Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

jeff_goldblum said:
On housing, Corbyn's policy seems to be to build more affordable housing than the Tories are. And then of course there's the idea of a rent cap, which would have the dual effect of making it easier for tenants to save money for a deposit whilst renting, and also deincentivizing the hoarding of property by landlords which reduces the supply of affordable housing on the market and makes prices so high in the first place.

Where I live in Durham, landlords can get away with charging students 2-3 times the going rate so local renters can't find value-for-money accommodation in the city centre. Being able to charge students ~£400pm for a room in a terrace also incentivizes landlords to hoover up all the properties that would normally be ideal 'starter homes', driving up prices and pushing potential buyers (especially younger ones) miles out of town. I'm sure there are similar situations everywhere, not least in London. For all their spin, at the moment it's Tory housing policy and it's extreme deference to private landlords that is holding people back from owning their own homes.
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That same 'extreme deference' that has resulted in private landlords launching a legal challenge to Osborne's punitive changes to the tax treatment of BTL?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...investors-to-challenge-tax-hike-in-court.html

EDIT: Rent cap and cooling the housing market are unlikely to prompt housebuilders to ramp up construction either, but hey ho...
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Although the matter of Trident has the potential for splits within the party in the near term, i would consider his views on the Falklands and IS to be a greater threat to Labour's electoral hopes.
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What's wrong with his views on IS?
 
sun_tzu said:
Opening up dialogue whilst they rape and kill and plot attacks in Western countries... Rather than you know blowing them up
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Okay cool, well I'm glad that our military action in Syria solved the problem and that there is no possible potential for benefits from back channel talks of any sort with them.
 
sun_tzu said:
Good point... Let's parachute jez into Raqqa and let him negotiate world peace
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Don't be thick. At some point, after the blowing-up, you still have to talk and organize a power structure/government...no matter who you are fighting. Now I do agree that ISIS can't really be negotiated with, but you can't really blow them all away either.
 
Still, it frustrates me that Corbyn isn't even slightly trying to play the game - I mean for fecks sake, how hard is it to just dodge the foreign policy questions?

This country is way too jingoistic and full of itself to ever really agree with him on that stuff, hence why we feel the burning need for the militaristic viagra that is Trident.
 
Grinner said:
Don't be thick. At some point, after the blowing-up, you still have to talk and organize a power structure/government...no matter who you are fighting. Now I do agree that ISIS can't really be negotiated with, but you can't really blow them all away either.
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I think the point was that negotiation with ISIS isn't a credible option at the moment, and we haven't seen anything else on the table from Jezza to resolve this.
 
Grinner said:
Don't be thick. At some point, after the blowing-up, you still have to talk and organize a power structure/government...no matter who you are fighting. Now I do agree that ISIS can't really be negotiated with, but you can't really blow them all away either.
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Talk with the people you intend to help organise a power structure / government... That simply can't be isis or any "moderate isis" so don't talk to them and blow up as many as you can
 
sun_tzu said:
Talk with the people you intend to help organise a power structure / government... That simply can't be isis or any "moderate isis" so don't talk to them and blow up as many as you can
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It's all so simple, it's all so black and white.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Although the matter of Trident has the potential for splits within the party in the near term, i would consider his views on the Falklands and IS to be a greater threat to Labour's electoral hopes. Corbyn will be given a scenario in hwich he must stand up to Argentina either diplomatically or militarily, and the man is going to refuse to do so. Forget about lame ducks, he'll be a dead duck.

Switching to domestic policy issues for a moment:

Why has the Beckett Report been suppressed for all of these months by the leadership?

Secondly, what is the extent of Corbyn's housing policy for those people who wish to buy their own home? In what way does it differ from the Government's, which he has criticised?
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I don't think his views on IS, once you get past the media spin, are that radical. Unless he's changed tone recently, its always been about a mediated solution in Syria, which isn't that controversial.

But I can't understand how anyone can side with Argentina over the Falklands, maybe thats me having been brainwashed by British discourse, but surely the self-determination of settlers supersedes the claim to the land from 200 years ago? If they want to be British let them be British, if they want to be Argentinian let them be Argentinian. You can't exactly ask the penguins which country they'd rather belong to.
 
NinjaFletch said:
I don't think his views on IS, once you get past the media spin, are that radical. Unless he's changed tone recently, its always been about a mediated solution in Syria, which isn't that controversial.

