Id say its quite accurate but at the same time if you asked people to pick policies instead it would be a different outlook completely. I think thats quite well substantiated at this point.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Id say its quite accurate but at the same time if you asked people to pick policies instead it would be a different outlook completely. I think thats quite well substantiated at this point.
My argument is that the British public have no idea what the center ground is. Examples
.What has Farage ever done to show he's anywhere near the centre right, let alone the 'center')
.What has Khan done to say people he's a on the left or centre left, he's hasn't done anything of note yet. Well part from going back on his train policy.
The British public recent voting record
Brexit - the biggest political vote for decades, only a few months ago and the majority(Well Wales and England)vote for a campaign that was run on the Far Right and actually used the nazi propaganda.
If someone voted for Leave and thinks she/he in the centre then they need to get their political compass checked.
Disagree, Brexit, UKIP and the constant voting in of Tory governments.
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What happened to Blair being centre left?
Momentum... it appears he has been rebranded more of a centre right / male thatcher / evil warmonger
And of course those of us that thought we were centrist / left of centre are now red Tories apparently
I don't think a very large proportion of the electorate actually know where they stand on the spectrum... you'd have to ask them about individual policies to get a reasonable idea of where they are. Asking them where they think they are is a bit pointless and unsurprising that most would say 'centre'.
5% of people in that very same survey you quote said Corbyn was right wing and 7% said Farage was on the left.
Yeah this point I was also trying to make.
I must have missed those memos, especially the evil warmonger one. Was it buried in the middle of the Chilcot report?
I find the whole "centre" thing daft. Obviously it's a case of leaning left on some issues and right on others but in reality there is no actual centre because one centrist might lean left on a certain issue and another right on the same issue so it's almost a pseudo alignment.
No its the official moment policy isn't it "let's throw away any opportunity for a left of centre government that can actually introduce things like minimum wage and ran credits and concentrate on shouting in our echo chamber"
It's all about perception, and I think you make a fair point in that regard.
Khan's done nothing yet, but he was elected in as the new kind of progressive but still sensible London mayor and as a result people perceive as being somewhere centre-left on the spectrum. His actual policies might align around there but he's not had any of note yet and I doubt many people would read them anyway.
Never mind centrists, Tony Benn will be spinning in his grave.
Ah I see. So if we ignore things like PFI contracts that are crippling the NHS and Iraq, or their recent willingness to appease the Murdoch rags and "look tough on scroungers", New Labour suddenly seem very electable again*. It's a bold strategy Cotton...
*apart from those last two elections where it wasn't
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You get a ~5% moron factor with every poll you make, the point is to look at the weight of the data. How many believe Theresa May is in a relatively central position? 40%+. How many people think Jeremy Corbyn is in a relatively central position? 20%. Even if you don't think self-identification means anything of itself (and it's a fairly common thing to look at in political science research), that's a pretty clear sign that people see themselves as closer to May than Corbyn.
You can say the exact same things for "right" and "left", they're all shorthand for coalitions of different groups with different ideas.
And half of Corbyn's office (dare I say Corbyn himself).
Agree.
It seems at best a mix match of ideas with the sole intention of getting into power. Which to it's credit it worked in the early 90's and 2000's but after such things as Iraq war and the crash in 08 it's was never going to last.
I image Benn would have done the same as Corbyn and voted remain, it one of thing being against the EU in the 70's and being against it now. But we'll never know.
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Oh yeah that I'm not trying to make the case against Khan(Although I'm not a fan)is more that how anyone can says he's any of these's things when he's only just being in office.
Pretty sure a man who just last year said he didn't know which way he'll vote is going to be describing anyone who voted to leave as hardcore righties. He went through the lobby with anti-EU types enough himself.
Might achieve more than saying you wouldn't shoot to kill terrorists on a rampage or let's spend loads on subs then not put nukes on them?
Of all the things you could have picked it's these two? With Owen's ISIS and the best way to get rid of nukes is to spend billions on new ones comments.
I haven't describe people who voted Leave as hardcore righties, I said they weren't politically in the centre. Which I think is fair.
Anyway back to Corbyn, this is going to be pointless if you actual believe he voted out, He said he voted Remain we have to take his word for it(Christ you like Blair, taking politicians at face value should be easy for you).
Also you can see why The Labour Party is in such a mess, one half doesn't believe the leader of the party through spite than anything else and the other side keeps bringing up the Iraq War.
Never said he voted leave (I don't care either way, he just didn't campaign very well), I said he'd disagree with your appraisal of their voters. Given you mentioned it was a campaign of the far right using nazi propaganda, it seemed you were making a link.
I'd say they're both utterly ridiculous comments. But then I'm not the one who raised it as an issue worth picking the other guy over.
My point was that the Leave voters weren't in the centre, I was trying to use Briexit as example against the poll you posted although my bad if I hadn't it that clear.
As for the Nazi propaganda stuff that's just true - http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants.
On the EU issue I think it's fair to say that Corbyn didn't really do all that well in his own campaigning, but I don't see anything wrong with him having a divided/changing opinion on the matter.
