Jarrad Branthwaite

Teja said:
That's basically capitulating to Everton demands. They said 70M and we're offering 65M.
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It depends on the add ons.

I think £55m + £10m is really pushing it from our perspective in terms of value but if the add ons were based on winning silverware and him being a part of that would anyone care?
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It depends on the add ons.

I think £55m + £10m is really pushing it from our perspective in terms of value but if the add ons were based on winning silverware and him being a part of that would anyone care?
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Makes perfect sense really but I can see why Everton are not caving in. Due to mismanagement or ineptitude or perhaps a combination of both we have shown ourselves to be not the best negotiators. I think Everton will continue to stick to their price and we will have to lick our wounds and really focus on improving our reputation. I think players always cost more when you as an interested club are playing catch up, I think the club and the new footballing department have a lot of work to do. Would love for what you are saying to be true though, a base offer of 55m with 10-15 min in incentivized and trophy based add ons would be a good compromise but I think Everton are treating this one as a Wesley Fofana/Harry Maguire type of situation.
 
Redstain said:
Reckon around 60 with 5 addons is what Everton likely consider and 55 with 10 what the club will offer.
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That's steeper than every other CB on the market this summer, even those with much more experience and accolades.

Would steer clear unless we strike out on every one of our other options
 
fanutd said:
Makes perfect sense really but I can see why Everton are not caving in. Due to mismanagement or ineptitude or perhaps a combination of both we have shown ourselves to be not the best negotiators. I think Everton will continue to stick to their price and we will have to lick our wounds and really focus on improving our reputation. I think players always cost more when you as an interested club are playing catch up, I think the club and the new footballing department have a lot of work to do. Would love for what you are saying to be true though, a base offer of 55m with 10-15 min in incentivized and trophy based add ons would be a good compromise but I think Everton are treating this one as a Wesley Fofana/Harry Maguire type of situation.
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If they are looking for ~£70m guaranteed or above then we should move on. I said before in this thread that kind of fee should be reserved for the complete package type defender. Someone with all the physical, technical and age profiles all aligned with your ideal.

Branthwaite is on current ability probably not worth more than £40m but the potential and unique build of him makes him a rare commodity to be a starter in the PL at 21 years old is unusual for a CB. My other worry with him is he’s used to playing in a completely different system in the PL where he is very rarely receiving from the GK in build up.

I agree clubs know we are rebuilding and that we have a preference towards English core too, so I can see why Everton feel more confident in pushing us that extra step. That combined with the Onana fee from Villa I think has weakened our position.
Rolaholic said:
That's steeper than every other CB on the market this summer, even those with much more experience and accolades.

Would steer clear unless we strike out on every one of our other options
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Yes, but it’s also hard to compare due to relative situations of players. Theres no other English CB available that’s as young with PL experience for example so it depends on what the club sees as important. He’s also uniquely large and quick compared to De Ligt for example so it really comes down to the profiles we feel we need most.
 
RDCR07 said:
How exactly is that a fair price?
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We’ve had a €60m bid accepted for Yoro who 80% of us haven’t watched but we are happy with. We are all then assuming a highly rated “English” player with more minutes under his belt and also relatively young should be sold to us for less than £50m.

Let’s all get serious. It was a nice try with our first pathetic bid. Our second was reasonable, but with Everton not needing to sell I don’t see what’s unfair with £60m. That can be made up with add ons etc but it’s fair. Less than Maguire and more than Stones which considering inflation is around the same value.
 
We should offer them a final 50M+5M bid. That's more than what we paid for Martinez. That's a fair and realistic bid. Take it or leave it. Anything more is overpaying.
 
We know we aren't getting everything done at once so, if we really want him, I think this is one to revisit next summer. Everton have strengthened an already firm stance. Bidding £50m plus add-ons (or whatever) isn't gonna wash with them.

devilish said:
I bet it would be easier for Manchester United to divert our wantaway talent away from Everton and to a rival club if we want to.
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I think Everton are probably done with their phase of picking up our cast-offs. I know Garner was fairly recent, but letting him go for that fee was entirely our mistake.
 
didz said:
We know we aren't getting everything done at once so, if we really want him, I think this is one to revisit next summer. Everton have strengthened an already firm stance. Bidding £50m plus add-ons (or whatever) isn't gonna wash with them.


