Not to be rude but just read some articles and books. Because honesty what your saying is stupidly shite.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Typical Corbynista response. No actual take down, its just wrong.
You wanna tell me how he's being smeared with his utterly stupid plans of bringing manufacturing back to the UK? The obsession with a sector we've long since pretty much lost. That it's not a throwback to the 70's from someone who never moved on? He's just another regressive with the view that manufacturing = good honest work, services = bad. Christ the man wants to bring coal back. The sooner people like him move on from this ancient view and start looking at what the UK is now, the better.
Principled but dim. That's a nice epitaph for Corbyn.
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To give the benefit of the doubt, other people have said 'read a book' before in argument. So, you know.
"neoliberalism"
"echo chamber"
"smear"
The list grows almost by the hour. This is all they have.
Blair an Iraq 2: Electric Boogaloo
Of course, Blair. How could we forget him? Still absolutely central to everything, apparently.
"Read a book"
"Neoliberalism"
"Echo chamber"
"Blair"
"Iraq"
I feel we should make some kind of informal list. I do enjoy the part where we also have to pretend to be staggered that this government is maintaining a healthy, enviable given the circumstances, position in opinion polling. The left have nothing. The Corbyn left that is. If it wasn't for the fact this is the worst time to have vacant idiots at the wheel of the opposition, you'd almost feel sorry for them.
"Neoliberalism"
"Echo chamber"
"Blair"
"Iraq"
I feel we should make some kind of informal list. I do enjoy the part where we also have to pretend to be staggered that this government is maintaining a healthy, enviable given the circumstances, position in opinion polling. The left have nothing. The Corbyn left that is. If it wasn't for the fact this is the worst time to have vacant idiots at the wheel of the opposition, you'd almost feel sorry for them.
Um...okay.
You've posted a link to the search results for the term 'Blair' in this thread. Which is supposed to be a response to something, I'm presuming?
I know I said the list was growing fast but if I'm already going to add 'understanding how making a point works' then even I think it's taking the piss a bit.
you're the only who keeps mentioning blair, the rest of us don't give a solitary feck, stop mentioning him if you're so sick of hearing about him, the rest of us certainly are
You've just posted a link showing that you've mentioned him four times in this thread since Friday.
It's adorable isn't it?
1: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-282#post-22963854
oh there's a shock, i was making fun of another stupid oscie posts
2: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-280#post-22959048
oh look who brought him up, again
3: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-277#post-22957287
ok i'll give you that one
4: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-263#post-22885810
a few Fridays ago but look who brought him up again
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Definitely not an unhinged cult.
oh man wait until he finds out about suicide pact
I already know about the last election.
Labour Alternative models of ownership
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Alternative-Models-of-Ownership.pdf
Technology and Post Capitalism
The ‘Preston Model’ and the modern politics of municipal socialism
https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/preston-model-modern-politics-municipal-socialism/
Labour set to include pilot of radical basic income policy in next manifesto, John McDonnell says
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-corbyn-poverty-social-benefits-a8471616.html
But yeah the 70's or whatever.
I'm not sure a forum (a place where people can look up old posts) is really for you to be honest.
Your anger at Corbyn and his supporters is quite extraordinary.
Honestly, most of the Momentum supporters I know follow a similar pattern. They have baby boomer generation parents who are starting to need the NHS so have become aware of the strain on it. They have kids stuck in underfunded state schools and commute to jobs on a very cynically run privatised rail network. Add to this that they’re a generation that can’t afford to get on the housing market.
In all your ire, the thing you never mention is that Corbyn’s supporters were first brought together by their desire to seek an end to austerity and support a politician who wants to rebalance the wealth distribution in the U.K.
To me, they all seem like perfectly ordinary things to want to address through politics. But sure, carry on hurling bile and insults at people.
Another new idea is the proposed changes in quantitive easing, going from money given to commercial banks as happens now, to a national investment bank that doesn't give billions of pounds to wankers in the city of london.
