Jarrad Branthwaite

Erics_Collar said:
How would you have handled it if you were Everton?

Genuinely curious because I don't get the furore United fans have with them.

If I was Everton and United came knocking at my door less than 2 years removed from paying €95m for Antony and €75m for Hojlund - two players who had in around the same experience and achievements as Branthwaite at the time of their transfers without the bonus of being a home-grown player who has already shown his quality in the Premier League - I would be damn sure looking for the same transfer figure as Everton have.
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And they're discovering now that that wasn't the best way to play it because the leadership changed.

There's no right / wrong way. If the objective was get as much money as possible for the player this window then they could've at least come to the negotiating table after all the posturing.

If they think he's vital to the relegation fight so won't be sold unless a monstrous offer arrives, the fine but accept the risk of an unhappy player.

You can't have it both ways.

Anyway I don't get the entitlement from the fans or the dislike for Everton here. Branthwaite has a contract with them and is their player. Play the game but don't hate the player.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Branthwaite for me by some distance. United’s greatest teams have always included an excellent English core and we are losing that.

United’s new regime seem to believe Branthwaite is going to be world class and seems to be the one they would get if funds were no issue. Hope they get him

Watched De Ligt a few times in recent years and he’s been pants on every single occasion
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No one knows if he’s gonna be world class though. He’s showed nothing yet where as De Ligt as shown he can be a leader at a bigger team. When I’ve seen Branthwaite he’s been bullied. Phil Jones was meant to be the next big English CB back then. I’d give him another year at Everton and let him prove that he can be a consistently good CB.
 
I'd go with De Ligt over Branthwaite as well but not by a long distance. The former has proven world class form whereas the latter has the potential to get there.
 
Erics_Collar said:
How would you have handled it if you were Everton?

Genuinely curious because I don't get the furore United fans have with them.

If I was Everton and United came knocking at my door less than 2 years removed from paying €95m for Antony and €75m for Hojlund - two players who had in around the same experience and achievements as Branthwaite at the time of their transfers without the bonus of being a home-grown player who has already shown his quality in the Premier League - I would be damn sure looking for the same transfer figure as Everton have.
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Because basing your asking price on obvious overpayment (drastically so in Antony's case) is a really smart strategy.
 
Alex99 said:
Because basing your asking price on obvious overpayment (drastically so in Antony's case) is a really smart strategy.
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But that's exactly what they want.....an overpayment.

They don't want to sell him for a fair market value, because they don't want to sell him.

So they'll ask for more than that. They'll claim it's what they think his fair value is, but who wouldn't? No one goes into a negotiation with "we want X even though he's not worth it".

I don't understand how people disagree with this?
 
Erics_Collar said:
But that's exactly what they want.....an overpayment.

They don't want to sell him for a fair market value, because they don't want to sell him.

So they'll ask for more than that. They'll claim it's what they think his fair value is, but who wouldn't? No one goes into a negotiation with "we want X even though he's not worth it".

I don't understand how people disagree with this?
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Do people disagree?

The main point of discussion seems to be Everton valuing him north of £70 million while thinking £35K a week is standard for players of that value.
 
Said it before, it makes no sense for him to sign a new contract unless it’s generational talent wages, which is Everton’s current asking price for him.

They couldn’t have played this any worse really. They had a good offer on the table, should have took it instead of getting greedy. He’s done nothing to suggest he’s a £70m+ player. Guarantee they were already spending that money in their mind when they pitched it to United.

Ah well, relegation and losing a ‘generational talent’ all in the same season will be really tough to take.
 
lex talionis said:
I'd go with De Ligt over Branthwaite as well but not by a long distance. The former has proven world class form whereas the latter has the potential to get there.
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Maybe but how often does a player get sold for not reaching the heights only to then go on and be the player everyone seen years previously….usually that career momentum once gone is gone.
 
Blood Mage said:
Well we unsettled the player like we were clearly trying to do. I do have mixed feelings about making enemies out of Everton, we've always historically got on.
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I kindly ask you google Tom Cleverly, Aston Villa, and Everton. They are no friends of ours.
 
