Januzaj | Confirmed: On Loan at Dortmund

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Crossie said:
Funny that Europa League games and cup games meaningless friendlies. ;)
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Played just 383 min of 1440 possible min. 180 min in Europe League at the start of the season against weak opponents (Krasnodar and Saloniki) and 25 min in the DFB Pokal against Paderborn where he was introduced when the game was already over (5-1).

That's why I say more the latter than the former.
 
Surely van Gaal and his staff can't be that surprised how little match time Jauzaj is getting? There was always a very high chance that he would be the third choice backup in midfield.
 
Cantona'sCollar said:
There are a lot of people complaining about his loan to BVB because he's not getting a lot of match-time, and some also think he is going to be sold without having been afforded a real chance here, but I don't think we can compare it to most youth player loans (eg. Macheda, Powell etc) - just training and playing with a team of BVB's standard (as annoying as that is to write, being a United supporter) will surely improve him. No matter what anyone says, no one can doubt he has huge talent and serious potential. Whether or not he is in LVG's plans for next season should not matter too much - LVG and everyone else knows that by the summer of 2017, we will have a new manager.

I may be in a minority here, but i'm still very optimistic that he will be playing regular football for us either next season (should LVG favour him) or the one after that (should LVG not), and will have a chance to make it here. The people running the club, contrary to popular belief, are not idiots - it is clear that he is not someone we should let go of without very careful consideration (and heavy compensation). He is quite highly rated, even outside (perhaps more-so) of the United fan base.

Just my thoughts, but I see him returning here an improved player. He hasn't played much at BVB, but he seems a lot more mature whenever I watch him, and has also improved his physique. Those were always the two biggest criticisms of him while he was here. I think another year and we will see where his future lies.
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I don`t know. There were periods when he looked great for us but Overall he has not (yet) made it here and it seems to be the same in Dortmund.

He has got potential that`s for sure.

Maybe we should loan him out to a weaker Team than Dortmund.
 
bring him back. he's wasting away. If there's no space, sell him for a low amount and low buy back clause.
 
I would welcome him back. With Memphis taking time to find his feet, and Mata not exactly the pacey/creative winger type, I think Januzaj could get plenty of gametime.

As ever, Rooney is the elephant in the room, but if we continue to play him behind Martial then that would mean a combination of Memphis/Mata/Januzaj/Lingard competing for the spots on the wings, which I think is a good and balanced set of players, with Rooney/Martial up front and Rooney/Herrera/Mata/Fellaini as our #10 options.

Hopefully he has had some benefit from his time in Germany, training with a different team, different system etc. My only concern is that as a creative/flair player, training under Tuchel and then coming back to the ultra-conservative/risk-averse LVG, Adnan could (worst case scenario) think he doesnt really enjoy playing in this system with this style of play, and push for a move or another loan.

I can just picture him now, whispering promises of creativity, flair and tempo into the ears of Martial/Herrera/Memphis etc....
 
Our squad is paper thin up front and Januzaj can play in all 4 attacking positions, he's not getting much minutes there, so we should really just bring him back (if we even can). Should have never let him go there in the first place, such a stupid decision even without hindsight.

He wasn't even bad when he got the run at the start, he looked like one of the few who could create something.
 
A somewhat odd career trajectory.

I would welcome him back, though. We are one injury away from having basically no tactical attacking options on the bench.
 
It was an odd loan move. He was always going to struggle to get on the pitch. Should have gone to a Premier League team who play attacking football. Bournemouth or even Swansea.
 
do.ob said:
Surely van Gaal and his staff can't be that surprised how little match time Jauzaj is getting? There was always a very high chance that he would be the third choice backup in midfield.
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And that is why the loan made very little sense considering the management must have known where Adnan would stand as a squad option for BVB.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
It was an odd loan move. He was always going to struggle to get on the pitch. Should have gone to a Premier League team who play attacking football. Bournemouth or even Swansea.
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Swansea or Southampton would have been good shouts. I liked the loans of Welbeck and Cleverley. Although both are not playing for us anymore but their loan spells should be our template. No point sending players abroad to teams they have very little chance of playing regularly in.
 
Hope he does come back from loan. We are lacking what he offers so he could easily get plenty of games if he gets his head down and works hard.
 
FCBarca said:
Loans are difficult to benefit from for a rated talent. A big reason why sales with buyback are preferred
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Sales with buyback are always so dangerous, though, for any club other than a Madrid or Barca who will be in CL finals every other year and can be sure that no player will ever turn them down. United have a lot of pull but if someone plays for a few years in our reserves without getting games for the senior team, is sold elsewhere with a view to a buyback and shines there, becomes a regular, gets lots of flattering press... who's to say that they might decide against coming back and risking being benched by a team whose place at the top table is not quite as prominent as it once was?
 