His supporters were first brought together to 'win back' the Labour party. They didn't, and don't, give a toss about anything beyond that. Hence losing general elections is now something the Labour party celebrates. It's why Tory Brexit is something the Labour party do not wish to oppose. You talk about redistribution of wealth yet are perfectly fine with the policies of Brexit that he shares with the hardline Tory right, that will make this country significantly poorer than before. There isn't any joined-up thinking. You like the idea of Corbyn, but like others in the same position you're not willing to deal with the realities of Corbyn.
What matters to those of us who oppose him is that we see him as the biggest asset the Tory party could wish for and therefore see him as an unwitting enabler of all those things you listed above. Do we really think an opposition with its act together would have allowed this govt to get away with 5% of the shite it gets away with?
But even on that we're not even allowed to attribute the performance of the opposition to the leader of the opposition, are we? It's all someone else's fault, isn't it? Like Brexit, the fault lies not with the people in charge of the fecking disaster, it lies with people who have spend 2/3 years pointing out what an absolute fecking disaster it is.
You really need to sort out your unbelievably grating habit of presenting crap as fact.
Corbyn won the leadership election simply because he opposed austerity and this fired the imagination of Labour members. Earlier in the thread you declared that Corbyn supporters were united through a need to moan about his enemies. That’s wrong, as they were united by his alternative to austerity.
It’s also completely wrong to say Corbyn supporters celebrated a general election loss. You know this, so don’t waste time lying. Knives were sharpened on the basis that everyone expected Labour to suffer a landslide defeat and well intentioned supporters were fired up that he confounded wide spread predictions.
What are the ‘realities of Corbyn I’m unwilling to deal with’ please?
And who is the alternative leader that you suppose would have got Labour a better result in the last election?
What alternative to austerity? Even at the last election he stood on a platform that pledged at best only a moderate increase on the "austerity" level spending of the government. And one of the biggest realities of Corbyn you're unwilling to deal with is that his policy on Brexit is pretty much exactly the same as Jacob Rees-Mogg. Hence why the last thing any Corbyn supporter in this thread wishes to address, is Brexit.
Then there's also the terrible polling, the being marred in antisemitism, highly questionable past statements of support and solidarity with terrorists - some of whom murdered British citizens deliberately - the fact that his supporter base echo Trump's ("Conspiracy", "Smear", "Biased media","Witch-hunt") and the fact Labour are now completely irrelevant. Aside from the antisemtiism debacle, when was the last time there was a keynote speech, policy announcement, setting or slight influencing of the agenda or any point in the last 4 months when the Labour party have nailed this government's balls to the floor on anything?
But sure, the problem isn't that this is the least effective opposition anyone can remember in 30 years, the problem is with people who have the gall to notice that this is the least effective opposition anyone can remember in 30 years. You see schools crumble, the NHS on its knees and a government that is getting away with everything and an opposition either unwilling or incapable of doing anything about it which you support and you make yourself feel better by pretending it's not you who is part of the problem, it's the others.
totally, that's why labour voted in favour of the ERG amendments and the lib dems turned up to the crucial votes and brought down the government
Rees-Mogg wants to leave the EU, single market, and customs union.
Corbyn wants to leave the EU, single market and customs union.
I'm guessing this is the point where we pretend this represents a difference of position. Noticing reality is now a thing no longer permitted.
Corbyn wants to leave the EU, single market and customs union.
I'm guessing this is the point where we pretend this represents a difference of position. Noticing reality is now a thing no longer permitted.
Nope.
Very happy to talk Brexit but I think there’s a long way to go. Momentum have come out in favour of a second referendum so it will be interesting to see how Labour policy eventually manifests itself.
Out of interest, do you know who was actually the official figurehead for Labour’s remain campaign?
Also still waiting for your suggestion of a leader who would have polled better in the last GE?
Ah I forgot that rather big one.
Theres a critique to be had at the labours policy and how they will try to implement both from the left & right which could be a interesting discussion but people just repeating headlines they've seen in a newspaper is well a bit rubbish.
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May got more votes than Corbyn. Polled a higher share than Corbyn. In the current polls she's ahead of Corbyn in 'best leader'.
