Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Corbyn's controversial opinions don't spill into every department. Bearing this in mind, Education or Health would represent two of the safer option for Jarvis IMO.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Corbyn's controversial opinions don't spill into every department. Bearing this in mind, Education or Health would represent two of the safer option for Jarvis IMO.
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I suppose shadow Brexit's (I still hate that word but have given up fighting it) a possibility too, he combines being on the very pro-EU side of the party with a constituency that has a large UKIP presence.
 
Are all of those academics in media and cultural studies?

I note they Helen Rogers of the notable academic institution "Sun FM".
 
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-labour-leadership-members-choose-shadow-team

Jeremy Corbyn is to propose a democratic revolution in the Labour party that would give its mass membership a role in both electing his top team and shaping party policy. With a comprehensive victory in the leadership contest next weekend looking increasingly likely, the Labour leader is now planning the next phase of a radical remaking of the party into a democratic social movement.

It is understood that Corbyn will suggest that members should be allowed to elect some shadow cabinet ministers, and have a direct say in policymaking through “digital consultations”.

In what will be presented as a conciliatory move to unify the party, one proposal is that a third of shadow cabinet posts are elected by the parliamentary party, another third by the leader and a final third by members. A source said: “These things are open to discussion”.

The winner of the leadership contest will be announced on Saturday at a special conference in Liverpool. A source close to Corbyn said: “I would be disappointed if we did not beat last year’s figure and get closer to 65% or even better.”

The idea of involving the membership in shadow cabinet elections is a rebuff to the deputy leader, Tom Watson, who is due to present a motion to Labour’s governing body, the NEC, on Tuesday in favour of bringing back the system under which MPs alone have a vote.

However, it is understood Watson recognises that the changes being suggested by the leader could represent “an exciting new era in British politics” under which for the first time frontbenchers would be delegates and not representatives of the membership. The changes, Watson believes, would ensure that Labour will look more like Syriza in Greece than the traditional party of the unions and deliver “a new era of digital democracy”, according to one source. “If proposed by Jeremy on Tuesday, he will consider them deeply,” the source said.

It is understood that some MPs also believe there is a case for the membership to be the sole electorate of the front-bench to ensure shadow cabinet ministers have an equal standing.

Corbyn said he wanted to “push forward democracy in our party at every level”. “Whoever wins the leadership election has the right to call on support from the Labour party at all levels, including in parliament,” he said. “If Labour party members re-elect me, that will be my second mandate in a year, from a hugely increased membership. It’s right that we’ll be discussing elections to the shadow cabinet at the national executive committee this week, as well as who might take part in those elections, and how to ensure proper representation of the regions, nations, gender and ethnicity. Democratisation of the party and the country is central to my agenda for change.”

A source close to the Labour leader said that they were not presenting the changes on a take-it-or-leave-it basis, but hoped to spur a discussion at the NEC early this week – a date dubbed by one campaigner as “Super Tuesday”.

A second source said: “The whole question is how to make the party more participatory. It is part of a wider agenda of democratising the party. Before the vote on whether to bomb Syria in November last year the party held a digital consultation of members. That is the kind of approach we can build on.”

At last Tuesday’s meeting of the shadow cabinet, several members, including the chief whip, Rosie Winterton, spoke in support of returning to a system, abolished by Ed Miliband, under which the parliamentary party elects most members of the shadow cabinet, with the rest being appointed by the leader. Winterton said she believed such a change would help restore unity between the leader and his MPs and would encourage many who had resigned in June to return to the fold.

However, a move instead to give the mass membership a role both in shadow cabinet elections and over policy will be seen by many elected members not as a peace offering but as a sign of Corbyn’s determination to marginalise his MPs and put power in the hands of ordinary members. While the question of whether to rejoin the frontbench should Corbyn win is a live one in the party – described by some as a choice of whether to “sulk or serve” – a move to give the membership a vote in shadow cabinet elections was dismissed as “unacceptable” by one of the shadow cabinet ministers who resigned in June, who added: “Two-thirds of the shadow cabinet would be his people – this isn’t a way to bring the party back together.”

A second serving shadow cabinet minister rejected the plan to allow the membership a say as a “recipe for chaos” for which there was no appetite outside the leader’s office.

