Pogba at least was still among the better players on the team for the majority of his time here. Sancho's contribution is ... slightly greater than Donny's? World of difference. Sancho could turn out to be a bigger flop than Maguire.
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Sure, but my point remains. Any other big team would have cut their losses after a year or two, yet we still have people talking about needing certain players/systems to "unlock" the potential of a player. A good player should still be good even if he's playing in a bad team or a good team, for instance with my Pogba example, you could have replaced Pogba with quite a few players and we would have been better for it because they would have fit better into the league/team. I've said before in my opinion Sancho isn't doing anything differently to what I see in the highlight videos people post from his time at Dortmund. His problem is that the defenders in England are the biggest, strongest, fastest etc, and he can't cope with that hence why he's better in Europe than in the league. He's a lot like Depay in that way.
Yeah the problem we tend to have as a selling club is we never capitalize on when our players might be overvalued. Last summer is a great example, Chelsea was going mad spending and was interested in Maguire, we could have sold him for a monster fee most likely and gone laughing to the bank. Lingard is another example, we could have sold him to West Ham for 20m+ after his loan there but held on for some bizarre reason only to have him leave on a free. Sancho is someone I think could still command close to what we paid from certain clubs, and if offered it I think we'd be smart to take it.
We hold on to players for far too long under this hope that "maybe next season they'll finally come good"
Yep, without actually having evidence of why they might "come good" in the first place. It's sort of what I'm worried about with Antony, as everyone is repeating the same rhetoric we heard for Sancho but Antony shows even less signs of all of the sudden flipping a switch and turning into a top class RW. Yet we'll hang on to him for far too long and repeat the same song and dance even if he isn't good next year.
And all the others would have less space because they'd let Sancho have the ball. Anyone would look "better" in City's team, but put too many of those in and the team isn't very good any more.
Always. Even in this thread we're seeing it. Two crap seasons but next season is definitely the one.
Oh I know, it wasn't an "attack" on your post, I just hate seeing stats and went off on one
We signed one of the best LCM's in the world and tried to play him in a double pivot. We tried to turn Pogba into a player he never was. Even then, he had some very good performances for us. It was a shit season overall, but he was easily our best player in 18/19. The OT crowd still booed the shit out of him. He was one of our better performers in most of his seasons here as well. His main issue was being injured for 3 months in his latter seasons.
Pogba is nothing like Sancho. Pogba actually performed well at points. Sancho has not performed at all. Sancho isn't being played out of position. He's just shite. We're going to find ourselves in the exact same positon next summer. Sancho will massively underperform, but some people will say he needs a further season.
Sell him for 50-60m. We can always gamble on him becoming good and risk seeing him mostly on the bench for a full season losing value. Sell him while he's worth something. I'm not convinced he has the strength to become world class.
I'm not saying that Pogba was as bad as Sancho. It's a simple comparison that the same things that were said about Pogba are now being said about Sancho, ie. we need a different player/tactic/position to unlock his potential. Pogba wasn't the right choice back then just as Sancho isn't the right choice for us now. We should do what every other big club would and cut our losses and move on. I don't understand what it is that I said that has made people get defensive about Pogba. I never compared talents or effectiveness, only the similarity in people saying that "we need to unlock the talent". A good player should play well no matter if their teams are good or bad.
Think he may do a martial and out stay his welcome.
What?
Antony has shown far more in a United shirt than Sancho. Before his injury towards the end of the season, I actually thought that Antony was starting to perform really well more consistently rather than in flashes. He also works far harder off the ball than Sancho so even when he's playing shite, he's still doing somehting.
Sell Sancho and buy Kvaradona, he will bring the glory days back 
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.Pogba was routinely voted motm on this website. Outside of indulging in revisionism, Pogba and Sancho at United are not comparable.
In fairness, Pogba was also ruined by injuries. In unfairness, move him 3 foot one way or the other and suddenly he "wasn't in his best position", and he became another problem rather than the galvanising leader we needed. Huge opportunity cost there.
Agreed.
Right, yeah this is all conjecture though and the reality is neither have shown anything resembling a good level consistently for us. Antony's underlying metrics are all quite poor as well for this year. The difference is Sancho had shown prior that he COULD be one of the best creative wingers on the continent with another club, while Antony never showed that level previously. And "working hard off the ball" should be a bonus, not something you gladly pay 80m for in an attacker. Point being I don't think either is the long term answer at the position, which is also why I'm bullish on Amad's prospects and hope he is kept in the squad this season.
We dont seem very lucky with Dortmund players.