I think Everton are probably done with their phase of picking up our cast-offs. I know Garner was fairly recent, but letting him go for that fee was entirely our mistake.
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I don't think that anyone should be 'done' in picking up cast offs. I mean I can easily build a cast off squad that would have a shot to the EPL title. It would include the likes of VDS in goal, the likes of Vieira and Pirlo in midfield and Baggio, Bergkamp and Henry up front. This year United are interested into two players who are essentially deemed as surplus to requirements by their respective clubs (ie De Ligt and Ugarte). If signed then they'll probably push others out such as Lindelof, McT and Maguire all of whom would be a nice addition to most mid table EPL teams.

The biggest stumbling block is the salary of course. Maguire is on 190k a week which would easily make him high earner at most of those clubs. However we all know that United are ratifying all that. Not to forget that the club is focusing once more on the youth academy with the U18s winning a treble of trophies. Most of those kids won't make it at United but could easily be picked upon by a friendly club on the cheap
 
devilish said:
I don't think that anyone should be 'done' in picking up cast offs. I mean I can easily build a cast off squad that would have a shot to the EPL title. It would include the likes of VDS in goal, the likes of Vieira and Pirlo in midfield and Baggio, Bergkamp and Henry up front. This year United are interested into two players who are essentially deemed as surplus to requirements by their respective clubs (ie De Ligt and Ugarte). If signed then they'll probably push others out such as Lindelof, McT and Maguire all of whom would be a nice addition to most mid table EPL teams.

The biggest stumbling block is the salary of course. Maguire is on 190k a week which would easily make him high earner at most of those clubs. However we all know that United are ratifying all that. Not to forget that the club is focusing once more on the youth academy with the U18s winning a treble of trophies. Most of those kids won't make it at United but could easily be picked upon by a friendly club on the cheap
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That's lovely, but it has nothing to do with Everton's transfer policy.
 
Lash said:
Not if you read the article, it's pure opinion. They're basing it on the fact we haven't already completed the De Ligt deal already, as they perceive it as a straight forward deal.
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I actually saw an article yesterday saying the hold up with de Ligt was between him and Bayern over a loyalty payment or the like. I’ll see if I can find it.
 
Wezzaldo said:
I actually saw an article yesterday saying the hold up with de Ligt was between him and Bayern over a loyalty payment or the like. I’ll see if I can find it.
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Be interesting if true, do you remember who the article was by?
 
Wezzaldo said:
I actually saw an article yesterday saying the hold up with de Ligt was between him and Bayern over a loyalty payment or the like. I’ll see if I can find it.
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Are you sure you aren't flashing back to the great De Jong saga of 2022?
 
Since Branthwaite can also play LB i think United still wants him.

Branthwaite - Martinez - Yoro/De Ligt - Dalot

Dalot can go forward during playing phases and Branthwaite move up for corners and freekicks!
 
Von Mistelroum said:
Noooooooooooo
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If our 2 first transfers are Zirkzee and Yoro (which is incredible) - maybe people should give the people in charge a bit more benefit of the doubt. If they make 3 offers for Branthwaite - clearly they want him and believe he is a quality defender
 
didz said:
That's lovely, but it has nothing to do with Everton's transfer policy.
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It was a polite way to tell you that you're speaking bollocks. We sold them an English international who ended up becoming their captain for peanuts. We also sold them a very solid GK for peanuts as well and an excellent midfielder in Garner for just 15m. Who would want to phase that out?
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
We’ve had a €60m bid accepted for Yoro who 80% of us haven’t watched but we are happy with. We are all then assuming a highly rated “English” player with more minutes under his belt and also relatively young should be sold to us for less than £50m.

Let’s all get serious. It was a nice try with our first pathetic bid. Our second was reasonable, but with Everton not needing to sell I don’t see what’s unfair with £60m. That can be made up with add ons etc but it’s fair. Less than Maguire and more than Stones which considering inflation is around the same value.
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You've done the media trick of quoting some in Euro's, some in pounds, in order to make a point of making one sound higher and the other lower.

