Jan Vertonghen

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The Neviller said:
feck sake, Dirk Kuyt has a Dutch Footballer of the year award.
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I just c+p'ed it from wikipedia, I never said all his achievements were worth boasting about. All I'm saying is team honours don't accurately reflect the skill of the player - plenty of rubbish players have won titles.

Dirk Kuyt wasn't a bad player by the way so hardly surprising he got that award.
 
The Neviller said:
Evans is better than Vertonghen, and Roy Hodgson picks the England team. Both Smalling and Jones are better than Phil Jagielka.

Quit being butthurt because people don't rate the defender who played like a clown last year as highly as you do.

"But, but, but he was out of position and AVB...blah blah blah".
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He was better at LB than Smalling or Jones were at RB probably. And re Smalling when he has gotten his chances for England he has hardly taken it making mistakes and being woeful in possession.

He might have better potential than Jagielka and might surpass him this season even, but right now Jagielka's selection was justified.


And Evans is underrated because he keeps getting injured and isn't a leader. He will begin to be rated highly again when he has a full solid year as a starting regular when our team is performing well. There's not actually much between Vertonghen and him actually overall when they are both playing for settled sides in their positions regularly.
 
Eriksen said:
I just c+p'ed it from wikipedia, I never said all his achievements were worth boasting about. All I'm saying is team honours don't accurately reflect the skill of the player - plenty of rubbish players have won titles.

Dirk Kuyt wasn't a bad player by the way so hardly surprising he got that award.
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Not many rubbish players win multiple titles, and stick around at clubs fighting for and winning titles long enough, nor play enough, to win those medals.

Dirk Kuyt is and was shite
 
I'm not even saying Vertonghen isn't a good defender, he clearly is, but you've reacted to a bit of criticism with "he's better than Evans, Jones and Smalling" and have resorted to then slating Uniteds centre back options as a way to show Vertonghen is so much better. What response did you expect when you talk bollocks?
 
The Neviller said:
Not many rubbish players win multiple titles, and stick around at clubs fighting for and winning titles long enough, nor play enough, to win those medals.

Dirk Kuyt is and was shite
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Some do. He's not rubbish but because he has more league medals than Gerrard, does that make hm a better player? Obviously not, its just not a very good way to judge how good individually one is.

Whatever, that isn't for this thread.
 
Eriksen said:
Some do. He's not rubbish but because he has more league medals than Gerrard, does that make hm a better player? Obviously not, its just not a very good way to judge how good individually one is.

Whatever, that isn't for this thread.
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He's a better centre back than Gerrard, yes.

And Vertonghen.
 
The Neviller said:
I'm not even saying Vertonghen isn't a good defender, he clearly is, but you've reacted to a bit of criticism with "he's better than Evans, Jones and Smalling" and have resorted to then slating Uniteds centre back options as a way to show Vertonghen is so much better. What response did you expect when you talk bollocks?
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A bit of criticism? :lol:

I'm reacting to people making petty comments about this being his "level" and how apparently he's a calamity. I didn't slate them, I slated the people who think they are amazing players. I think they're decent but nothing special and as has been said, Smalling and Jones deservedly were behind Jagielka. Roy got that right.
 
The Neviller said:
Yeah, I've watched him play though.
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Yeah. I watched him being the best centre back in the league in his first year, you must've been on a long holiday during that or something, as I must've been when Evans turned in to the new coming of Maldini.
 
Eriksen said:
A bit of criticism? :lol:

I'm reacting to people making petty comments about this being his "level" and how apparently he's a calamity. I didn't slate them, I slated the people who think they are amazing players. I think they're decent but nothing special and as has been said, Smalling and Jones deservedly were behind Jagielka. Roy got that right.
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Someone said they thought Evans might be better and your response was a derisory laughing smilie. You've admitted barely watching Evans play, yet you're happy to portray it being laughable that he be mentioned in the same breath as Vertonghen. Well I've watched Evans play, qnd they're very similar, in style and ability. I wouldn't swap yours for ours.

Jonny Evans is "decent but nothing special" while Vertonghen is a world beater. He's wqs falling over himself, literally, to give away goals last season. He's a good centre back when played in a settled back four, and very good on the ball. Anyone who has actually watched Evans play would read that last sentence and wonder which of the two I'm talking about.

Jagielka is shite. Phil Jones isn't even near his potential and is already better than Jagielka. Looked like Hodgson made the right decision when Jagielka was stinking the place up.
 
Eriksen said:
Yeah. I watched him being the best centre back in the league in his first year, you must've been on a long holiday during that or something, as I must've been when Evans turned in to the new coming of Maldini.
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I was talking about Evans, dickhead.
 
The Neviller said:
Someone said they thought Evans might be better and your response was a derisory laughing smilie. You've admitted barely watching Evans play, yet you're happy to portray it being laughable that he be mentioned in the same breath as Vertonghen. Well I've watched Evans play, qnd they're very similar, in style and ability. I wouldn't swap yours for ours.

Jonny Evans is "decent but nothing special" while Vertonghen is a world beater. He's wqs falling over himself, literally, to give away goals last season. He's a good centre back when played in a settled back four, and very good on the ball. Anyone who has actually watched Evans play would read that last sentence and wonder which of the two I'm talking about.

