Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Mozza said:
To be fair, Mrs Brown's Boys is shit, and anyone who enjoys it is a moron
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There are more of us, than there are of you. Maybe if the so-called high brow intelligent people stopped talking down to/patronizing/excluding/ostracizing us common folk, we'd be less likely to vote for people that play on our fears and tell us what we want to hear.

^This is how I expect those type of people feel when it come to politics. Constantly being preached at by the left/liberals/democrats and made to feel inadequate/irrelevant, so they vote for the people that promise them better. This is what I think that lady is talking about when she referenced those TV shows.
 
They've dumbed-down our culture for years, and now they're using the patronising excuse of 'listening to the people' as a mandate for further dumbing-down. They've served us a steady diet of mediocrity while ignoring higher culture* in an attempt to render it obsolete; this - along with the painfully cringeworthy effort to be down with the common folk - is what it's all about.

*No, I'm not expecting to see Philip Seymour-Smith chatting to Jonathan Bloody Ross about Chilean poetry anytime soon but...when did you last see an author (whose work wasn't highlighted in an Asda display, or endorsed by Richard & Judy) interviewed on a talk show? When did you last see a televised book show, or one that wasn't fronted by a comedian like Jo Brand? And that's just the high-falutin', 'poncey' world of literature, never mind other arts.

Reading/learning: it's not for you, apparently, despite reading being the second-favourite hobby amongst Britons.
 
sun_tzu said:
Yeah but it's just a conspiracy from us blue labour Blairites or something and it's momentum who have their fingers on the pulse of uk politics
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Corbyn is shit and Labour's response to Brexit has been disastrous. But the degree to which he is perceived as shit by the public has been successfully achieved by 2 years of sniping, media attacks, etc.

Every time Theresa May speaks the pound plummets, something that would historically hammer someone's credibility, but the game of politics seems to have completely changed (and as Stephen Bush says the left and the right play on different difficulty settings)
 
SteveJ said:
They've dumbed-down our culture for years, and now they're using the patronising excuse of 'listening to the people' as a mandate for further dumbing-down. They've served us a steady diet of mediocrity while ignoring higher culture* in an attempt to render it obsolete; this - along with the painfully cringeworthy effort to be down with the common folk - is what it's all about.

*No, I'm not expecting to see Philip Seymour-Smith chatting to Jonathan Bloody Ross about Chilean poetry anytime soon but...when did you last see an author (whose work wasn't highlighted in an Asda display, or endorsed by Richard & Judy) interviewed on a talk show? When did you last see a televised book show, or one that wasn't fronted by a comedian like Jo Brand? And that's just the high-falutin', 'poncey' world of literature, never mind other arts.

Reading/learning: it's not for you, apparently, despite reading being the second-favourite hobby amongst Britons.
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Sadly she's right though, I value knowledge, intelligence, literacy, grammar and being well read but I'm still only one voice, one vote and society has voted with it's (possibly webbed) feet for anti intellectualism and populism time and again whilst I sit with my head in my hands wondering how the communal "we" can be so stupid. The sensible, humane side of politics needs to find a way to make itself relevant to the common man again or it is doomed because sadly the wheedling, self interested big business side of politics whilst looking down it's nose at the common man has always stooped to talk on his level and guarantee it will pick up the votes it least merits.
 
Bury Red said:
The sensible, humane side of politics needs to find a way to make itself relevant to the common man again or it is doomed because sadly the wheedling, self interested big business side of politics whilst looking down it's nose at the common man has always stooped to talk on his level and guarantee it will pick up the votes it least merits.
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Perhaps that sensible human side of politics as you call it has been more than a little guilty of talking in their echo chamber?

And perhaps judging people in terms of common man and big business is a little outdated it's self?

Certainly I see more populism coming though... sound bite politics and people simply trying to boil down specific messages that different groups want to hear into snappy social media friendly messages.

I think twitter is perhaps the most obvious tool for this but the whole medium of social networks seems to have a propensity towards echo Chambers and division.

Sadly I see it getting worse...
 
Untied said:
Corbyn is shit and Labour's response to Brexit has been disastrous. But the degree to which he is perceived as shit by the public has been successfully achieved by 2 years of sniping, media attacks, etc.
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There's a lot of truth in that, but that's the job. Twas ever thus.
 
sun_tzu said:
Perhaps that sensible human side of politics as you call it has been more than a little guilty of talking in their echo chamber?

And perhaps judging people in terms of common man and big business is a little outdated it's self?

Certainly I see more populism coming though... sound bite politics and people simply trying to boil down specific messages that different groups want to hear into snappy social media friendly messages.

I think twitter is perhaps the most obvious tool for this but the whole medium of social networks seems to have a propensity towards echo Chambers and division.

Sadly I see it getting worse...
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Definitely guilty of it, particularly with the SJW/political correctness side where the left took the uncomfortable silence as a sign the world was following whilst all the time a resentment was fermenting.

Similarly I'd have been one of the first to debate individuality and self determinism and the abilities for workers to shape business from the inside but it's difficult to come up with a better shorthand than the common man or big business though when we're agreeing that a 140 character limit is the attention span of your target audience.

I can't see it changing for some time and don't like the way it's going but think Stella Creasy sums up the problems the hard left of Labour face if they are ever to get their politics back on track.
 
ThierryHenry said:
Do you disagree with the point about cultural isolation and seperation? I think it's a real worry, though it may just be that this has always been the case. I'd be interested to find out.
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I'm not too sure what she means by cultural isolation and separation, really ? If she talking about the isolation and separation between Labour and it's voter base, then that's been decades in the making. From keeping the economic policy of Thachism/Neolibrasilm that not only did nothing to help former industrial communities that where destroyed only a few years before but was also in part responsible for the crash in 08. And then the complete acceptance and fuelling of austerity afterwards.