We've had an initial £42m bid accepted for Yoro - a youngster also wanted by Real Madrid and Liverpool, reportedly. And it could go up to £52m with add ons. And we've had a similar / lower bid accepted for De Ligt. And the reason is because that's about the current market for a defender of those levels. Anything approaching what Everton are asking would be for the most elite and established top defenders in the game.

Branthwaite isn't in the latter group at all yet. He's in the same tier as Yoro and De Ligt. The only reason for the extra sum is the PL / English player / United Tax all being applied. Not because, ability wise, he's any better. And we shouldn't be making those mistakes again, now that we're eager to establish ourselves as better negotiators.

If we can get the price down to a more appropriate one to the current market, then great. But I really hope we don't give in and pay close to Everton's exaggerated asking price.
 
Bertie Wooster said:
You've done the media trick of quoting some in Euro's, some in pounds, in order to make a point of making one sound higher and the other lower.

We've had an initial £42m bid accepted for Yoro - a youngster also wanted by Real Madrid and Liverpool, reportedly. And it could go up to £52m with add ons. And we've had a similar / lower bid accepted for De Ligt. And the reason is because that's about the current market for a defender of those levels. Anything approaching what Everton are asking would be for the most elite and established top defenders in the game.

Branthwaite isn't in the latter group at all yet. He's in the same tier as Yoro and De Ligt. The only reason for the extra sum is the PL / English player / United Tax all being applied. Not because, ability wise, he's any better. And we shouldn't be making those mistakes again, now that we're eager to establish ourselves as better negotiators.

If we can get the price down to a more appropriate one to the current market, then great. But I really hope we don't give in and pay close to Everton's exaggerated asking price.
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Regardless my point stands.

Yoro has less experience and has 1 year left on his contract.

De ligt they want £42m and bear in mind they want this value because he’s on £250k a week. It’s the exact same predicament we were in last year with Harry Maguire. It’s hard to drive a market value price when you want rid of a player and they are on wages no other club can afford. It’s also why Sancho will probably stay.

As for Branthwaite neither of these things stand. He’s got 2/3 years left, he’s not on big wages. The only thing we had going for us was PSR and now that is not a thing. His market value is £50-60m and I also think that’s how the club see’s it which is why we will probably bid again.

What I don’t agree with is Everton’s stance and reference to players who have flopped at higher price tags and in Gvardiol who was way more experienced and rated.
 
devilish said:
It was a polite way to tell you that you're speaking bollocks. We sold them an English international who ended up becoming their captain for peanuts. We also sold them a very solid GK for peanuts as well and an excellent midfielder in Garner for just 15m. Who would want to phase that out?
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King of the random tangent telling me I'm speaking bollocks? That's interesting.

I accounted for Garner - a mistake on our part. You're then going back 20 years for Phil Neville as an example. You could take your head out of your arse for a brief moment and have a look at the players Everton are targeting to see that they won't be looking for cut price deals for the players we don't want.

Or you could take a moment to realise how much "bollocks" you're speaking in asserting that Everton should knock a couple of tens of million quid off Branthwaite's price on the off chance we give them a good deal on the next Phil Neville in twenty years time.

I suspect you'll do neither.
 
Uncle Mainoo said:
Regardless my point stands.

Yoro has less experience and has 1 year left on his contract.

De ligt they want £42m and bear in mind they want this value because he’s on £250k a week. It’s the exact same predicament we were in last year with Harry Maguire. It’s hard to drive a market value price when you want rid of a player and they are on wages no other club can afford. It’s also why Sancho will probably stay.

As for Branthwaite neither of these things stand. He’s got 2/3 years left, he’s not on big wages. The only thing we had going for us was PSR and now that is not a thing. His market value is £50-60m and I also think that’s how the club see’s it which is why we will probably bid again.

What I don’t agree with is Everton’s stance and reference to players who have flopped at higher price tags and in Gvardiol who was way more experienced and rated.
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Fair points.

I do agree his market value is £50-60m pounds - add ons already included in that figure. And that's close to what we've already offered (wasn't it £45m+5?) So we should be getting close now - instead it's being seen that it was an insulting bid and nowhere near Everton's value. Which I don't get, as we're already at £50m and shouldn't really be going too much higher with subsequent bids.