He should have gone on loan somewhere he'd be one of the main players, it was always asking a lot to get a start at Dortmund.

I personally think his development has stunted really badly in the last few years, for all his good touches and skills, he underwhelms massively.
 
ivaldo said:
Stop making things up and claiming it's LVGs philosophy, that'll be a start.
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feck sakes, did someone shit on your cornflakes this morning?

i didn't say anything that overtly irrational or over the top, but i clearly touched a nerve. the internet must be a tough place for you if what i posted was enough to throw you off.
 
caisenma said:
feck sakes, did someone shit on your cornflakes this morning?

i didn't say anything that overtly irrational or over the top, but i clearly touched a nerve. the internet must be a tough place for you if what i posted was enough to throw you off.
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Someone disagrees with something I say = touched a nerve. I'm interested to hear where you've discovered that creativity is against Van Gaal's Philosophy.

take a deep breath, mate.
 
Devil81 said:
He should have gone on loan somewhere he'd be one of the main players, it was always asking a lot to get a start at Dortmund.

I personally think his development has stunted really badly in the last few years, for all his good touches and skills, he underwhelms massively.
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He wouldnt be a main player anywhere we sent him after his start to the season. Dropping down a level albeit in the same league is even harder in many respects for a player like him. Go to a similar team and you have more than capable competition. If he can't make it with us or at Dortmund there is every chance he wont make it for one of the top teams.
 
RedorDead21 said:
He wouldnt be a main player anywhere we sent him after his start to the season. Dropping down a level albeit in the same league is even harder in many respects for a player like him. Go to a similar team and you have more than capable competition. If he can't make it with us or at Dortmund there is every chance he wont make it for one of the top teams.
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Which is why you don´t send youngsters there, but to teams on a lower level, where he would start. If he wanted to play outside the EPL, he could have gone to 80% of the Bundesliga teams and be either an immidient starter or at least extremely close to the starting formation. This includes teams like Gladbach, Schalke or Leverkusen which also play internationally. Instead he went to a team where the offensive is the strongest part of the starting team and scored goals for fun even at the time when the loan was finalised. Given the type of form Kagawa, Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang already had at at that time it was obvious how hard it would be to get in there. Reus as star player was never threatened aswell. Add to that the lack of pre season with the team and the result is a very hard situation for the boy.

Maybe a recall scenario is possible in the Winter but only if we are able to secure a more permanent option then. Januzaj is still needed in a way as we would lack in numbers otherwise if we are actually hit by an injury spell. Thanks to United he is also extremely cheap for us (no fee, half the wages payed) and as 5th or 6th offensive option easily good enough. That was the whole reason why we agreed to this loan deal. We needed an additional body for offense quickly as the actual target (Yarmolenko) became unavailable because Kiew put a stop to the transfer near the end. Januzaj was the ideal solution given these circumstances as he would either become available during the loan spell or at least buy the management time to find a better option.
 
According to bild :
Tuchel thinks he is too slow for his way of playing. It may be also speed of though and not only physical attribute of speed.
 
Could be that he was sent to Dortmund to improve his speed of passing and swiftness of attacks. Dortmund's style has always been quick free flowing football these past 5 or so years. I can imagine LVG wanted to keep him at a club with an high level of technical playing ability so that he would slot in to the first team for us next season more smoothly. But, like others I would have preferred to see him at a lesser Spanish club where he would have (supposedly) got more minutes but the technical skill is still through the roof.

I'm not even sure that would be the case regardless, I don't think he is yet at the level to be a starting for the majority of premier league or spanish clubs, let alone ours. I think he's too slow to make a decision in the final third and he isn't suited to a wing or inside forward role yet due to his lack of rapid pace of physicality. Although I noticed some marked improvements in the latter in pre season he got muscled off the ball fairly easily against premier league defences and would lose possession. For what it's worth I just think he will be a late bloomer and his "break through" season under Moyes did him no favours as his current level of talent is rated as being much higher than is actually the case by Utd fans, which is understandable as everyone loves a young player coming through but Lingard is a much more attractive proposition right now, even if he had less talent than Januzaj his decision making in the final 3rd is much, much better and that is what makes him a better player right now.
 
I think LvG may have sent him to Dortmund to knock him down a peg or two, fully aware of the fact that he wouldn't get much game time.

There were reports that Januzaj was a lazy trainer who thought he'd already made it in his career. Sending him to another A-list club to prove to him that he needed to work harder at this level may have been LvG's strategy all along.

It was obvious he was hardly going to play. The only way the loan makes sense is if his time on the bench under a different manager was a part of his education. Januzaj got plenty of minutes under Moyes and may have felt that LvG was underrating him. Struggling under a second top manager in Tuchel will confirm to him that he isn't good enough yet.