It was Labour who got in bed with the right wing bigoted press who consistently push anti immigration propaganda and it was The Labour Party who nicked the slogan from the BNP - ''British jobs for British people''. And then there's just foreign policy in general with has caused choas almost everywhere( well since the early 2000's). Suddenly we can't be so shocked when there's a big anti immigration sentiment in the country.

Labour also did nothing during the 90's and 2000's to try and stop the voters they where losing - they lost around 4 million voters in the New Labour years, I image part of that had to do with the economic policy and the parachuting into communities of such great arseholes like Tristram Hunt, a failed careerist who had not only no connection with the communities he represented but actually didn't care as well.

All of this was missing in the speech, a complete lack of understanding of how the role of politics of places like the Fabian Society have caused the situation we have today. But hey you know what will fix all of this..... ''A grown up form of socialism'' and buckets full of ice cold water.

 
Sweet Square said:
Labour also did nothing during the 90's and 2000's to try and stop the voters they where losing - they lost around 4 million voters in the New Labour years, I image part of that had to do with the economic policy and the parachuting into communities of such great arseholes like Tristram Hunt, a failed careerist who had not only no connection with the communities he represented but actually didn't care as well.
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I wish that 4 (or 5) million votes thing would disappear. Most of them either died or are voting Tory.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/10/22/labours-lost-votes/
 
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If there's one thing the Corbynites and Blairites can agree on, it's surely that Tristram is an appallingly bad name for someone to have.
 
Thought this would have been bumped up already. I don't clearly understand how a three line whip works, but it seemed to me that Corbyn will whip his labour party vote in favor of triggering Article 50. Does Labour party now finally take a clear stand on Brexit and is this it?
 
fishfingers15 said:
Thought this would have been bumped up already. I don't clearly understand how a three line whip works, but it seemed to me that Corbyn will whip his labour party vote in favor of triggering Article 50. Does Labour party now finally take a clear stand on Brexit and is this it?
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What is his purpose?
66% of his party supporters voted to remain. The sooner, this guy is gotten rid off, the better.
 
Adisa said:
What is his purpose?
66% of his party supporters voted to remain. The sooner, this guy is gotten rid off, the better.
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Lot of liberals support Corbyn. Taking a stand to trigger article 50 won't go well with his supporters too, surely? I'm intrigued by his stance today. I've always felt that he didn't pull his full weight behind Remain votes.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Lot of liberals support Corbyn. Taking a stand to trigger article 50 won't go well with his supporters too, surely? I'm intrigued by his stance today. I've always felt that he didn't pull his full weight behind Remain votes.
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It's already happening.
 
As a member of the Green Party, he's doing wonders for us.

Energised the left and then ignored one of their primary concerns.
 
I'm looking forward to which heavyweight the PLP nominate as challenger this time. Owen Smith will be a tough act to follow.

My money is on Marvin the Immigration Mug, though I'm not sure the world is ready for a ceramic party leader.
 
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Dobba said:
I'm looking forward to which heavyweight the PLP nominate as challenger this time. Owen Smith will be a tough act to follow.
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Well, the challenge is not the primary concern right now is it? Corbyn supporters (or the Corbynistas) have been always insistent that Corbyn was behind the Remain movement. Lot of vocal support for Corbyn seemed to be from the young voters in the Remain camp. Won't they feel let down by this?
 
Dobba said:
I'm looking forward to which heavyweight the PLP nominate as challenger this time. Owen Smith will be a tough act to follow.
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Does it matter?

I haven't seen polling or whatever, but my general impression is that Corbyn's supporters last year don't support him now.

Doubt he'd get anywhere near the votes he got last year.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Well, the challenge is not the primary concern right now is it? Corbyn supporters (or the Corbynistas) have been always insistent that Corbyn was behind the Remain movement. Lot of vocal support for Corbyn seemed to be from the young voters in the Remain camp. Won't they feel let down by this?
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NinjaFletch said:
Does it matter?

I haven't seen polling or whatever, but my general impression is that Corbyn's supporters last year don't support him now.

Doubt he'd get anywhere near the votes he got last year.
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The whole political system is a circus and the country is fecked, enjoy the bits you can. It's going to be amusing watching the anti-Corbyn elements (i.e. the PLP) act like they're defending the wish of the people they spent most of the last 12 months calling trots and entryists.
 
Instead of muddling the issues, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind Corbyn and his clear line of thinking during Brexit. The guy seems a honourable man and maybe there is some method to this madness.
 
Dobba said:
The majority of constituencies, particularly those Labour held, voting to Leave is probably the biggest factor.
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That argument doesn't wash. The guy has never once in his life done something he didn't agree with for the sake of getting votes. That was half the reason he got elected.
 
Unmutual said:
That argument doesn't wash. The guy has never once in his life done something he didn't agree with for the sake of getting votes. That was half the reason he got elected.
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Well, that was the PLP's biggest argument for replacing him that they could find so again I'm just going to enjoy them complaining about him doing what they wanted him to do all along.

Article 50 is going to be triggered, whether it's with Corbyn as leader of the Labour party in it's current guise or with Angela Eagle after an snap election where MPs who personally wanted to remain but constituencies voted leave are shown the door and replaced by a Tory/Kipper. The Daily Mail/Sun 'Enemies of the People' slogan would be turned up to 11.
 
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