Your point about high wages maybe bringing down the transfer fee in order to sell them (De Ligt) is valid. Though, on the flip side, as you say Branthwaite isn't on high wages at all and as others have posted it'll be interesting to see how much he asks for should he stay given Everton supposedly see him as a £70m+ player. A player of that supposed ability / importance to a club should be on higher wages than they're currently paying him.
 
didz said:
King of the random tangent telling me I'm speaking bollocks? That's interesting.

I accounted for Garner - a mistake on our part. You're then going back 20 years for Phil Neville as an example. You could take your head out of your arse for a brief moment and have a look at the players Everton are targeting to see that they won't be looking for cut price deals for the players we don't want.

Or you could take a moment to realise how much "bollocks" you're speaking in asserting that Everton should knock a couple of tens of million quid off Branthwaite's price on the off chance we give them a good deal on the next Phil Neville in twenty years time.

I suspect you'll do neither.
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Phil was in 2005, Howard was in 2007 and then there was Garner in 2020. There was also other players who should have succeeded but they didn't. Morgan Schneiderlin for example was an EPL proven player whom everyone wanted back then at United. It didn't work out at United and it didn't work out at Everton. Van De Beek was one of the most promising no 10 in the world at the time. Again god knows what went wrong with the guy. Both deals went on very profitable terms, both should have worked for Everton in the same lines that Phil, Howard and Garned did and most people are still baffled on why it didn't.

Sure United had become less attractive for the likes of Everton mainly because we abandoned any concept of wage structure which made our cast offs prohibitive + we disregarded the academy. However these two are being sorted at the time of writing. The u18s had won three trophies while INEOS are bringing some sanity back salary wise. Zirkzee's salary is said to be on 56k a week so assuming that he does end up for sale then he falls right into Everton's territory. Irrespective of that why on earth would Everton phase out signing our cast offs if the price and the talent is right?

For the rest relationships in football do exist, they do matter and such relationships are worth maintaining as Everton and the likes of Peterborough fc can testify. I am not suggesting that they'll give us players for free. I am only saying that burning bridges for 5m-10m is kind of stupid considering the wealth of talent United has in their arsenal and their previous willingness to sell it/loaning it on the cheap. Even if Everton are hell bent to take United to the cleaners a certain level of diplomacy should be maintained. Should they bring the Maguire deal in the picture considering that such deal is considered as one of the biggest mistakes United had done in the recent history? It does sound counterproductive to me.
 
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United have also agreed to pay LESS than they offered Everton for De Ligt, a player who has more experience that Brathwaite.

But I don't think the fees offered for all 3 and hugely different. (Without knowing the details for each offer)
 
RedRocket9908 said:
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Branthwaite has 1 international appearance by 22. I'm not sure that match makes the 'no international experience' part for Yoro particularly relevant.

The 1 year left on his contract is more relevant. But we couldn't wait until then as he'd have joined Real Madrid. As, unlike Branthwaite, we had rivals for Yoro. It's a big coup if we've beaten Madrid to him, even if we've had to overpay a little (in terms of the 1 year left on his deal part).
 


They’re pissed off that it weakens their position of Branthwaite being worth £70-80m now.
 
Feels like Luckhurst us trying to stir the pot and Everton is trying to save face with Branthwhaite (who I read a few weeks ago was reported to be annoyed that Everton weren't negotiating with us) as they assumed United would be back with a higher bid
 
PL prices are just insanely bloated these days and if you're United, it makes way more sense to shop somewhere else. We live in a world in which we can sign 24 year old Matthijs de Ligt for a similar fee as West Ham paid for 27 year old Max Kilman. So yeah, Everton can be surprised all they want, but nobody is going to spend 70m on Jarrad Branthwaite.
 
Sid234 said:
Feels like Luckhurst us trying to stir the pot and Everton is trying to save face with Branthwhaite (who I read a few weeks ago was reported to be annoyed that Everton weren't negotiating with us) as they assumed United would be back with a higher bid
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I think he’s rang them as soon as the Yoro news emerged to get a reaction out there.

Everton can ask for £70-80m (reported how they value him) but in a world where Yoro is £42m base and £10m add ons there is no way a club pays £70-80m for Branthwaite.
 
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