Jagielka is shite. Phil Jones isn't even near his potential and is already better than Jagielka. Looked like Hodgson made the right decision when Jagielka was stinking the place up.
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Did I? I said I'd have to watch him more closely in future, as I hadn't seen anything special from him. I didn't say I hadn't watched him play much, I said that obviously I was missing something.

World beater? No, he's just the superior defender in my view and comfortably so. Jagielka was shite, but Jones probably would've been as well. He hardly lit the place up in qualifying, nor did Smalling.
 
Vertonghen strikes me as one of those defenders who get rated higher than they should because they are good going forward. He's classy on the ball but he's nowhere near one of the best in the league.

I wouldn't swap him for any of our three anyway.
 
An Irish Red said:
Vertonghen strikes me as one of those defenders who get rated higher than they should because they are good going forward. He's classy on the ball but he's nowhere near one of the best in the league.

I wouldn't swap him for any of our three anyway.
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You wouldn't swap Chris Smalling for Vertonghen? A guy that whilst is a decent defender (despite making a ton of mistakes, which is what Vertonghen is being criticized for) cannot physically pass the ball to another United player?

Alright, I'm out. Have fun guys!
 
Eriksen said:
Did I? I said I'd have to watch him more closely in future, as I hadn't seen anything special from him. I didn't say I hadn't watched him play much, I said that obviously I was missing something.

World beater? No, he's just the superior defender in my view and comfortably so. Jagielka was shite, but Jones probably would've been as well. He hardly lit the place up in qualifying, nor did Smalling.
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"Comfortably so". See it's dickish statements like this that people are responding to. There isn't much at all between them. I might prefer Evans because of my United bias, and likewise you Vertonghen with your Spurs bias, but then you throw out the "comfortably so" nonsense and it makes you sound like a twat. They're very similar players.

I'd have Jones in any side I was managing before Jagielka, every day of the week. The guy is absolutely terrible.
 
Eriksen said:
Says you. :lol:

I have also and he's an average CB with no stand out abilities who isn't commanding aerially but is decent on the ball.
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Yeah, you're not a dickhead with statements like this?

Do one, troll. You make Glaston look reasonable. I actually prefer him to you, which is extraordinary.
 
The Neviller said:
Yeah, you're not a dickhead with statements like this?

Do one, troll. You make Glaston look reasonable. I actually prefer him to you, which is extraordinary.
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"Do one" :lol:

Aw, I'm not wanted by a guy with anger issues with a keyboard who proceeds to call me numerous names and name statements "bullshit" like a massive bellend. Have a glass of water or something and calm down.

Its funny you call me a dickhead for making that statement when there is a bazillion other ones just like it when referring to Vertonghen, but apparently that's OK. How is it being a dickhead to label him a decent CB but nothing special? It's just how I rate him.
 
The Neviller said:
"Comfortably so". See it's dickish statements like this that people are responding to. There isn't much at all between them. I might prefer Evans because of my United bias, and likewise you Vertonghen with your Spurs bias, but then you throw out the "comfortably so" nonsense and it makes you sound like a twat. They're very similar players.

I'd have Jones in any side I was managing before Jagielka, every day of the week. The guy is absolutely terrible.
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I said he's comfortably better, in my view. How the feck is that a dickish statement? It's just my opinion. I think Vertonghen is the comfortably better player than Evans. It's hardly an out of this world crazy opinion, is it?
 
Eriksen said:
You wouldn't swap Chris Smalling for Vertonghen? A guy that whilst is a decent defender (despite making a ton of mistakes, which is what Vertonghen is being criticized for) cannot physically pass the ball to another United player?
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If he was as incapable of passing a football as you think he wouldn't be playing for Man Utd.

Defensive ability is a lot more important in a defender mind and he's better than Vertonghen in that regard.
 
Eriksen said:
"Do one" :lol:

Aw, I'm not wanted by a guy with anger issues with a keyboard who proceeds to call me numerous names and name statements "bullshit" like a massive bellend. Have a glass of water or something and calm down.

Its funny you call me a dickhead for making that statement when there is a bazillion other ones just like it when referring to Vertonghen, but apparently that's OK. How is it being a dickhead to label him a decent CB but nothing special? It's just how I rate him.
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There are plenty of well liked opposition fans on here, plenty who take the piss and WUM a bit. Some have gone on to join the modmin team. You're not one of them. Make of that what you will. You come across like a snide little turd, and a Glaston-lite.
 
The Neviller said:
There are plenty of well liked opposition fans on here, plenty who take the piss and WUM a bit. Some have gone on to join the modmin team. You're not one of them. Make of that what you will. You come across like a snide little turd, and a Glaston-lite.
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You come across as an giant dickhead with a massive attitude problem, but you know we can't all get along.
 
An Irish Red said:
If he was as incapable of passing a football as you think he wouldn't be playing for Man Utd.

Defensive ability is a lot more important in a defender mind and he's better than Vertonghen in that regard.
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He's incapable in comparison with other defenders playing at his level. His ability on the ball is pretty damn horrific.