RedorDead21 said:
Maybe but how often does a player get sold for not reaching the heights only to then go on and be the player everyone seen years previously….usually that career momentum once gone is gone.
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I generally agree, however it appears the majority of Bayern fans are perplexed by his sale, think he would be a solid signing , but wouldn't want us to overpay.
 
crossy1686 said:
Said it before, it makes no sense for him to sign a new contract unless it’s generational talent wages, which is Everton’s current asking price for him.

They couldn’t have played this any worse really. They had a good offer on the table, should have took it instead of getting greedy. He’s done nothing to suggest he’s a £70m+ player. Guarantee they were already spending that money in their mind when they pitched it to United.

Ah well, relegation and losing a ‘generational talent’ all in the same season will be really tough to take.
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I don't have an issue with them not accepting "market value" for him. Sometimes a player is simply worth more to their current club.

I'm just confused by the idea that they are somehow going to navigate the summer without selling him, whilst also avoiding giving him a new contract that includes a significant pay increase and/or a clause that allows him to leave next summer for a "market value" fee.

There seems to be some sort of delusion amongst Everton fans that they a) aren't still financially in the shit, without proper owners, regardless of their short-term position (which is propped up by yet more borrowing), and b) aren't very much expected to be in yet another relegation battle.
 
Erics_Collar said:
But that's exactly what they want.....an overpayment.

They don't want to sell him for a fair market value, because they don't want to sell him.

So they'll ask for more than that. They'll claim it's what they think his fair value is, but who wouldn't? No one goes into a negotiation with "we want X even though he's not worth it".

I don't understand how people disagree with this?
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I dont think Maguire was pitched as fair value. It was pitched as them being reluctant sellers who'd need a big, big fee to consider it. Caicedo wasn't pitched as fair value, it was very much we dont want to sell after already losing a few players and they were forced to the table by the player kicking up a fuss. They were helped a fair bit by Liverpool throwing a generous offer on the table and competing for his signature.
Both were being sold in a pretty limited market with few alternatives to clubs with very specific needs. They were widely thought of as being overpriced with the caveat that if they worked out no one would care.
They can pitch Branthwaite on an overpriced, excessive figure and sell him on that premise (probably not this season tbf). But it being fairly explicit that your charging a premium helps to keep the price of contract extensions in check.
If they accepted his true value is around 50m they could afford a contract that reflected that - and he'd probably be thrilled to get that kind of wage. Whatever they offer him now is going to feel like being shortchanged because they've spent the summer telling anyone and everyone who'll listen that he's a generational talent worth 70m+, offers of 35-45m are an insult (and thus you imagine the wage of a 35-45m player would in turn be an insult).
 
caid said:
I dont think Maguire was pitched as fair value. It was pitched as them being reluctant sellers who'd need a big, big fee to consider it. Caicedo wasn't pitched as fair value, it was very much we dont want to sell after already losing a few players and they were forced to the table by the player kicking up a fuss. They were helped a fair bit by Liverpool throwing a generous offer on the table and competing for his signature.
Both were being sold in a pretty limited market with few alternatives to clubs with very specific needs. They were widely thought of as being overpriced with the caveat that if they worked out no one would care.
They can pitch Branthwaite on an overpriced, excessive figure and sell him on that premise (probably not this season tbf). But it being fairly explicit that your charging a premium helps to keep the price of contract extensions in check.
If they accepted his true value is around 50m they could afford a contract that reflected that - and he'd probably be thrilled to get that kind of wage. Whatever they offer him now is going to feel like being shortchanged because they've spent the summer telling anyone and everyone who'll listen that he's a generational talent worth 70m+, offers of 35-45m are an insult (and thus you imagine the wage of a 35-45m player would in turn be an insult).
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I always pitch my poker hands at fair value.
 
