Very true.
Jan Vertonghen
- Thread starter Levo
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Very true.
Talking about those two, why does Vertonghen play left back so often? Surely he's a far better option in the middle?
Because Rose was dog-shit
Well Sherwood had a hard on for Dawson and Kaboul is still living off his excellent season a few seasons back where he was easily our best CB. Since his bad injury he's been very poor.
He played left back because AVB thought it would be a top idea to loan out Assoue Ekotto and rely only on Rose, who then was awful and also got injured. Vertonghen can play that position so did. Now we've signed Ben Davies he'll play in the centre consistently. Anyone but Dawson who has the pace of a disabled and morbidly obese snail.
He is far better in the middle. We just lacked anything resembling a footballer on the left so he had to go out there.
Indeed. It's a bit silly taking the piss out of other team's CBs when all of ours are a bit dodgy. I like Vertonghen - he's better than any of our CBs too. But that's not difficult.
Wov, they're not that bad....
Kyle Walker also won Young player of the year once.
Jeez, he's really not. Did you watch him last season? After November he was a nonstop calamity. And yes, I know, 'he's played most of his games at LB but he's better as a CB'. Ok, the same is true of Jones and Smalling. If you're willing to ignore his terrible games out of position then you have to extend our players the same courtesy.
Evans is definitely better than him.
Evans, Smalling, Jones.
No leader in there, Smalling/Jones both can't get ahead of bloody Phil Jagielka for England and both are still 'potential' rather than the finished article at all, Smalling particularly is afraid of the ball.
Evans I'm sure is decent but compare that to most other top teams options and it's pretty poor.
Koscielny and Mertesacker are both comfortably better.
Both of them are still potential cause they have been moved from position to position and they're both CBs, Jones even played in midfield. Compared to top teams and they're not that good but they not as bad as some put it, even some United fans.
And if LVG will make them a formidable unit who will complain.
Evans is very good imo, not just decent and not prone to brain farts so often like he used to be.
Love it. You actually think the idea Vertonghen is better than any of Jones/Evans/Smalling is worthy of a "jeez" and that Evans is "definitely" better. You'd be laughed at by most neutrals.
Erm, he didn't even play that much last season. When he did he was at left-back. The same is true of Jones and Smalling? Sure, of course it is and its a valid reason. Both would be better if they consistently played in their position of strength, what's your point?
He had one poor season where we had two different managers, no balance in the team and the likes of Dawson supporting him. He also had major injury issues; as soon as he was back he was chucked in out of position whilst not fully fit in a dysfunctional side. It's utterly stupid to judge him off a few very poor games last season. You're also over exaggerating how poor he was, a nonstop calamity? He was nowhere near the worst in our backline. He was poor yes, but our defence DID look more solid with him in there.
He was bloody brilliant in his first season and his class is still evident. Get him back playing a consistent position and he'll be right back up there as one of the best in the league.
Mertesacker is not better than him at all. Koscielny is the superior defender. However, if Vertonghen can get back to his 2012-2013 form then there isn't much in it.
'You'd be laughed at by the neutrals.'
Because he was very good that season indeed and like many young players has since not continued to deliver on his promise. Different situation with Vertonghen entirely.
He didn't deserve YPOTY award though, whereas Vertonghen easily merited his place.
Yeah, I'm sure most neutrals would piss themselves if I told them I rated Vertonghen higher than Mertesacker. Before last season Mertesacker was one of the biggest jokes in the league and the subject of numerous taunts about his total lack of any pace whatsoever. He had a good season and Vertonghen had a poor one for numerous reasons, doesn't make Mertesacker the best player.Just saying defenders become a tad overrated because they can attack a bit...
That's fair enough but its pretty much undeniable how good he was in 2012-2013. Plenty of people (Not just Spurs fans) said he was the 2nd best defender in the league after Kompany and the best that year.
He called them a "bit dodgy" and said that individually Vertonghen was superior to them, I don't think that is harsh. You can't say Smalling/Jones aren't a bit dodgy at this stage. It's not awful but it's not exactly an area of strength for United either.
Have you actually seen any United fan on here describe Evans as world class and/or the best CB in the world?
Because i haven't.
For the record i wouldn't want Vertongen at United either. Not because i don't think he's a good player, he is a good player i like him but i just don't think he's much if at all better than the defenders we already have. More importantly hes nowhere near good enough to justify dealing with Levy. For us to get Vertongen we would likely have to pay 50-60% more than hes worth and you wouldn't get him until very late in august. From a United view point i don't think it would be worth the hassle.
I was clearly messing around. No they haven't, I think a few overrate him quite a bit though. You're pretty much right about Levy and he wouldn't be worth it, I was just taking the piss.
Fair enough mate. I suspected you were but on here sometimes you never know
Some probably do overrate him myself included as i think hes a cracking player, but it is a United forum after all. Most fans overrate their own players do they not ? It also might seem like some overrate Evans because they spend so much time defending him from some United fans who criminally underrate the guy.
