There's no winner here, Smores. We all lose. Brexit is giving me serious stress and anxiety at this point, I'd happily vote for a Corbyn government if he could guarantee that he would cancel Brexit but so far he has done nothing to suggest he would, nor does he seem to take it seriously enough in my opinion.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
- Thread starter unchanged_lineup
- Start date
There's no winner here, Smores. We all lose. Brexit is giving me serious stress and anxiety at this point, I'd happily vote for a Corbyn government if he could guarantee that he would cancel Brexit but so far he has done nothing to suggest he would, nor does he seem to take it seriously enough in my opinion.
What's the relevance of this? I am not defending the murder of unarmed men by British soldiers and I'm certainly not a tory.
How is Chuka being there helpful though? His 2nd referendum idea - which is all he’s got - doesn’t have a majority in the House of Commons.
Just a reminder of the type of people you're batting for with your constant attacks on Corbyn
It's only unhelpful when the leader of the opposition takes unnecessary exception to it instead of doing his job and walks out.
I'm not batting for either team. It's not mutually exclusive.
For the 95th time, why is it his job to be lectured to by a PM who even the other parties say went there in bad faith not intending to listen, and whose own speech last night backed that up?
It's his job to attend meetings about the biggest national crisis affecting Britain, one which will affect this country for the next 20-30 years minimum. He has a responsibility to his party and his constituents. I have answered this question multiple times, you just don't like the answer.
Based on what the other parties said, based on any reasonable interpretation of Teresa May's speech, what was to be achieved by attending it? In reality that is, not hypothetically
Nothing but again, that does not mean you don't try.
I'm just going out on a limb here but having read the last couple of day's posts you're a Labour supporter I reckon!
SDLP (for now, it's complicated) but of the British parties I'd lean towards Labour, yeah!
I won't be voting for him next time either as i think we need a refresh to drop some baggage.
I just think people need to appreciate that we've had thousand of hours debate in the commons and over a hundred PMQs since the vote. Then you've got all the break away groups and formal cross-party brexit committees. All these have made the same arguments for 2 years, the fact the PM is not listening is not on the leader of the opposition who can only protest or table amendments when allowed.
Labour (including Corbyn and excluding) have done a lot in the commons and lords to steer brexit but there's only so much you can do. We've tried to get rid of her, censored her, submitted her to the biggest defeats on record but if she won't budge or listen and her own MPs won't force it then thats the limit of powers reached.
I don't know if Labours approach of letting backbenchers (Benn, Cooper etc) do the dirty work is the most effective way forward but I'm certain in my mind that Corbyn going all out peoples vote won't change a thing. Even the idiot TIG got reprimanded by the people's vote for being premature on it
That's a spectacularly weak criticism. Look, if an election is called and Corbyn doesn't throw his weight behind a 2nd vote, I'll have to concede with a heavy heart that a potentially great PM has choked on the biggest issue and place my faith in someone else. But until then, with the Tories pausing their backstabbing only to block an election, there is nothing Corbyn can do, due to cold parliamentary arithmetic and May's stubborn refusal to seek cross-bench consensus.
Going all out for a second vote now would take on all the risks of splitting Labour without any of the potential gains of an actual election.
Maybe a Corbynista would hate me for making him sound impotent here, but you can only criticise someone for what they can control. He can't fix this by himself.
Last edited:
Jeez...
BBC reporter said:
Effective opposition innit?
Chuka should have worn a balaclava. JC would have met him then.
I vote and voted Labour at the last GE despite Corbyn. If his views on Brexit don’t represent mine (and by extension my current MP as she is Shadow Leader of the House of Commons) I will not be voting Labour in the next GE.
Horrendous journalism more like.
And that's fair. But politically, declaring his hand on brexit now, before any hint of an election, is all risk and no reward.
We are potentially a week away from leaving with no deal. There is no grand master plan hidden under the table. He's just a bit shit.
How would you fix it, as leader of the opposition, in this week?