If they think Corbyn is doing well, they must think she's doing absolutely brilliantly. Or is that another one of those facts we have to pretend we don't know and should instead chastise ourselves by repeating "he's a man of peace" and pretending not to notice Corbyn is doing everything he can to enable a Tory Brexit?
If they think Corbyn is doing well, they must think she's doing absolutely brilliantly. Or is that another one of those facts we have to pretend we don't know and should instead chastise ourselves by repeating "he's a man of peace" and pretending not to notice Corbyn is doing everything he can to enable a Tory Brexit?
You still haven't said who you reckon would've done better than him.
What's the point? No matter who I'd name the response will be the same. It isn't a genuine question at all it's just waiting me to say someone then whoever I say it'll be dismissed.
That's so we don't end up talking about why a Tory leader who ran arguably the worst campaign any political leader of the two main parties has ever ran in modern British electoral history, still won.
The usual cabal of apologists for Corbyn that turn up to stifle and repress any kind of discussion on here have now turned up. You, Silva, Dobba, Nuts, Sweet Square. Occasionally when a normal outsider tends to dip their toe in the thread they're scared off pretty soon after.
You have no idea how to argue, other than to resort to the dismissive and the personal.
YOU made it all about Corbyn so grow a pair and tell us who’d have polled more. Otherwise you’re a blowhard on an angry rant against an individual without offering solutions.
Any progress on working out who the figurehead for Labour’s remain campaign was?
That's were we are. We're not to talk about what Corbyn's said, who he's associated with how he polls, what his performance is as leader or why he's shoulder-to-shoulder with May on Brexit.
Instead we have to ask Oscie who he thinks would have polled better than him at the last election, and then whoever he says say:
"
, [/NAME]"
Because that distracts from the fact Labour finished 2nd to a government in turmoil having the worst campaign any of the two major parties have likely ever had at an election. And thats the most important thing.
Instead we have to ask Oscie who he thinks would have polled better than him at the last election, and then whoever he says say:
"
, [/NAME]"Because that distracts from the fact Labour finished 2nd to a government in turmoil having the worst campaign any of the two major parties have likely ever had at an election. And thats the most important thing.
How pathetic. It’s absolutely fecking crucial - if you can’t name someone who’d have done better then it’s YOU who’s keeping the Tories in by refusing to back the leader who had the best chance to beat them.That's were we are. We're not to talk about what Corbyn's said, who he's associated with how he polls, what his performance is as leader or why he's shoulder-to-shoulder with May on Brexit.
Instead we have to ask Oscie who he thinks would have polled better than him at the last election, and then whoever he says say:
"
Because that distracts from the fact Labour finished 2nd to a government in turmoil having the worst campaign any of the two major parties have likely ever had at an election. And thats the most important thing.
How can anyone take your endless complaints seriously if you have no alternative?!
I have plenty of alternatives but the question wasn't asked in order to find out who they were, it was asked so you could fire back with your prepared comeback that I suspect would have been in line with what I outlined in my last post. You're just annoyed I didn't give you the chance to play the game.
And the chair of Labour’s Remain campaign was arch Corbyn-basher Alan Johnson. He’s played an absolute blinder in getting us to all forget that.
anything short of a European federalist reincarnation of Karl Marx is too mild for Oscie
Oh feck off - I've asked you a basic question here and you aren't answering. I've told you time and time again I don't vote Corbyn and have plenty of criticisms of him.
I think one of the reasons why so few people aside from the Corbyn apologists, and myself, ever post in this thread is that there seems absolutely no point.
Terrible opposition leader performing awfully against the worst government in living memory and yet this thread is pretty much wall-to-wall defending of him.
Terrible opposition leader performing awfully against the worst government in living memory and yet this thread is pretty much wall-to-wall defending of him.
Rubbish. Stop playing the victim card - the anti-Corbyn argument was probably the predominant voice in this thread until a couple of pages back. Your argument ends if you’re completely unable to suggest an alternative.
typical corbyn apologist, stop drinking the cool aid you cultist bastard