Levy has been great for spurs in that regard, without him being a horrible bastard to deal with United & others would have just cherry picked Spurs over the last 5 years for any player they pleased (although Real still do but they do that to everyone). I think Fergie said as much in his book, that Levy was such a pain to deal with that they decided it wasn't really worth the hassle to deal with Spurs again.
Vertonghen was the defensive laughing stock of last season, whilst Mertesacker and Koscielny formed one of the league's best defensive partnerships. So yeah, the neutrals would be a bit amused that you rate the former higher.
I mean, you're not exactly selling him to me by saying he was good two seasons ago but has been getting worse...
Harsh to say Vertonghen was the laughing stock last season. Many would say Evra or Demichelis. Kyle Walker was funny to watch too. Probably some others that I can't think of right now. Even Kompany provided his share of funny moments. And he has less excuse.
And I don't see how Mertersacker being part of one of the best partnerships matters all that much. Vertonghen played a substantial number of games at left back and is surrounded by a number of dross team-mates and managers who just generally don't have a clue.
And in the same way Everton have had similar (or better) defensive records to/than us in recent years, how many on here would use that to claim Distin or Jagielka as better than Evans?
Ok, a laughing stock.
As a side point, I don't think Evra really was except amongst United fans. His defending had dropped massively from what it once was but he was still decent enough going forward that his overall rep didn't take too much of a knock. My best mate, a gooner, was surprised when I started slagging off how bad he'd been at one point last season, and he's quite on the ball with his football know-how. He had Evra down as a somewhat diminished force with an Aaron Lennon problem, nothing worse than that.
Vertonghen is average
Laughing stock? No he wasn't. Dawson was. He was not a "laughing stock", he wasn't at his best. Stop over exaggerating how poor he was - I watched him last season, he had a bad season, he wasn't the less good David Luiz you're making him out to be.
Yes they did, doesn't make Mertesacker individually a better player. Koscielny is the 2nd best defender in the league, Mertesacker is a good defender and whilst Gibbs isn't amazing he's far better than Rose and Sagna is much more solid than Walker. As a collective Arsenal's defense was much better, just like Kompany is better than any Bayern defender individually but City's defense isn't as strong overall.
Getting worse? No, he was brilliant in his FIRST season and then had a poor season due to circumstances he couldn't really control. One poor season does not mean he's getting worse, especially when you consider how many factors you have to take in to account: he was injured for very large stretches, we had no real first choice backline, he was stuck out at LB most of the time and worst of all he had to play among players with no defensive sense whatsoever. Not sure how you expect him to walk in as a left back to that and be extremely solid, after returning from injury. Then you have the situation with two different managers...it was a calamity of a season for us and Poch should return a bit of order, hopefully.
Like I've said, he was the best defender in the league in his first season here performances wise. People are so quick to turn on a player based on a bit of poor form and don't actually consider all the factors. I remember not so long ago Koscielny was a joke of a player.
What a load of old shite.
What a bigger load of old shite.
Who are these people? 'Neutrals'?
Yeah you're right, your CB options are the envy of the premiership and Evans is the best thing since sliced bread.
Please explain what out of what I just said was "shite". Are Smalling and Jones not second to Phil Jagielka for England? Are they not still potential? Is Smalling not very poor on the ball?
Or is Evans up there with the best in the league?
It's pretty obvious. People that aren't United fans or Arsenal fans who think our squad is championship standard.
I laughed.
Evans is better than Vertonghen, and Roy Hodgson picks the England team. Both Smalling and Jones are better than Phil Jagielka.
Quit being butthurt because people don't rate the defender who played like a clown last year as highly as you do.
"But, but, but he was out of position and AVB...blah blah blah".
I don't think you're championship standard, and I'd have Vertonghen before Vermaelen, but not at the cost of what we already have. Evans is woefully underrated, both by United fans and by people who barely watch us/him play but think it's great fun to single him out.
He's made less mistakes in his last 3 seasons than Vertonghen did last year, yet it's ridiculous that he's even considered nearly as good as him? Jog on.
I laughed.
Good. Now go get Vertonghen to show Jonny Evans his medals.
Vertonghen had a poor season last time around in a team under upheaval just like lot of our players did too infact, but he has shown before that he is a Quality player.
And despite playing all over the place in a struggling Spurs team at times with far from ideal partners, no he wasn't a laughing stock by any means. And he was still better than Evra for whatever reason that comparison came up.
Don't get the Mertesacker being better than him thing either. He clearly isn't.
And despite playing all over the place in a struggling Spurs team at times with far from ideal partners, no he wasn't a laughing stock by any means. And he was still better than Evra for whatever reason that comparison came up.
Don't get the Mertesacker being better than him thing either. He clearly isn't.
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