in the last election and I can only see the threat being equally negative for them next time... Plus surely the concession that would be demanded would be another referendum making labour's path to victory in the future ever more difficult.
In short they are fecked unless they can somehow balance Corbyn / momentum type retroric with policies that appeal to UK marginal constituencies
The conference will be civil war within the party... Particularly if the conservatives have the Trident main gate vote around the same time
 
The mid-term aspect aside, the Government has had twelve months littered with controversy and u-turns. This shouldn't be an occasion where party grandees are on TV putting a spin on losses, even minor ones.

I think there could be a lesson in the Scottish elections for Labour this morning, although i don't know who English Labour's Ruth Davidson is.
 
I think 'losing' Scotland could be what pushes Labour to move for a form of PR in Parliament. I believe it's only them and the Tories who don't support it at present, it would surely be an easy win for Corbyn and the party to make that their next big campaign - Chukka (among other Labour MPs) was calling for it yesterday.
 
Adisa said:
I know it's minimal change but that's not good enough for the main opposition. Labour should be doing better than this.
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How many seats do you think Labour should have then? If it's not good enough then you must have an idea in mind, is it just more?

The last benchmark here was at a time where Labour were doing well and tories in omnishambles mode so do you think they should be beating that?

BBC reporter was saying they should be gaining 100+ seats. Ludicrous and shows they don't really understand what they're talking about.
 
sun_tzu said:
So it happened... And I think the implications are going to be fairly significant
If labour are not going to get those Scottish mps back in the next election (and based on these results that looks more likely than ever)
Which means the two routes back to power for Labour are either winning a fek load of seats in England or a snp / labour coalition
Winning seats in England would probably require a move to the centre and Blairite type policies (highly unlikely under comrade Corbyn's leadership)
A snp coalition was seen very negatively by English voters in the last election and I can only see the threat being equally negative for them next time... Plus surely the concession that would be demanded would be another referendum making labour's path to victory in the future ever more difficult.
In short they are fecked unless they can somehow balance Corbyn / momentum type retroric with policies that appeal to UK marginal constituencies
The conference will be civil war within the party... Particularly if the conservatives have the Trident main gate vote around the same time
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They'd have got fecked in Scotland regardless of who's in power down South. Scotland is the complete perfect storm of problems for Labour.
 
NinjaFletch said:
They'd have got fecked in Scotland regardless of who's in power down South. Scotland is the complete perfect storm of problems for Labour.
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Many of which have been self-inflicted, and date back prior to the Scottish referendum; whereas in England, Labour has issues with personality and policy. I'm not sure whether the fundamentals have altered a greater deal since the GE: the centrists are still searching for a coherent policy agenda, and Corbyn's baggage continues to create problems.
 
Smores said:
How many seats do you think Labour should have then? If it's not good enough then you must have an idea in mind, is it just more?

The last benchmark here was at a time where Labour were doing well and tories in omnishambles mode so do you think they should be beating that?

BBC reporter was saying they should be gaining 100+ seats. Ludicrous and shows they don't really understand what they're talking about.
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This is the first opposition party since 1982 under Foot not to gain seats in the locals. 2012 wasn't a high point in any way, the high point was under Blair when Labour had over 10,000 councillors across the country, now they have under 7,000. And the Tories have just had ANOTHER omnishambles budget, are riven on Europe and we're about a month after the Panama Papers leaks.

Also, this talk on "Blairites" - it's not the Blairites you have to be wary of, it's the Brownites. They managed to depose a sitting Prime Minister, prime conspirator among which is currently sitting as Deputy Leader.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Many of which have been self-inflicted, and date back prior to the Scottish referendum; whereas in England, Labour has issues with personality and policy. I'm not sure whether the fundamentals have altered a greater deal since the GE: the centrists are still searching for a coherent policy agenda, and Corbyn's baggage continues to create problems.
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This is a massively simplified but I remember hearing that idea of the Centrists/Blairites was to keep the economics of the right/big business but move the social aspect move to the left(Gay rights/immigration/health/welfare and others) but now that the tory party have ''cleaned'' their image the Centrists are essentially fecked.
 
Sweet Square said:
This is a massively simplified but I remember hearing that idea of the Centrists/Blairites was to keep the economics of the right/big business but move the social aspect move to the left(Gay rights/immigration/health/welfare and others) but now that the tory party have ''cleaned'' their image the Centrists are essentially fecked.
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Cameron has dragged them towards the centre but there are large parts of the Tory party that hate him for it,I can see a lurch to the right post referendum.
 
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