Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Drifter said:
If Corbyn steps down ,you watch all this concern about anti-semitism in the Labour Party disappear .
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Not a chance
If the ehrc report is as bad as the Jewish labour movement document suggests this is going to go on for a while
It might make sense to keep Corbyn round long enough to chuck him under the bus when it gets published
But there will be potential prosecutions ... Court cases and ultimately potentially huge claims and financial reprocussions

It could even potentially bankrupt labour
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...estigation-corbyn-executive-a9153561.html?amp

I certainly don't think it disappears when Corbyn finally goes
 
It never fails to amaze me that some deny the report and claim it's a smear. They cling to the fact that it was the JLM's submission, but they forget there are many more cases submitted to the EHRC from others within Labour.
 
Super Hans said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The establishment want people to believe this man hates Jews. <a href="https://t.co/zaj6dpx7dy">pic.twitter.com/zaj6dpx7dy</a></p>&mdash; Scott Jackson (@scottjunglist1) <a href="">December 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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JC's undying condemnation of the IRA consists of 5 EDMs, none of which that he tabled, and none before 1994, and an article about Ian Paisley's widow saying he was polite.
 
Super Hans said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The establishment want people to believe this man hates Jews. <a href="https://t.co/zaj6dpx7dy">pic.twitter.com/zaj6dpx7dy</a></p>&mdash; Scott Jackson (@scottjunglist1) <a href="">December 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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You're making the innocent mistake of taking a politician's word as writ. This is what I can never fathom with Corbyn's supporters, they treat every word that comes out of his mouth like it is some form of gospel truth. His actions and deeds conflict massively with what he talks about. Just look at his whole stance on Brexit as an example.
 
KingCantona87 said:
You're making the innocent mistake of taking a politician's word as writ. This is what I can never fathom with Corbyn's supporters, they treat every word that comes out of his mouth like it is some form of gospel truth. His actions and deeds conflict massively with what he talks about. Just look at his whole stance on Brexit as an example.
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I’d have to disagree, I think Corbyn is one of those politicians that genuinely and consistently abides by his principles, his voting record in parliament dignifies that.

You could argue his Brexit stance is abit of an outlier but I feel that’s his attempt to placate some form of democratic consensus within his party.

Outside of Brexit, what other issues do you think he’s contradicted himself on?
 
Kaos said:
I’d have to disagree, I think Corbyn is one of those politicians that genuinely and consistently abides by his principles, his voting record in parliament dignifies that.
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Love this. If this was a current labour MP consistently voting against Corbyn, you wouldn’t applaud them for voting with their principles, you’d be asking why they hadn’t been deselected.
 
nickm said:
Love this. If this was a current labour MP consistently voting against Corbyn, you wouldn’t applaud them for voting with their principles, you’d be asking why they hadn’t been deselected.
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Sure, if their sole 'principle' from their entire time in politics was to oppose anything Corbyn stood for then full marks for consistency. But again I'd question their ambition if all they stood for was 'Anything But Corbyn'.
 
Almost like having a record-breakingly unpopular leader offering yet more Brexit negotiations wasn't a vote winner. Finally, after all the debate, Corbyn has proven to be the unmitigated, unelectable disaster his detractors consistently said he was. Well fecking done.

Good news is that Labour will have a long time in opposition to get itself together.
 
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sullydnl said:
Almost like having a record-breakingly unpopular leader offering yet more Brexit negotiations wasn't a good idea vote winner. Finally, after all the debate, Corbyn has proven to be the unmitigated, unelectable disaster his detractors consistently said he was. Well fecking done.

Good news is that Labour will have a long time in opposition to get itself together.
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Nah, it was all just paper talk, remember?


Shit wait, does this mean no free Broadband anymore? Damn, whilst I was dying waiting for a hospital appointment, I was hoping to at least watch some truly free porn :(
 
Redlambs said:
Nah, it was all just paper talk, remember?


Shit wait, does this mean no free Broadband anymore? Damn, whilst I was dying waiting for a hospital appointment, I was hoping to at least watch some truly free porn :(
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Sure showed those centrists though.
 
Thoughts going forward:

1) Brexit should presumably now be somewhat neutralized as a divisive issue within the party given that remaining is now no longer an option politically. Labour as an opposition party are confronted with a Tory government who are now entirely responsible for Brexit and all that comes with it. It will hardly matter whether they're being criticized for Brexit as a concept or the particular version of Brexit they deliver. All stripes can now back a block anti-Tory message.

2) The problem of having an unelectable leader will also shortly be a non-issue, provided another equally unpopular leader isn't elected.