Id give him one more season but he may well be another ex Dortmund player to be moved on.
Id give him one more season but he may well be another ex Dortmund player to be moved on.
That may be a true statement but I don't recall it that way. What I recall are posts match after match in awe of his abundant talent but lamenting his lack of end product.
And yet, he was routinely deemed to be our best performer. Somehow the farther we got from the games the worse these praised games became.
It could well be that Pogba was our best "performer" but still one of our least productive players. The stunts he pulled off with the ball were incredible.
Paul Pogba was one of the most naturally gifted athletes I've ever seen on a football pitch. And his skills were pretty incredible too. But I really do recall constant, and fully deserved, criticism for his lack of application in important ways, in defense and in attack.
How does that work?
Think of performer as in a circus performer. He can juggle, make an opponent look like a fool with the turn of his body and produce a silky spinneroonie but then doesn't have the energy to produce anything productive out of it
So Pogba was voted by Redcafe motm or in the top 3 more than anyone else because he was a circus performer. Noted.
Luck or we just haven't chosen the right personnel.
I'm sure Lewandowski, Gundogan or Haaland would of been good transfers.
Seriously?
Yes. How does it work, your best performer is also one of your least productive, how does it work?
Those players made much more intelligent career choices when they left Dortmund. Sancho chose a club which was dysfunctional and a bit oldfashioned at the time of his arrival.
I think now that you've more or less sorted this out, you'll see a much higher success rate. Unfortunately, this might have been too late for Sancho. I haven't seen any United games recently but judging by the opinions in this thread, he may very well be burned and needs a fresh start elsewhere.
With hindsight Pogba's first couple of years were pretty good really, not world record transfer level but certainly acceptable. Body has been breaking down since he was about 23/24 though.
Sancho has never had a 8/10 game for Utd let alone matched Pogba's best displays.
Sancho has never had a 8/10 game for Utd let alone matched Pogba's best displays.
It broke down in 2019 when he was 26 but yeah he still had spells before his last season that were far better than anything we've seen from Sancho.
I'm not sure any of our failed signings can be compared to Sancho. He unlike any of them never really had a period on the pitch when fans got overly excited and thought he was exactly what we've been missing. He has been sort of anti-climatic signing since his first appearance.
Sell him, but after selling Maguire and Martial, those two are even crappier.
I am almost sure we will see a higher success rate in terms of transfers, but at the end of the day, in the current market, most of the players do not have the luxury to choose the next club, it's mostly a matter of who offers more money.
Very underwhelming first 2 seasons for him. Have fans turned against him? Has Ten Hag had enough? I’d say not yet. There is quality in him which was shown at Dortmund. I feel he hasn’t found his identity at united. He’s only 23 so still has room to develop to the player United want. But a worrying thought is him almost never taking on players. This season is going to be very critical for him at united and maybe his career
We'll be here saying this same thing in one year's time
i know that’s what we said last year also, but like I said, this season is critical for him.
I think we'd be lucky to get £40M. And our negotiating team (as bad as they are), will struggle to get £30M for him.
Sometimes things just don't work out and really Sancho should leave. The pressure of playing for MUFC has clearly taken its toll on him.
I have no ill will towards him - I think for his own career, he needs to search for a club that allows him to play to his strength and not put so much pressure on him.
A move back to Dortmund would be brilliant for all parties, I think.
The one hope I have for him is that he seemed to play better as a RW - crossing in a bit like Valencia without the work rate.
If the unnamed returns and performs well as an inverted forward - Sancho as a more direct winger might be useful in the RW if Antony doesn’t up his game.
Amad is supposed to be more Wide attacking midfielder -
so him, Sancho and the unnamed would give us different/wide variety of types of RW’s.
For someone who has been below average during his whole career at United - he has been utelised a lot (like the FA Cup final when he had Garanacho available) and in different positions under Ten Hag; so I’m struggling to see the manager just instantly selling him either unless he gets a offer he can’t refuse.
If the unnamed returns and performs well as an inverted forward - Sancho as a more direct winger might be useful in the RW if Antony doesn’t up his game.
Amad is supposed to be more Wide attacking midfielder -
so him, Sancho and the unnamed would give us different/wide variety of types of RW’s.
For someone who has been below average during his whole career at United - he has been utelised a lot (like the FA Cup final when he had Garanacho available) and in different positions under Ten Hag; so I’m struggling to see the manager just instantly selling him either unless he gets a offer he can’t refuse.
Yup
I would sell him at a loss. He hasnt got it in him to play for a top club in the PL.
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