I don't think this this was ever a developmental loan like most usually are. It was about piercing the player's ego a little bit.
 
Dante said:
I think LvG may have sent him to Dortmund to knock him down a peg or two, fully aware of the fact that he wouldn't get much game time.

There were reports that Januzaj was a lazy trainer who thought he'd already made it in his career. Sending him to another A-list club to prove to him that he needed to work harder at this level may have been LvG's strategy all along.

It was obvious he was hardly going to play. The only way the loan makes sense is if his time on the bench under a different manager was a part of his education. Januzaj got plenty of minutes under Moyes and may have felt that LvG was underrating him. Struggling under a second top manager in Tuchel will confirm to him that he isn't good enough yet.

I don't think this this was ever a developmental loan like most usually are. It was about piercing the player's ego a little bit.
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If this whole loan was just about a punishment to educate Januzaj and "build character", then this would tell a whole lot about van Gaal´s man management skills. No good manager should ever waste a whole year of a talents development just to prove a point or handle a player. Thats not developing a player, it is simply poor Management.
 
Maradona10 said:
According to bild :
Tuchel thinks he is too slow for his way of playing. It may be also speed of though and not only physical attribute of speed.
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BILD is the least trustworthy German source for Dortmund news. Unless confirmed by journos close to Dortmund or by Tuchel or Zorc in an interview, I wouldn't buy it.

I'm surprised no journo tries to find out why Januzaj went on loan to Dortmund and not to another club, i.e. if it was United's idea or Januzaj's.
 
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Dante said:
I think LvG may have sent him to Dortmund to knock him down a peg or two, fully aware of the fact that he wouldn't get much game time.

There were reports that Januzaj was a lazy trainer who thought he'd already made it in his career. Sending him to another A-list club to prove to him that he needed to work harder at this level may have been LvG's strategy all along.

It was obvious he was hardly going to play. The only way the loan makes sense is if his time on the bench under a different manager was a part of his education. Januzaj got plenty of minutes under Moyes and may have felt that LvG was underrating him. Struggling under a second top manager in Tuchel will confirm to him that he isn't good enough yet.

I don't think this this was ever a developmental loan like most usually are. It was about piercing the player's ego a little bit.
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I would hope Van Gaal isn't an utter retard, messing with probably what is the most important stage of a (talented) young player's career just to teach him a lesson :wenger:
 
SirBobbysCombover said:
Kagawa looks double the player in the same side, so by definition is Shinji wasn't good enough how is Adnan going to make it at OT?
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Because that's not how football works.

Dante said:
There were reports that Januzaj was a lazy trainer who thought he'd already made it in his career.
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Were there? He hired a nutrionist over the summer, he's always had an exemplary attitude in the youth teams and shown he can adapt quickly. I really don't buy any reports about him being a lazy trainer whatsoever.
 
Stupid loan in not working out shocker.

Who could have predicted that he'd get barely any game time at Dortmund? LVG is probably mystified.
 
He would have been perfect in a Swansea, Everton, Stoke or a Crystal Palace. Mid table teams that play good football and rely on getting the best out of every man.
 
Irrational. said:
He would have been perfect in a Swansea, Everton, Stoke or a Crystal Palace. Mid table teams that play good football and rely on getting the best out of every man.
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This. It all seemed so last minute and some sort of after though his loan to BvB. We all knew he would be at best a super sub. He's not even that for them. It's really sad and I wish we brought him back. At least to suffer on his own Damn bench
 
Irrational. said:
He would have been perfect in a Swansea, Everton, Stoke or a Crystal Palace. Mid table teams that play good football and rely on getting the best out of every man.
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Not really - he isn't fast or physical enough for a team that's aiming to do a lot of counterattacking and his decision making (and physicality) is to poor for a more possession based side. It's actually hard to think of a club where he'd get much playing time. He's just not good enough for a top tier club, doesn't fit with the potential playing styles of the middle clubs, and is totally unsuited for a relegation zone club. In 3 or 4 years, if he gets some playing time (maybe in Holland, Belgium, or one of the Scandinavian leagues) he could develop in the way Eriksen did. I just don't see it happening in one of the top leagues.
 
Sam said:
Stupid loan in not working out shocker.