I don't agree he's better in that regard either. Just because Vertonghen is silky on the ball and scores goals doesn't automatically make him a poor defender. He's actually pretty good. I wouldn't feel safer with Smalling in our defense.
 
Eriksen said:
You come across as an giant dickhead with a massive attitude problem, but you know we can't all get along.
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Don't disagree. Seems we've got each other pegged. I'll stick to being a massive dickhead and you stick to underrating every United player around whilst being a snide turd, and talking about Spurs like they're the new Galacticos.
 
The Neviller said:
Don't disagree. Seems we've got each other pegged. I'll stick to being a massive dickhead and you stick to underrating every United player around whilst being a snjde turd, and talking about Spurs like they're the new Galacticos.
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Sounds good. Chadli is basically Ronaldo anyway so that works.
 
Eriksen said:
He's incapable in comparison with other defenders playing at his level. His ability on the ball is pretty damn horrific.

I don't agree he's better in that regard either. Just because Vertonghen is silky on the ball and scores goals doesn't automatically make him a poor defender. He's actually pretty good. I wouldn't feel safer with Smalling in our defense.
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Smalling has poor distribution that needs to improve, but he's better defensively. You really see nothing positive at all with United. This has to be you trying to compensate somewhere. There are people here saying they actually rate Vertonghen, and you're still taking jibes at United players who play his position. To what end?
 
The Neviller said:
Smalling has poor distribution that needs to improve, but he's better defensively. You really see nothing positive at all with United. This has to be you trying to compensate somewhere. There are people here saying they actually rate Vertonghen, and you're still taking jibes at United players who play his position. To what end?
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You think he's better defensively, I don't. I'm not going to argue over it because it's going nowhere.


I don't rate your defensive options, I think you need signings there. I think Jones has great potential but right now isn't quite where he needs to be and needs an experienced head next to him. Smalling I don't think will ever make it at United, not a big fan personally.

As for the rest of your side, I've already noted I think Mata is the best CAM in the league. I also think you have the best strikers in the league currently by some distance and that Rooney is hugely underrated. I've also said on numerous occasions I think you'll have a good season, so yes I do see positive things with United. I just also feel you have major weaknesses - namely on the wings, in midfield and yes in defense. I certainly don't see nothing, I just don't think the team that finished 8th in the league last season don't have flaws, just like we do. We have even more, in fact. Yes much of that was down to Moyes but you can't blame him 100% - there are clearly gaps in your side that need to be filled.

I do for example, think Dawson is crap, our midfield is void of creativity bar Eriksen, Walker is a crap right back, we have no strikeforce whatsoever unless Soldado gets back to his Valencia form and we also have one of the worst wingers out there in Chadli. So no, I don't think we're "galaticos" as you put it and I don't think United are terrible.
 
Yeah, but you seem to disregard Evans' good performances in recent years (such as a superb 2011/12 season) and call him an average player. Yet, have no problem with harping on about Vertonghen's performances two season back. Evans would have been a vital part of a PL winning team at CB had it not been for QPR giving up in the last few minutes against City. Say what you want, but he came in for an injured Vidic and was exceptional. He also carried his good form into the following league winning season. If we really want to mention high profile games, then we look at his performance at the Bernabeu in the 1-1 draw in SAF's last season. He is a very good CB. He had problems aerially before but he has improved in that aspect considerably.
 
The Neviller said:
Evans is better than Vertonghen, and Roy Hodgson picks the England team. Both Smalling and Jones are better than Phil Jagielka.

Quit being butthurt because people don't rate the defender who played like a clown last year as highly as you do.

"But, but, but he was out of position and AVB...blah blah blah".
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I laughed :lol:
 
Eriksen said:
I don't rate your defensive options, I think you need signings there. I think Jones has great potential but right now isn't quite where he needs to be and needs an experienced head next to him. Smalling I don't think will ever make it at United, not a big fan personally.
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I do find it interesting that non-United fans see Jones as the better prospect and the better player currently than Smalling. I'd guess that a very large proportion of United fans here would take Smalling over Jones all day long. I think a lot even rate him as our best centre back, at present.

I do believe Jones will come good once he composes himself a bit, but for me, and only as a centre back, Smalling is a level or two above.

As right backs, I think they are both as awful as each other.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
I do find it interesting that non-United fans see Jones as the better prospect and the better player currently than Smalling. I'd guess that a very large proportion of United fans here would take Smalling over Jones all day long. I think a lot even rate him as our best centre back, at present.

I do believe Jones will come good once he composes himself a bit, but for me, and only as a centre back, Smalling is a level or two above.

As right backs, I think they are both as awful as each other.
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I really like Smalling but he needs a run at CB, which he'll get under LVG. Evans is excellent with the ball at his feet but has too many flaws in other parts of his game for me. Jones I'm still unsure of.

But slating a very good player in Vertonghen whilst we have major issues at CB is a bit hypocritical. The only people who really rate Jonny Evans are some United fans. Ask any opposition supporter and they wouldn't want Evans anywhere near their first 11.

And LVG supposedly wants 2 new CBs - what does that tell you?
 
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