caid said:
I dont think Maguire was pitched as fair value. It was pitched as them being reluctant sellers who'd need a big, big fee to consider it. Caicedo wasn't pitched as fair value, it was very much we dont want to sell after already losing a few players and they were forced to the table by the player kicking up a fuss. They were helped a fair bit by Liverpool throwing a generous offer on the table and competing for his signature.
Both were being sold in a pretty limited market with few alternatives to clubs with very specific needs. They were widely thought of as being overpriced with the caveat that if they worked out no one would care.
They can pitch Branthwaite on an overpriced, excessive figure and sell him on that premise (probably not this season tbf). But it being fairly explicit that your charging a premium helps to keep the price of contract extensions in check.
If they accepted his true value is around 50m they could afford a contract that reflected that - and he'd probably be thrilled to get that kind of wage. Whatever they offer him now is going to feel like being shortchanged because they've spent the summer telling anyone and everyone who'll listen that he's a generational talent worth 70m+, offers of 35-45m are an insult (and thus you imagine the wage of a 35-45m player would in turn be an insult).
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Didn't Brighton reject 70-80m for Caicedo and then put him on a deal of only roughly 60k though?
 
caid said:
No, they agreed a deal of 60k and rejected an offer of 70-80m months later. At which point he basically went on strike.
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I'm reading that the deal he signed in March after the January transfer bid of 70-80m was 60k.
 
Erics_Collar said:
How would you have handled it if you were Everton?

Genuinely curious because I don't get the furore United fans have with them.

If I was Everton and United came knocking at my door less than 2 years removed from paying €95m for Antony and €75m for Hojlund - two players who had in around the same experience and achievements as Branthwaite at the time of their transfers without the bonus of being a home-grown player who has already shown his quality in the Premier League - I would be damn sure looking for the same transfer figure as Everton have.
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I think there had to be some understanding from Everton’s part…that Utd have been terrible in recent years with regards to their transfers. And the new regime wants to do business and pay what others might. For too long we’ve been a cash cow for many clubs and it had to stop.

Everton came in to the deal still expecting Utd of old and quite frankly, that’s on them for being naive enough to expect us to crumble.

And now they’ve backed themselves into a corner because his agent has an easy conversation. Pay my client what a 70m player is entitled to

The fees paid previously for others is irrelevant. See first paragraph!! We’ve got Yoro (arguably higher ceiling)cheaper. Likely De Ligt will follow cheaper (serial winner already)…and that is now the benchmark for Utd re Branthwaite. Not Maguire, Hojlund and Antony
 
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Alex99 said:
I don't have an issue with them not accepting "market value" for him. Sometimes a player is simply worth more to their current club.

I'm just confused by the idea that they are somehow going to navigate the summer without selling him, whilst also avoiding giving him a new contract that includes a significant pay increase and/or a clause that allows him to leave next summer for a "market value" fee.

There seems to be some sort of delusion amongst Everton fans that they a) aren't still financially in the shit, without proper owners, regardless of their short-term position (which is propped up by yet more borrowing), and b) aren't very much expected to be in yet another relegation battle.
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I don't think it's that far fetched. If they hold firm and don't sell him this year, What's he going to do? Sure his agent might be throwing their words back at him, but he's under contract. He might be frustrated -angry even - but it's in his interests to turn up and perform.
 
Erics_Collar said:
How would you have handled it if you were Everton?

Genuinely curious because I don't get the furore United fans have with them.

If I was Everton and United came knocking at my door less than 2 years removed from paying €95m for Antony and €75m for Hojlund - two players who had in around the same experience and achievements as Branthwaite at the time of their transfers without the bonus of being a home-grown player who has already shown his quality in the Premier League - I would be damn sure looking for the same transfer figure as Everton have.
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Well Everton can and will value their player at whatever they want. However, when the club decides to move on to another target and sign said target, acting annoyed and getting all arsey about it is really weird. Also, if said player wanted to leave and feels Everton blocked him from that they have to deal with the consequences of that. Entering contract negotiations with a player they just stopped from a 160k contract will be tricky.
 
SilentWitness said:
Didn't Brighton reject 70-80m for Caicedo and then put him on a deal of only roughly 60k though?
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Yeah, that was an odd one. It must have been with a guarantee he’d be sold that summer for the best deal that they could get, as it made absolutely zero sense otherwise.
 