Who could have predicted that he'd get barely any game time at Dortmund? LVG is probably mystified.
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Yeah, this loan move never made any sense to me. Why not send him to a mid-lower PL side where he could continue to be conditioned to the rigors of the Prem? I'm sure plently of teams would have taken him in a heartbeat. Even loaning him to a top Championship side would have been better than Dortmund.
 
ravelston said:
Not really - he isn't fast or physical enough for a team that's aiming to do a lot of counterattacking and his decision making (and physicality) is to poor for a more possession based side. It's actually hard to think of a club where he'd get much playing time. He's just not good enough for a top tier club, doesn't fit with the potential playing styles of the middle clubs, and is totally unsuited for a relegation zone club. In 3 or 4 years, if he gets some playing time (maybe in Holland, Belgium, or one of the Scandinavian leagues) he could develop in the way Eriksen did. I just don't see it happening in one of the top leagues.
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I think his matches for Dortmund actually looked quite promising and I don't think he's that far off from playing a bigger role for them (especially since they do thinks a bit differently than van Gaal (Tuchel's approach seems a lot more direct and open to certain risks) and he didn't even get a pre season to adapt to that and the other little issues that come from moving to a new country). It's just that they really have no incentive to invest anything into developing him as long as he's just on loan so he's behind players like Ramos and Hofmann as they are probably still a bit ahead in the short term.

On paper a pseudo permanent deal with a buy back clause probably would have been better, but I think Dortmund refuse those out of principle.
 
I'm not sure if he's much behind Hofmann. Recently, Januzaj was in the squad while Hofmann wasn't. Both didn't play a lot though, simply because Castro stepped up and got game time when someone in our attack needed a rest or was injured.
 
Crossie said:
I'm not sure if he's much behind Hofmann. Recently, Januzaj was in the squad while Hofmann wasn't. Both didn't play a lot though, simply because Castro stepped up and got game time when someone in our attack needed a rest or was injured.
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Yeah, maybe he's actually ahead of Hofmann now. But even still Januzaj played so little that I find it hard to tell.
I expect a lot of rotation vs Krasnodar (because that match is played in Russia) and vs PAOK (because even a draw in Kuban will already guarantee them the group win).

But aside from that Tuchel doesn't seem to keen on rotation, so assuming no one picks up a long term injury I think we will only see Castro making it into the starting lineup in midfield.

The fixture list doesn't help much either:
Hamburg (A): Dortmund have a fairly bad track record vs them recently, it's an away match on friday night and Hamburg seem a lot more stable this season
Stuttgart (H): Despite of their bad position in the table Stuttgart actually play pretty well, aside from too frequent defensive mistakes and bad finishing. They utterly dominated Schalke and they caused a lot of trouble in Leverkusen - where they managed to go up by two goals twice, only to feck it up later, refs also played a role I believe.
Wolfsburg (A): This one probably speaks for itself.
Frankfurt (H): could see some rotation here, especially with the cup away tie three days later.
Köln (A): Nasty, defensively very solid feckers, won 3:0 at Schalke, drew vs Wolfsburg and beat Leverkusen last week, not someone who will be taken lightly.
 
Dante said:
I think LvG may have sent him to Dortmund to knock him down a peg or two, fully aware of the fact that he wouldn't get much game time.

There were reports that Januzaj was a lazy trainer who thought he'd already made it in his career. Sending him to another A-list club to prove to him that he needed to work harder at this level may have been LvG's strategy all along.

It was obvious he was hardly going to play. The only way the loan makes sense is if his time on the bench under a different manager was a part of his education. Januzaj got plenty of minutes under Moyes and may have felt that LvG was underrating him. Struggling under a second top manager in Tuchel will confirm to him that he isn't good enough yet.

I don't think this this was ever a developmental loan like most usually are. It was about piercing the player's ego a little bit.
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I highly doubt this. The chances are that Van Gaal thought that he would get a good run of games in last seasons 7th best team in Germany. This thought process would be backed up by them enquiring about his availability and then going on to paying his £1m in wages for the season. I imagine Van Gaal thought that if he played to his potential he would comfortably be ahead of Kagawa, Castro and Hofmann in the pecking order (none of which are world beaters).

Naturally if two players are equal Dortmund will opt for one of their players, but if he can't get ahead of any of those three then that says more about his performances in matches and training, rather than anything else. Coming back to United he'll have to put in performances to get ahead of the likes of Herrera, Mata, Martial and probably a player like Mane or by the end of January. He isn't going to even close to do that if he isn't getting ahead of the likes of Castro.
 
finneh said:
I highly doubt this. The chances are that Van Gaal thought that he would get a good run of games in last seasons 7th best team in Germany. This thought process would be backed up by them enquiring about his availability and then going on to paying his £1m in wages for the season. I imagine Van Gaal thought that if he played to his potential he would comfortably be ahead of Kagawa, Castro and Hofmann in the pecking order (none of which are world beaters).
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Then van Gaal wouldn't know his business to be quite frank and after managing (and failing) in Bundesliga himself not too long a go I doubt he would be this naive.
 
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