3) This just leaves the split in the party between the left and centrists. As ever, the onus is on the dominant force within the party to convince the others to follow. Throughout Corbyn's reign the left in the party have done the opposite, actively attacking the centrist group. This was a clearly factor in the election defeat and is something the left of the party need to accept was a critical mistake on their part. They have to woo the centrists. That doesn't necessarily mean suddenly adopting centrist policies but it does mean not acting like such insufferable cnuts, as if they don't need the moderates in the slightest. They do. Unfortunately the reaction from the left of the party tonight seems to largely be to continue attacking the moderates, as if they're to blame for Corbyn proving as inept as was long predicted.
 
sullydnl said:
Thoughts going forward:

1) Brexit should presumably now be somewhat neutralized as a divisive issue within the party given that remaining is now no longer an option politically. Labour as an opposition party are confronted with a Tory government who are now entirely responsible for Brexit and all that comes with it. It will hardly matter whether they're being criticized for Brexit as a concept or the particular version of Brexit they deliver. All stripes can now back a block anti-Tory message.

2) The problem of having an unelectable leader will also shortly be a non-issue, provided another equally unpopular leader isn't elected.

3) This just leaves the split in the party between the left and centrists. As ever, the onus is on the dominant force within the party to convince the others to follow. Throughout Corbyn's reign the left in the party have done the opposite, actively attacking the centrist group. This was a clearly factor in the election defeat and is something the left of the party need to accept was a critical mistake on their part. They have to woo the centrists. That doesn't necessarily mean suddenly adopting centrist policies but it does mean not acting like such insufferable cnuts, as if they don't need the moderates in the slightest. They do. Unfortunately the reaction from the left of the party tonight seems to largely be to continue attacking the moderates, as if they're to blame for Corbyn proving as inept as was long predicted.
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I agree with all that.

The problem going forward is I just don't see brexit biting the Tories in the ass like everyone seems to be relying on, it's dangerous for Labour to expect that. They need to get their shit together, unite behind a strong leader and properly (not just the usual soundbite shite) go through their failings.



Or just blame brexit and keep telling everyone else to feck off and vote Tory.
 
Reckon he's going to have many nights lying awake thinking that all this was not worth it in the end. Could have just stayed a obscure backbencher activist whose constituents were loyal to him. Could have walked after 2017 when he managed to make the most gains in seats for the party in a long time and bringing mainstream attention to left wing values. Instead he's been hanging on to power despite being smeared relentlessly. Character assasinations, own party MPs turning against him, hostile media and now a humiliating loss.

If it were me I'd be haunted for the rest of my days as like Michael Foot his name will be a synonym for failed leadership from here on in.
 
Boycott said:
Reckon he's going to have many nights lying awake thinking that all this was not worth it in the end. Could have just stayed a obscure backbencher activist whose constituents were loyal to him. Could have walked after 2017 when he managed to make the most gains in seats for the party in a long time and bringing mainstream attention to left wing values. Instead he's been hanging on to power despite being smeared relentlessly. Character assasinations, own party MPs turning against him, hostile media and now a humiliating loss.

If it were me I'd be haunted for the rest of my days as like Michael Foot his name will be a synonym for failed leadership from here on in.
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Thoughtful post. Corbyn just seemed too proud to walk in the end.
 
Boycott said:
Reckon he's going to have many nights lying awake thinking that all this was not worth it in the end. Could have just stayed a obscure backbencher activist whose constituents were loyal to him. Could have walked after 2017 when he managed to make the most gains in seats for the party in a long time and bringing mainstream attention to left wing values. Instead he's been hanging on to power despite being smeared relentlessly. Character assasinations, own party MPs turning against him, hostile media and now a humiliating loss.

If it were me I'd be haunted for the rest of my days as like Michael Foot his name will be a synonym for failed leadership from here on in.
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It’s probably worse than that, as he basically presented his whole ideology to the country, and was soundly told to feck off. To present a manifesto that (in his eyes) would appeal to the masses and give them a voice, and for it to be brutally rejected, must be heartbreaking.
 
T00lsh3d said:
It’s probably worse than that, as he basically presented his whole ideology to the country, and was soundly told to feck off. To present a manifesto that (in his eyes) would appeal to the masses and give them a voice, and for it to be brutally rejected, must be heartbreaking.
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His policies according to polls were popular, the manifesto wasn't extreme at all. Combination of his leadership and brexit caused his loss.
 
T00lsh3d said:
It’s probably worse than that, as he basically presented his whole ideology to the country, and was soundly told to feck off. To present a manifesto that (in his eyes) would appeal to the masses and give them a voice, and for it to be brutally rejected, must be heartbreaking.
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Very good point.

If he succeeded and got elected his agenda probably would have been emulated in other nations. Now it'll be seen as a warning. I can think of two US presidential candidates who might get hit by the fact a swing to the left against a blowhard right winger has got rejected.