As someone who flirted with the idea of Leave before becoming an ardent Remainer, I'd argue it's much easier to relate to someone who's got a fairly nuanced view of an issue and is unsure on it, like Corbyn has been. I find that more believable than party figures who are staunchly for Remain to the point where they'd be unable to see any flaws in the EU.
Again, that's probably not all that helpful in actual politics because people aren't going to be convinced by your opinion if you're only half-convinced by it yourself, but at the same time Corbyn being divided on the EU is completely reasonable. A number of Labour voters were going to vote Leave either and having someone like Owen Smith patronise them by saying he'd tackle immigration whilst not planning to do anything about it in actuality wouldn't have changed their eventual vote at all.
As someone who flirted with the idea of Leave before becoming an ardent Remainer, I'd argue it's much easier to relate to someone who's got a fairly nuanced view of an issue and is unsure on it, like Corbyn has been. I find that more believable than party figures who are staunchly for Remain to the point where they'd be unable to see any flaws in the EU.
Again, that's probably not all that helpful in actual politics because people aren't going to be convinced by your opinion if you're only half-convinced by it yourself, but at the same time Corbyn being divided on the EU is completely reasonable. A number of Labour voters were going to vote Leave either and having someone like Owen Smith patronise them by saying he'd tackle immigration whilst not planning to do anything about it in actuality wouldn't have changed their eventual vote at all.
A bit late but re: Ken Livingstone on TV - was this regarding his interview with Sky?
Because if so I watched that live at work, he was discussing Keith Vaz and it was Kay Burley who couldn't help herself and asked Ken about the Hitler comments, not Ken bringing it up unprovoked.
Because if so I watched that live at work, he was discussing Keith Vaz and it was Kay Burley who couldn't help herself and asked Ken about the Hitler comments, not Ken bringing it up unprovoked.
So, looks like Corbyn is losing his seat on the boundary review. Him, Thornberry and Abbott could be competing for two seats.
I read that Umunna will be okay because of the 40% rule - there's no incumbent near him contesting the new seat. Mind you, there could just be a hell of a lot of incorrect leaks too.
Ah cheers.
I'm sure momentum will have a crack at deselecting him... or at least chucking the odd brick through his windows
Some of the suspensions are beyond a joke. Atlees great nephew has seemingly been suspended because he shared a post aimed at the tories which was a quote about chipping away at freedoms with a pic of hitler in the background.
Sure it has nothing to do with the fact he publically declared his support for Corbyn
Sure it has nothing to do with the fact he publically declared his support for Corbyn
Not sure a suspension of 3,000 members would be particularly effective in purge terms.
conference is going to be horrific isn't it - factions, tribalism, booing, name calling etc and of course the rumblings of deselection, purges and splits...
And given the short lead time for the security contractor I wouldn't be surprised to see a few organisation blunders thrown in just for good measure.
And given the short lead time for the security contractor I wouldn't be surprised to see a few organisation blunders thrown in just for good measure.
I don't think so, whoever wins im sure everyone will get behind the elected leader and serve thier party and its members. Why wouldn't they?
As Angela Eagle said they brought this up as they didnt think Corbyn had the backing of members anymore so they'll either be right or wrong and correct their behaviour appropriately
I think we both know well enough that isn't going to happen - nor should it in my opinion - if the MP's represent their constituents and they have said they have no faith in Corbyn's ability to run an effective opposition (let alone a government) then the decent thing to do is to resign the party whip - though they will have to be quick as momentum will be racing to deselect them anyway
Out of interest, are either of you going to conference?
I think that after the election, opponents of Corbyn will lay low and keep their mouth shut. There may well be opposition to any internal changes, especially if deselection is pursued, but if Corbyn et al stick with policies and opposing the government, most critics will go quiet (I make no predictions about Reed or Danczuk...)
I'm in Dortmund that week so not for me... I had been to some in the past - but more of a work thing than personal interest
As for uniting behind corbyn as leader I think a split is far more likely (be that formal or informal).
This stuff isn't helpful - good to see Ashworth's response:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...b07ac3d446bb02#block-57d7ba1de4b07ac3d446bb02
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...b07ac3d446bb02#block-57d7ba1de4b07ac3d446bb02
I'm also really concerned by Labour's approach to the boundary reforms. Take this from Corbyn this morning:
They need to oppose the reduction completely.
Here are a couple of blogs explaining why:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ould-rebel-against-boundary-changes-heres-why
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/why-boundary-changes-matter
The factions in Labour cannot use this as an opportunity to remove opponents.
They need to oppose the reduction completely.
Here are a couple of blogs explaining why:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...ould-rebel-against-boundary-changes-heres-why
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/why-boundary-changes-matter
The factions in Labour cannot use this as an opportunity to remove opponents.
Yup, complaining about semantics isn't going to help then the reforms are more or less designed specifically to hurt Labour.
Here's a projection of last year's GE on the proposed boundaries:
One interesting thing locally is that Lucas' seat in Brighton might become a very tight three-way marginal, though I'd still expect her to win that.
The party's current director of strategy is known for his fondness for Stalin, so you may have to prepare for disappointment here.