Doracle said:
Yeah, that was an odd one. It must have been with a guarantee he’d be sold that summer for the best deal that they could get, as it made absolutely zero sense otherwise.
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I do seem to remember him moaning about a gentleman's agreement didn't he? I think most of the comments on here were that he was foolish to take it.
I kind of wish i could quote from the locked transfer thread
"Can still see him leaving this summer for a similar price." "Brighton are a fair and sensible club. They will sell for the right price."
Guess who? :devil:
 
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Globule said:
I don't think it's that far fetched. If they hold firm and don't sell him this year, What's he going to do? Sure his agent might be throwing their words back at him, but he's under contract. He might be frustrated -angry even - but it's in his interests to turn up and perform.
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He's on 35k. He'll get that anywhere, no matter how much or how shite he is this season. He'll also have two years left on his contract next summer, which basically makes it their last chance to try and command a "full" fee, and that's if they stay up, which they might well need him to do.

It's a gamble, and I can't blame them for taking it, I just think it's incredibly fanciful for them to think he's going to be happy on his current wage after all the hyping up they've done this summer. I can't see how they can publicly claim him to be among their most valuable assets, but then not pay him accordingly.

I don't think it's weird that they've rejected our offer(s) for him, I just think it's odd that their fans seem to think he's going to be content on £35k a week when, by all accounts, we'd already agreed to pay him about four times that.

There's also the fact that Everton, whether they like it or not, are very much seen as a "stepping stone" in the Premier League. feck around too much and they become a less attractive prospect to future "Brainthwaites" ,who won't want to risk missing out on a big move,
 
the_cliff said:
Well Everton can and will value their player at whatever they want. However, when the club decides to move on to another target and sign said target, acting annoyed and getting all arsey about it is really weird. Also, if said player wanted to leave and feels Everton blocked him from that they have to deal with the consequences of that. Entering contract negotiations with a player they just stopped from a 160k contract will be tricky.
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Yes this was pretty hilarious to be honest.
 
Alex99 said:
He's on 35k. He'll get that anywhere, no matter how much or how shite he is this season. He'll also have two years left on his contract next summer, which basically makes it their last chance to try and command a "full" fee, and that's if they stay up, which they might well need him to do.

It's a gamble, and I can't blame them for taking it, I just think it's incredibly fanciful for them to think he's going to be happy on his current wage after all the hyping up they've done this summer. I can't see how they can publicly claim him to be among their most valuable assets, but then not pay him accordingly.

I don't think it's weird that they've rejected our offer(s) for him, I just think it's odd that their fans seem to think he's going to be content on £35k a week when, by all accounts, we'd already agreed to pay him about four times that.

There's also the fact that Everton, whether they like it or not, are very much seen as a "stepping stone" in the Premier League. feck around too much and they become a less attractive prospect to future "Brainthwaites" ,who won't want to risk missing out on a big move,
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He's a promising young player that has only played one season in the Everton first team. Yes, he's likely to be annoyed at the money, but is he going to go on strike or down tools? Probably not. He'll still want to perform every week, because if he doesn't will there be the same suitors for him next summer?

And yes, Everton are risking missing out on his peak value if he doesn't sign a new contract, but they're not in a position to just chuck money at him. They might reasonably assume their chances of fighting relegation are better with him in the team, especially because if they try to replace him it'll likely mean a new player on higher wages.
 
I’m sure if he doesn’t move he’ll agree a contract on far better terms.

Everton have three options:
  1. Sell for ~£50m
  2. Keep and raise his wages to ~£150,000
  3. Keep and stick to current contract
None of those are ideal for the club. 2 of them risk sending out the message that players can’t move on when they’ve developed and one risks them feeling they should be getting Maguire fees from a club that isn’t ran that way anymore
 
Having lost Onana already I can easily see why Everton are playing hardball on this one. In fairness to the player though, they should at least offer him a good wage increase considering how much they value him. That said, the truth is he didn’t make the England squad for the Euros, but if fit, Maguire would almost certainly have made it - that’s the yardstick.
 
Globule said:
He's a promising young player that has only played one season in the Everton first team. Yes, he's likely to be annoyed at the money, but is he going to go on strike or down tools? Probably not. He'll still want to perform every week, because if he doesn't will there be the same suitors for him next summer?