But I can't understand how anyone can side with Argentina over the Falklands, maybe thats me having been brainwashed by British discourse, but surely the self-determination of settlers supersedes the claim to the land from 200 years ago? If they want to be British let them be British, if they want to be Argentinian let them be Argentinian. You can't exactly ask the penguins which country they'd rather belong to.
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The thing with the Falklands question was it was asked in the context of the new Argentinian president apparently wanting to be less combative with the UK on the Falklands, and basically saying that the issue is getting in the way of the two countries cooperating in other ways. Notice how Marr says "sovereignty and so forth". Talks would not have to end in Argentina owning the Falkland Island and could still be beneficial for both parties in terms of improving diplomatic relations. So one example I've seen is that British ships are banned from docking in Buenos Aires, furthermore any ship flying the Falklands flag is banned from docking in any port in the entire Mercosur bloc. Would it not be worth at least considering talks in an attempt to improve our relationship with such a big part of South America, especially while Argentina has a president who seems much less aggressive, and much more open on the issue?

To be honest I don't even know if what is the right answer but the way this is being debated as "don't let those argie cnuts on our Island you pacifist bastard!" seems facile to me.

But alas, we cannot show any weakness by talking to our enemies! For we are Britain! And we have nukes and stuff, so who the feck is gonna mess with us? Yeah, that's right.

PS Watching the video again he doesn't even actually say "no veto" he says the Islanders have a right to stay where they are and a right to decide on their own future. This is mad.
 
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I don't see the point of the Falklands either. We came, we saw, we kicked their ass....now let's just give them back and move on.
 
Grinner said:
I don't see the point of the Falklands either. We came, we saw, we kicked their ass....now let's just give them back and move on.
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Give over an island of brits to argentine rule, can only assume you're wumming, or I missed something earlier in the thread.
 
sun_tzu said:
Talk with the people you intend to help organise a power structure / government... That simply can't be Taliban or any "moderate taliban" so don't talk to them and blow up as many as you can
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And yet, 15 years after the worst attack on US soil (note that ISIS haven't attacked UK yet), they talk to the Taliban.
 
Silva said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-cat-and-instead-simply-calls-it-the-cat.html

How long before the daily mail run Corbyn's foreign hitler-looking cat
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At least he's in good company

Breakfast-at-Tiffany-s-audrey-hepburn-2297274-1024-576.jpg
 
I think we should renew Trident but even if you disagree with that view buying the subs and then not putting nukes on them seems quite a bizarre idea.

He needs to stop making policy on the hoof because he wants to answer the question to show how unlike all other politicians he is. He is still supposed to be a politician and these are the basics of being one. Don't make crazy shit up on the spot to look good just say its under review for a few years while you can come up with a cohesive policy.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
On housing, Corbyn's policy seems to be to build more affordable housing than the Tories are. And then of course there's the idea of a rent cap, which would have the dual effect of making it easier for tenants to save money for a deposit whilst renting, and also deincentivizing the hoarding of property by landlords which reduces the supply of affordable housing on the market and makes prices so high in the first place.

Where I live in Durham, landlords can get away with charging students 2-3 times the going rate so local renters can't find value-for-money accommodation in the city centre. Being able to charge students ~£400pm for a room in a terrace also incentivizes landlords to hoover up all the properties that would normally be ideal 'starter homes', driving up prices and pushing potential buyers (especially younger ones) miles out of town. I'm sure there are similar situations everywhere, not least in London. For all their spin, at the moment it's Tory housing policy and it's extreme deference to private landlords that is holding people back from owning their own homes.
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Corbyn's housing policy has little new to offer for those people desirous of purchasing a home, as opposed to renting or residing in a council property. Any of us could say that we are going to build more houses, yet i don't see why Labour's pledges should be believed over anyone else's. His viewing the problem through the prism of an Islington constituency doesn't help either: whilst the Tories' 400,000 cap should actually make a difference locally, the bottom line is that space is at a premium and voters may have no choice other than to move. Unless he wants to put up a few Shards in the borough.

Additionally, there is the issue of what housing stock to build and where, a decision which can leave properties empty on account of their unsuitability (this has been witnessed in towns and cities across the country since the boom years of the 2000s). You talk of 'affordable housing', yet all too often this translates into cheap, low quality and inadequate. The Coalition's loosening of planning restrictions can only have made the situation worse still.

Present policy, of whichever hue, is not going to alter the pattern of residence and why it is a challenge to meet the public demand. Better would be attempts to improve sustainability and infrastructure at some of our market and coastal towns, as well as smaller cities. HS2, which is probably the largest project of its kind current on the books, will benefit but a few large urban centres.


Shamwow said:
What's wrong with his views on IS?
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Besides the argument to reduce its sources of funding, which is more of a long term project anyway, Corbyn's ideas are of little immediate or practical benefit. He also opposed military intervention in Iraq; the Labour leader was happy to sit back and let events play out as they will, likely viewing them as some form of vindication. From a domestic standpoint, the position adopted on drone strikes and Jihadi John could not but be electorally damaging. From the plight of Yazidis to terrorism on European streets, the average voter is not going to want to hear that dialogue with IS is the basis by which a prospective PM will operate.
 
sun_tzu said:
I think the panic will set in after the Scottish and local elections
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Only the local elections should have an impact.