I actually like Corbyn on a general basis. I think he's a decent guy. Voted for him. But it's hard to deny being on the fringes of the party for thirty years to becoming leader of the party is not the path to winning an election. Typically parties either find someone who is good on camera and a bit of a salesman, or someone who held a position on the front bench or committee therefore trained for the job. Corbyn was neither. He was just your typical constituency MP who was doing a good job to keep his seat for years and pursued some activism. No ambition for power until it fell in his lap in 2015. Then he couldn't let go.
 
2mufc0 said:
His policies according to polls were popular, the manifesto wasn't extreme at all. Combination of his leadership and brexit caused his loss.
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I think this is comforting and therefore should be treated with complete skepticism.
 
Corbyn needs to go, now. I don't really see what he thinks his role in shaping the party's future, when a new leader is elected it will be their job to design a platform to make the party electable again and anything Corbyn does or says now is totally irrelevent. Besides, it's not his place to lead the discussion about what the party should prioritise going forward, he's already proved himself incapable of leading the party or designing a platform that attracts broad support.
 
I think I've revised my opinion on Corbyn being this inherently benign character. He's shown spectacular arrogance since leading Labour to a humiliating defeat. There had been glimpses of this conceitedness in the past but his avuncular geniality always made me give him the benefit of the doubt.

He's Labour's David Moyes.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I think I've revised my opinion on Corbyn being this inherently benign character. He's shown spectacular arrogance since leading Labour to a humiliating defeat. There had been glimpses of this conceitedness in the past but his avuncular geniality always made me give him the benefit of the doubt.

He's Labour's David Moyes.
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Yep, should have stepped down immediately when the results came out, he’s now painting himself in not so good colours.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I think I've revised my opinion on Corbyn being this inherently benign character. He's shown spectacular arrogance since leading Labour to a humiliating defeat. There had been glimpses of this conceitedness in the past but his avuncular geniality always made me give him the benefit of the doubt.

He's Labour's David Moyes.
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I've been saying that for ages. His appearance makes people think he's a soft old man but he harbours a hatred and a desire to divide the country like I've never seen before in the UK.
 
11101 said:
I've been saying that for ages. His appearance makes people think he's a soft old man but he harbours a hatred and a desire to divide the country like I've never seen before in the UK.
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His continued stand in defiance of his toxicity to the wider electorate and the leftist cause in Britain is worrying. His inability to show genuine contrition for his mismanagement of the party and campaign can only reflect a deep-seated arrogance. The idea that he's going to hang around to anoint a new disciple to carry forward the crusade of Corbynism portends to a bleak future for the Labour party in this country.
 
11101 said:
I've been saying that for ages. His appearance makes people think he's a soft old man but he harbours a hatred and a desire to divide the country like I've never seen before in the UK.
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Can you expand on this?
 
Cascarino said:
Can you expand on this?
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Actually I am wrong. The last politician I remember like him was Nick Griffin.

Forget the anti semitism issue, although it's hardly a stretch to believe a man who openly supports Palestine might not view Israel too fondly. That's for another discussion.

My main reason for saying it is how he wanted to split the country into two, the rich v the poor. He wanted to turn wealth into an enemy and turn people against anybody successful, every speech and piece of the campaign contained references to it, 'us v them', 'the many v the few' etc. He wanted to drive a wedge down the middle of the country. Its incredibly divisive and I've not seen anybody so openly and actively trying to turn sections of the public against each other before.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
His continued stand in defiance of his toxicity to the wider electorate and the leftist cause in Britain is worrying. His inability to show genuine contrition for his mismanagement of the party and campaign can only reflect a deep-seated arrogance. The idea that he's going to hang around to anoint a new disciple to carry forward the crusade of Corbynism portends to a bleak future for the Labour party in this country.
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Yes, I think so too. The only person to win an election for Labour in my lifetime is Tony Blair. The circumstances of his rise to become leader were very unusual and timed to very specific moments which are unlikely ever to be recreated.

He got to define himself in the public's eye by avoiding the negative attacks which were aimed at John Smith who passed away leaving Blair untarnished. The Tories were also divided and too busy fighting among themselves.

Its depressing to think that Labour has no one the public knows well from a public recognition point of view, so the Tory press will define the next leader just as odiously as they always do and that will be how the public see them for the next four years. It doesn't look good for winning the next election.
 
Redlambs said:
So, he's still there eh?

Labour: Same as it ever was.
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Its been a few days. The changes will come.
Its not easy for the PLP and other senior labour figureheads but as much as they want to avoid dramatic infighting ish headlines they will be working behind the scenes for Corbyn to go to start the process of getting a new leader sooner rather than later.
 
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