And yes, Everton are risking missing out on his peak value if he doesn't sign a new contract, but they're not in a position to just chuck money at him. They might reasonably assume their chances of fighting relegation are better with him in the team, especially because if they try to replace him it'll likely mean a new player on higher wages.
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At first glance he doesn't seem like a player who'll kick up a fuss. He would have by now if he was going to. The opportunity looks past at this point anyway. You'd want him to keep his head down and let his agent deal with it. Thats the best outcome for everyone involved, including people looking to buy him.
And he'll take a good deal today over a great deal that might never come. They've given his agent good leverage but they have enough time and excuses to play hardball for a while themselves. I expect they'll figure it out.
City's trial in November could change things drastically so it would probably be sensible to wait it out. Newcastle could find a dozen new record breaking sponsors just in time for January.
 
Globule said:
He's a promising young player that has only played one season in the Everton first team. Yes, he's likely to be annoyed at the money, but is he going to go on strike or down tools? Probably not. He'll still want to perform every week, because if he doesn't will there be the same suitors for him next summer?

And yes, Everton are risking missing out on his peak value if he doesn't sign a new contract, but they're not in a position to just chuck money at him. They might reasonably assume their chances of fighting relegation are better with him in the team, especially because if they try to replace him it'll likely mean a new player on higher wages.
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I don't think we disagree. It's a gamble I understand, I just don't quite get the posturing from Everton fans.

I also don't think it's necessarily a case of him deliberately downing tools, but more of a case of his performance levels not being quite there because of the off-field issues. We've seen it happen with many players, for many reasons, but commonly because of contract disputes.
 
Erics_Collar said:
How would you have handled it if you were Everton?

Genuinely curious because I don't get the furore United fans have with them.

If I was Everton and United came knocking at my door less than 2 years removed from paying €95m for Antony and €75m for Hojlund - two players who had in around the same experience and achievements as Branthwaite at the time of their transfers without the bonus of being a home-grown player who has already shown his quality in the Premier League - I would be damn sure looking for the same transfer figure as Everton have.
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False comparisons for me as attacking players generally go for much more than defensive players (and obviously the Antony transfer was woefully negotiated by us and he went for way above what he should have - so poor example to point at an extreme than the norm).

What Everton accepted for Onana - a 22 year old CM with PL experience and already established himself with Belgium, is about the same fee that Branthwaite should be going for as well. Whatever the reasons they have for adding £20m onto the fee - English Tax, United Tax, only prepared to sell one of them, or whatever - none of it is reflective of a £20m higher level of ability between the two players. And usually you'd pay more for a similar ability midfielder than for a defender (and more for a striker than for a midfielder), not the other way around.
 
This is quite standard negotiating in any industry, they will know that he is worth that in the market and Everton should at least get much closer to that if they rate him that highly. I doubt he or his agent expect them to match it.
 
the_cliff said:
Well Everton can and will value their player at whatever they want. However, when the club decides to move on to another target and sign said target, acting annoyed and getting all arsey about it is really weird. Also, if said player wanted to leave and feels Everton blocked him from that they have to deal with the consequences of that. Entering contract negotiations with a player they just stopped from a 160k contract will be tricky.
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Has that happened, though? Have Everton been acting like that about us seemingly moving on to other targets? A small portion of fans on Twitter doesn't count.
 
RedorDead21 said:
Maybe but how often does a player get sold for not reaching the heights only to then go on and be the player everyone seen years previously….usually that career momentum once gone is gone.
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True, but then again there are no guarantees with any new signing. Veron and DiMaria were in their prime and world class yet they flopped at Old Trafford. Then you have players like Keane and Cantona, who were world class adjacent at best before coming to Old Trafford yet became global legends. Then you have players like Park Ji-Sung who was perhaps never world class but wildly exceeded even the most optimistic expectations.

The bet, putting legitimate concerns about the right price, is either going to be on a proven world class player returning to world class or on a player who shows glimpses (which I haven't seen) of potential world class form. It's a risk either way.
 
I highly doubt it, but is it related with him possibly leaving if he is not signing new contract?

 
Vidooq said:
I highly doubt it, but is it related with him possibly leaving if he is not signing new contract?

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Nope. We need a new CB regardless. Godfrey has left and Keane and Holgate are shite.

Gives us that cover if he does leave though.
 
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