I don't think there is anything any Labour leader could do to redeem Scotland. The real damage was done during the referendum campaign
 
Untied said:
Only the local elections should have an impact.

I don't think there is anything any Labour leader could do to redeem Scotland. The real damage was done during the referendum campaign
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One of his supporters' arguments in favour of him during the leadership race was that only his leftwingness could win back Scotland, so I'd say it's fair to judge him on it.
 
Ubik said:
One of his supporters' arguments in favour of him during the leadership race was that only his leftwingness could win back Scotland, so I'd say it's fair to judge him on it.
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The SNP are such an amorphous blob of a party that you can't really go toe to toe with them on anything. If Labour form a more coherent left wing option than the SNP then the SNP just appeal to their nationalist edge. The only way Labour could win back Scotland is by somehow splitting the nationalist vote, I just don't see it happening.
 
NinjaFletch said:
The SNP are such an amorphous blob of a party that you can't really go toe to toe with them on anything. If Labour form a more coherent left wing option than the SNP then the SNP just appeal to their nationalist edge. The only way Labour could win back Scotland is by somehow splitting the nationalist vote, I just don't see it happening.
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Then if the Scottish seats are effectively being written off Labour has a huge problem
One of the reasons according to their own report into the election for their poor performance was voters in England not wanting the SNP in a Westminister power sharing arrangement - So Labour needs to win a lot more English / Welsh seats to form a government and are Corbyns policies really going to achieve that? - I doubt it
Longer term should Scotland leave the union it will be an even more stark problem as there wont even be the possibility of an SNP - Labour coalition (though I think it would be so toxic long term to labour they would be idiots to do it anyway).
 
sun_tzu said:
Tucked away in the you gov poll

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.n...m8d71xdb9/InternalResults_160115_Corbyn_W.pdf

If Jeremy Corbyn remains leader of the Labour party, how likely or unlikely do you think it is that they will win the next general election?
Very Likely 4%
Fairly Likely 10%
Fairly Unlikely 26%
Very Unlikely 43%
Dont Know 16%

Total likely = 14%
Total Unlikely = 69%
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So much bad stuff in there. Cameron at -14 with C2DEs, Corbyn at -44(!!).

This also makes a good point:
 
sun_tzu said:
Then if the Scottish seats are effectively being written off Labour has a huge problem
One of the reasons according to their own report into the election for their poor performance was voters in England not wanting the SNP in a Westminister power sharing arrangement - So Labour needs to win a lot more English / Welsh seats to form a government and are Corbyns policies really going to achieve that? - I doubt it
Longer term should Scotland leave the union it will be an even more stark problem as there wont even be the possibility of an SNP - Labour coalition (though I think it would be so toxic long term to labour they would be idiots to do it anyway).
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Agreed its a massive problem for the Labour party, but its one that goes far beyond Corbyn and I can't see them being able to solve it regardless of leadership.

Tbh, the way the wind seems to be blowing I can see Scotland being an independent country within the next 10 years.
 
What Corbyn actually said about negotiating with ISIS:

AM: Back at the time of the IRA in full flood as it were, the government said, ‘no talking to terrorists,’ ‘no talking to terrorists’. People like you who suggest talking to terrorists are themselves like terrorists. We now know of course they were talking to the IRA from very early stages, and the same in other parts of the world. Now, obviously Isis can’t be part of the Vienna talks at the moment, but do you think there should be a back channel, should we be talking to Isis at this point already, making some kind of contact with them?

JC: The British government maintained a channel to the IRA all through the Troubles.

AM: I don’t doubt it.

JC: I don’t condemn them for that. I don’t condemn them for keeping a back channel to Taliban. I think you have to look at the sources of Isis’s funding, you have to look at the relationship with Turkey, with Saudi Arabia, with Iran and many other countries of the world.

AM: My question is should we be talking to Isis?

JC: There has to be some routes through somewhere, because remember a lot of the commanders in Isil, particularly in Iraq but to some extent in Syria, are actually former officers in the Iraqi army, because we made many catastrophic mistakes, one of which was to destroy the whole Iraqi state structure after 2003.

AM: Absolutely. So we could have a dialogue with these people?

JC: No, I’m – dialogue is perhaps the wrong word to use. I think there has to be some understanding of where their strong points are, where their weak points are and how we can challenge their ideology.

AM: But some kind of ... negotiation.

JC: And so I believe that the neighbouring governments in the region are in touch. Look at the way in which there’s been some degree at times of prisoner exchange, or hostage exchange, things like that. Look, we’ve got to bring about a political solution in Syria, that’s something I’ve been calling for all along. So Vienna has made a lot of progress. It’s got to go a lot further and a lot faster, there’s got to be peace. But war crimes have got to be addressed.
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fecking outrageous.
 
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