Are you trying to compare the pull of United compared to the pull of Everton? It's insane and you know so. And no one here is denying that many non-English players would go for Barca and Real as the first choice. There is no shame in admitting it since they are a bigger pull 'cause of a variety of reasons, including the weather and culture. I was just pointing out that not being chosen by Real or Barca is no shame since they have an abundance of riches in that part of the field. I took exception to someone saying that McCarthy is the same level as Herrera. Also, maybe I misunderstood your initial point. I thought you had used the Real/Barca example to say that he is not a good enough player.
James McCarthy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Are you trying to compare the pull of United compared to the pull of Everton? It's insane and you know so. And no one here is denying that many non-English players would go for Barca and Real as the first choice. There is no shame in admitting it since they are a bigger pull 'cause of a variety of reasons, including the weather and culture. I was just pointing out that not being chosen by Real or Barca is no shame since they have an abundance of riches in that part of the field. I took exception to someone saying that McCarthy is the same level as Herrera. Also, maybe I misunderstood your initial point. I thought you had used the Real/Barca example to say that he is not a good enough player.
Vidal is not "sexy attack minded". He will add a lot of steel to our midfield. And I would like McCarthy here as the heir to Carrick.
Really? I see a lot of similarities between McCarthy and Carrick but I also see some key differences, such as McCarthy's superior mobility, stamina and aggression.
Right now McCarthy is the same age Carrick was during his first season at Tottenham. Was Carrick really a superior performer at that age? Not as I remember it.
I should probably point out that I don't rate Carrick as highly as some (very good though he is). I certainly wouldn't agree with @Sweet Square when he says that Carrick is in the second tier of midfielders, though that discussion will just lead us off in a tangent.
McCarthy is nowhere near Carrick in terms of ability to run a game. He would compliment Carrick really well but don't think he will over take Carrick in his ability to read/run a game from deep.
No i am not implying that Everton are as big of pull as United i am just saying that Unless you are Madrid there will always be a team that a player will chose over your team when it comes down to it. To be honest i haven't watched no where near enough of Herrera to say if he is good enough for Barca or Madrid but considering they have both just payed 30 million for a midfielder each and never shown interest in Herrera then maybe he isn't. I also think they would of preferred to get a Spanish player as well if they could.
McCarthy is like a light-weight Keane if anything. He does not have Carrick's passing range or ability to control the tempo of a game.
Only 403 mores page till this catches Vidal 
I agree he doesn't have Carricks passing range but i do believe he can go on to be able to control the tempo of the game.
Barca got a very good player in Rakitic for a very very decent price. They would have had to trigger Herrera's buyout clause and they may not have considered him to be worth that much hassle. And Kroos is definitely a top top quality player, who again went for less than Herrera. Also, no one here would claim that Kroos is not better than Herrera. So they both got top players cheaper than what they would have had to pay for Herrera. So them not going for him is not a slight on him.
Carrick was always destined to go to the top of the English game. He was very accomplished at West Ham as a teenager, and at Spurs he continued to flourish. I remember this game and thinking at the time that he was the midfielder to sign in the Premier League.
As for Carrick now, well his game has developed (as all intelligent footballers do) yet his importance to the side never diminished. Granted, he was poor last season compared to his form of yesteryear, but the entire squad underperformed so I don't see why it's fair to single out Carrick. You could sense van Gaal's disappointment when Carrick injured his ankle a few weeks ago: he'd have been right up van Gaal's street in terms of midfield options.
He may go on to do that. But so far I have seen nothing in his game to suggest so. He is like a terrier who will hassle the opponents and help his attackers by distributing it simply and quickly. Something we hoped Cleverley would have become. But Carrick is the person you look at to control how your whole team ticks and plays.
With Barry and Martinez teaching him that side of the game I believe he will go on to be able to do it. McCarthy has the passing ability to be able to play that role it's just that because of his physical attributes it would currently be a waste of his talents to employ him in that role. I think you will see him being converted more to that position as he gets older.
He's a good player but you'd end up paying silly money after Everton got him for 13m only last season and him being a pivotal player in that side. You could spend 5-10m more and get a truly top player for that kind of cash. Everton would rip you off.
Martinez is not selling his golden boy unless for silly money anyway so I'm not worried at all.
surely you as an Everton fan should be telling us to **** off rather than talking us into buying him?
personally, id be happy with Carvalho
though if we get Vidal id still be delighted as obviously he is truly world class
I'd like that. Get Vidal in and then try and give them one of Fellaini/Cleverley in a swap for McCarthy.
Underrated player, would be an excellent addition, the only problem would be Everton themselves.
Ball park figure would be around the 30m mark...
Ball park figure would be around the 30m mark...
10m + Fellaini
Who?