Could anyone have been there then? It’s totally undemocratic to allow someone to start a privately funded company, very loosely dressed up as a party, declare himself leader and start acting like this.
It’s not that I disagree with his policies, it’s that it’s ludicrous to give them any legitimacy and I applaud Corbyn for calling them out for the conmen they are.
Take over by force, disband parliament, throw the queen in the tower and declare myself ruler for life.
Like what? The one thing Theresa May did get spot on last night was that all the MPs are full of reasons why we can't do something, but nobody is coming up with anything on what we can do. Jeremy Corbyn is especially guilty of that.
She wasn't 'spot on' about that at all given she actively whipped the Conservatives to vote against indicative votes to decide what should be done.
It’s so easy to say that, and so hard to vote for something you know is going to harm your country. I don’t envy MPs with this responsibility.
It’s her job to come up with a way of Brexiting that convinces a majority - and she hasn’t done it. That can only be her fault, and it’s such poor leadership to blame those who she hasn’t convinced. Buck stops with her.
It's an impossible job. Brexit was sold on the back of a lie that we would have this smooth transition into utopia. We were never going to get a great deal from the EU because it was dead against their interests to offer one.
We have their deal, no deal, or revoke the whole thing. With 8 days left there are no other options and MPs need to stop pretending like there should be and pick one of them. If Corbyn was even slightly bothered he would have set out his own vision and tried to steer the government down it months ago.
Y'know, I was being sarcastic when I blamed Corbyn for not controlling his Tory party. You sound serious.
Firstly Labour made sure that parliament was actually involved in the process rather than sidesteps and they've held them to account with amendments on the process since, that's discounting blocking a majority that would have led to Tories doing whatever they wanted.
Your second point is oblivious to proceedings though, Labour have put forward their ideas for at least 6 months heck its been voted on twice. Then they've proposed ways for May to break the impasse several times with indicative votes and a peoples vote. The ways forward are very clear and obvious but May won't listen or change her red lines.
I really don't attribute any blame or judgement when i say this but just because you don't keep up with parliament activities doesn't mean nothings happening. For those of who watch can see the efforts either side of the house particularly backbench
At this point Labour have let me down as much as those in power.
I'm convinced they really don't want the reigns.
I'm convinced they really don't want the reigns.
Be honest ,who would.
I should have clarified. Realistic ideas.
True.
Corbyn is perfect foil for those who want the shadow position and connections but not the actual role though.
Haha, give up @Smores. He'll just keep moving the goalposts
Can't really agree here tbh. Labour have contested the processes of Brexit, but rarely the principles. By, at various points, ruling out single market membership, the existing customs union and the free movement of people, the debate has been around exactly what version of hard brexit is best, not whether we should have it at all. There's never been a serious push in Parliament by Labour for a soft Brexit and certainly no serious threat of trying to invoke a second referendum. The Remain vote has no meaningful voice in Parliament and as such Theresa May has been able to act like they don't exist.
I disagree about soft brexit, Labours position is very much that but that's a matter of opinion.
On the remain side I'd agree but I've long said it would be about the right time to push it and that had to be when all else failed i.e now. Even the Peoples Vote have pushed that principle. There's not been the numbers for a new referendum and won't be til there's desperation
Soft brexit is certainly a matter of perspective, but during the referendum campaign Labour's position would not have been called soft Brexit. Its a measure of how far we've travelled that it is considered as such by some.
Not sure that's a fair comment about the People's Vote. Last week they said wasnt the right time when TIG tabled a bill, but that was just talking about the events of last week. Their initial roadmap makes it clear that its the sooner the better and likewise they make it clear that the process has to begin long in advance of the end of March 2019 in order to handle the legislation required. If Labour were serious about suggesting a PV, they've long since missed the bus.
The Corbyn thread is a bit like the player performance threads. You can't criticise them because their disciples never think they do anything wrong ever.
Problem with Corbyn you can't say he "puts in a shift" or "runs around a lot".
Problem with Corbyn you can't say he "puts in a shift" or "runs around a lot".