A member of the NEC said that the plans would provoke a massive row on Tuesday: “It is about Jeremy’s determination to boost his power base.”
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Alan Johnson demands relentless rebellion against Jeremy Corbyn's leadership

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...johnson-demands-relentless-rebellion-against/
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I think its quite clear Johnson isnt interested in Labour winning either, too busy fighting his battle against the "hard-left".

They need to go off and start a new party or be respectful and stop harming the party. If they're confident Corbyn is going to be a failure why spend all their energy moaning on about it. Leave it a year at least ffs
 
Sweet Square said:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-labour-leadership-members-choose-shadow-team

A move to give the membership a vote in shadow cabinet elections was dismissed as “unacceptable” by one of the shadow cabinet ministers who resigned in June, who added: “Two-thirds of the shadow cabinet would be his people – this isn’t a way to bring the party back together.”
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:lol: Labour MPs in 2016: 'More party democracy for us? Of course! More party democracy for members? Unacceptable.'
 
Dobba said:
I think the 4th rebellion is pencilled in for finding the difference between arse and elbow and the 5th will see them find Lord Lucan riding Shergar on their way to Nessie and Bigfoot's wedding reception. So there is a chance.
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Tony Blair returns to destroy the Momentum Headquarters in the 6th and final one.
 
Ubik said:
The Blairite Lair-fight. Make it so.
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A reboot of Star Wars starring Owen Jones as Luke Skywalker, Corbyn as Obi-Wan Kenobi, Diane Abbott as Yoda, Gordon Brown as Vader and Tony Blair as the Emperor seems in order.
 
Cheesy said:
A reboot of Star Wars starring Owen Jones as Luke Skywalker, Corbyn as Obi-Wan Kenobi, Diane Abbott as Yoda, Gordon Brown as Vader and Tony Blair as the Emperor seems in order.
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If Vader is Owen Jones' father, then it should be Blair in that role. Or Lord Reid perhaps.

And to beat @Jippy to the punch, you realise that you've got Obi-wan eating out Yoda in the porn parody. :smirk:

McDonnell as C-3PO?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If Vader is Owen Jones' father, then it should be Blair in that role. Or Lord Reid perhaps.

And to beat @Jippy to the punch, you realise that you've got Obi-wan eating out Yoda in the porn parody. :smirk:

McDonnell as C-3PO?
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Nah, that's definitely Ed Miliband. David is R2. Keith Vaz or John Prescott can be Jabba the Hutt.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If Vader is Owen Jones' father, then it should be Blair in that role. Or Lord Reid perhaps.

And to beat @Jippy to the punch, you realise that you've got Obi-wan eating out Yoda in the porn parody. :smirk:

McDonnell as C-3PO?
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:lol:I'd defo watch that.
 
Sweet Square said:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-labour-leadership-members-choose-shadow-team
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Untied said:
:lol: Labour MPs in 2016: 'More party democracy for us? Of course! More party democracy for members? Unacceptable.'
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I can understand how the opposition looks on its face. Indeed, in principle I am actually interested in these sorts of moves. However, in practice I remain sceptical.

I would have to see the details, but for me, key questions would be:
- how to ensure that members actually engage with the process?
- how to avoid policies being shaped by a hardcore of the membership, whose views may be out of line not just with the electorate, but with the membership more broadly?
- would there be a minimum participation rate needed to shape policies (say 50%)?
- what are the long term plans to grow the membership? What is the strategy?
- do these plans simply apply to Labour in Opposition or also in Government (you would assume the former)
- which posts will be elected - presumably only junior ones
- how have the leadership conducted due diligence here? What are the political implications of this? What are the expected attack lines from other parties, and how do Labour plan to counter that?
- what happens if a policy is shaped by a small proportion of the membership (10% say) and the vast majority of MPs disagree?

I hope the plans are detailed in this regard.
 
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Frosty said:
- what happens if a policy is shaped by a small proportion of the membership (10% say) and the vast majority of MPs disagree?