I would be delighted with McCarthy, purely as I got him for cheap in my fantasy draft last summer (I got McCarthy + £15m in exchange for Foster....cracking bargain).
despite the fact that Fellaini cost us double last year what Everton paid for McCarthy, and despite me wanting McCarthy far more than Fellaini at the time, I'd still fecking take that deal now.
Luis Gustavo. Wouldn't even be worth more, either.
Yeah, I'd agree that he definitely doesn't have Carrick's passing range or ability to control a game. If we were planning to use either in the way we've been using Carrick for the last couple of seasons (basically as the sum of our entire midfield) then Carrick would definitely be the better player.
Personally though I've always preferred the idea of Carrick acting as a foil to another more creative midfielder rather than taking up that role himself. If we're talking about that secondary role then I think McCarthy could prove to be a superior player over time.
Or, to put it another way, I think McCarthy would be a better fit for someone like Herrera than Carrick would.
Kroos just went for 30 million euros for god sake, Mccarthy would cost significantly more than that and is no where near is good or proven. What is Vidal currently at? 40-45m maybe? That's a bit more for a much better player proven at the top level and one of the very best in the world.
There's players out there, sure you pay more in wages but you can afford that surely as one of the biggest clubs in the world. He's a good midfielder, an upgrade on what you have but for the money he'd cost you'd expect someone on the level of the best, which he isn't.
He'd cost a lot less actually. Wolfsburg would probably want 20 million tops for Gustavo whereas I reckon Everton would want upwards of 30 million for a player who was excellent for them last season and cost a significant fee in the first place, take in to account he's only just joined them as well and yeah you're looking at an inflated fee.
Why would that be so?
Top of the afternoon to you all. Mcarthy would be a decent addition, but iv'e seen some caftards liken him to Xavi, Iniesta. I know he's Irish and a very good footballer, but come on, for fecks sake.
He's 27 years old, I can hardly see them asking for much more. How much do you think they'd want for him?
Tier 1
Toure, Ramsey, Matic.
Tier 2
Gerrard, Herrera, Schneiderlin, McCarthy.
In my view.
Gerrard/Matic are at the upper and lower echelon of each.
Toure, Ramsey, Matic.
Tier 2
Gerrard, Herrera, Schneiderlin, McCarthy.
In my view.
Gerrard/Matic are at the upper and lower echelon of each.
Kroos had 1 year left on his contract
I dont see many "truly top players" knocking about for 18m
Wolfsburg isn't cash strapped so I can't see them letting go of Gustavo for anything less than his release clause which is reported to be around £25m.
I agree. What midfielders would be better at the role next to Hererra in this league? Matic and and Fernandinho and I'd say McCarthy is fairly close to Fernandindo. Schneiderlin would be a similar level too and would be the better value for money now. I'd take either for 25m.
Kroos had 1 year left on his contract
I dont see many "truly top players" knocking about for 18m
When did I say there were? I said that if you fecking pay 5-10 more than what you'd pay for Mccarthy you COULD get a truly top player. Paying 30-35m minimum for him is ridiculous when guys like Vidal are valued at around 45.
Kroos was just an example of a top player acquired for a much lower fee. If he hadn't had a year left Bayern would've probably got around 35 million or so for him, which is around what you'd be purchasing Mccarthy for. That's a lot of money for him.
Barca got Rakitic for around 20 million Euro's for feck sake, just this window. Chelsea signed bloody Cesc Fabregas for 30 million and these are both just this window and off the top of my head. You really don't think top quality is out there? Chelsea also signed back Matic for £22m, again significantly less than what Mccarthy would cost. He'd be overpriced, simple as that really.
Just like Raul Meireles?
Don't be an arse - no-one's claimed any such thing. He's a very disciplined holding CM with a decent technique and good mentality. Borderline top 4 IMO like Schneiderlin.
It's always a pleasure to speak to you Pete, good luck with the new season sir.
The bolded part needs no explanation. Mcarthy is ok, and can do a job. Seriously if you had money to spend, would he be One of your First signings?. He isn't fashionable, i agree, but he isn't a world beater either.
McCarthy would have been a good buy last seaspn for 15M as a squad player.He is not worth 25M to 30M though.I don't think he is good enough for the first team and we shouldn't be spending more than 20M on a rotation player.
If we get average luck with injuries we'll win it. I think Wenger wants a bit more from his CMs, hence the pursuit (doomed) of Lars Bender.
I'm not bothered about Arsenals chances of winning the league. What level do you think Mcarthy is at, on a world football level scale?. It would help the Irish bunch on here, for sure.
Nobody is really claiming McCarthy is that good though. "Has the potential to be slightly better than Carrick" is as extreme as it's really gone and even that was disputed. Hardly an insanely outlandish level of hype.
And, again, it isn't just the Irish posters that rate him. We just happen to have seen more of him than a lot of other posters.
And, again, it isn't just the Irish posters that rate him. We just happen to have seen more of him than a lot of other posters.
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