I hope the plans are detailed in this regard.
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Based on evidence to date I'd say presumably a brick through the window and accusations of being part of a blair/zionist/Murdoch controlled conspiracy (with an added threat of rape if they are a woman)
If that does not shut them up then onto the deselection threats
 
No kind of split in who decides the shadow cabinet is going to work, if it's elected by the PLP it'll obviously just get populated by anti-Corbyn people and would be a farce, and if it's split between the membership, the leader and the PLP it'll just cement the factions in the party even further, with Corbyn inevitably using the "you're going against the wishes of the members" spiel continually.
 
The general idea behind it sounds like a good one, encouraging parents that might otherwise feel unable to be engaged politically to do so. As long as they don't make the kids sing songs about Blairites and whatnot.
 
Ubik said:
The general idea behind it sounds like a good one, encouraging parents that might otherwise feel unable to be engaged politically to do so. As long as they don't make the kids sing songs about Blairites and whatnot.
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They probably should have called it something else but creating a place for parents and carers who perhaps otherwise wouldn't be able to attend is a well intentioned idea.

Reaction of the media is a tad predictable
 
“I wasn’t in favour of there being a challenge,” says Smith quickly. “But once a challenge had been made then I felt I needed to stand because I felt that I had something to say about the future of the Labour party, and a lot of other people in the PLP [parliamentary Labour party] felt that about me, which is why they asked me to stand.”

So Smith would have preferred to see Corbyn allowed to carry on for longer?

“Yes, is the honest answer,” he says.
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You moron.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Jesus Christ, he's actually pathetic.
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I almost feel sorry for him but he must have known that he wasnt going to win, which means this was all about him. I wonder whether it was Save Labour or himself that came up with the "like Corbyn but not Corbyn" strategy.
 
A political wing with a programme aimed at relatively young children would strike me as a bit wrong whatever the partly involved. Even as a politically engaged teen it was years before felt comfortable with where i stood on issues.

Owen Smith comes across so poorly that part of e wonders if he's a plant. I could do a better job than him and i have next-to-no intention of voting Labour.
 
Smores said:
I almost feel sorry for him but he must have known that he wasnt going to win, which means this was all about him. I wonder whether it was Save Labour or himself that came up with the "like Corbyn but not Corbyn" strategy.
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The only legitimate reason I can think for him having run is to voice concerns about the Labour Party on behalf of the PLP.

sun_tzu said:
well lets see how momentum come out of the undercover channel 4 thingy tonight... I suspect badly and that actually teaching kids about politics is not something you would want them to do...
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I think that indoctrinating kids into politics always stinks.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
A political wing with a programme aimed at relatively young children would strike me as a bit wrong whatever the partly involved. Even as a politically engaged teenager it was years before felt comfortable with where i stood on issues.

Owen Smith comes across so poorly that party of e wonders if he's a plant. I could do a better job than him and i've never voted Labour.
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I've read a lot of people talking about "indoctrination" but I'm not sure what's different about it than anything else in a kid's life, if a parent's taking them to Momentum rallies they're probably going to be getting a fair amount of "indoctrination" at home anyway. In the unlikely event I ever deem myself ready to have kids, they will know all about the median voter...

As long it's not abusive of divisive stuff, pretty harmless really.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
A political wing with a programme aimed at relatively young children would strike me as a bit wrong whatever the partly involved. Even as a politically engaged teenager it was years before felt comfortable with where i stood on issues.

Owen Smith comes across so poorly that party of e wonders if he's a plant. I could do a better job than him and i've never voted Labour.
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Is there a political party in this country that doesn't have a youth wing or make a push for kids? Conservative Future, Liberal Youth, Young Labour, Young Greens etc...

Just seems another case of Corbyn getting criticised for something no one else does.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Is there a political party in this country that doesn't have a youth wing or make a push for kids? Conservative Future, Liberal Youth, Young Labour, Young Greens etc...

Just seems another case of Corbyn getting criticised for something no one else does.
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if young labour exists then why do momentum want their own youth movement - unless its to do something different to the labour party?
 
sun_tzu said:
if young labour exists then why do momentum want their own youth movement - unless its to do something different to the labour party?
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Well if you take the word 'youth' out you could ask the same thing about Momentum full stop. But then you also have to ask the same question for Progress and so on and so forth.
 
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