Was watching with my brother and Dad last night and it was an almost harmonious "Feck off" when he pulled that.
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Was watching with my brother and Dad last night and it was an almost harmonious "Feck off" when he pulled that.
In general how have they failed to spot the slowness of Maguire and Sancho. Or that AWB isn’t technically good enough. These glaring flaws should have been picked up on.
I'm afraid it's low-key nepotism and not so high standards in terms of expectations from staff members. Neither Ole nor many others having a say in our transfer dealings were really recruited on merit. Transfer-making back then was never professional enough and levels below other top teams.
Here we go.
Probably didn’t scout at all, just read ‘94% take ons’ or something to that effect.
I really wanted us to sign Sancho for years but as time went on, it was starting to become clear that there were question marks and sadly, those questions have been answered emphatically so far. Get rid.
Back in the summer of 2021, my thought was that both City and United went for the wrong player. Sancho looked a much better fit for Pep's pass and move tactics, starting from a wide position to link up with others, get in good positions in the half-spaces and use his nimble skills to carve an opening. Whereas Grealish, who likes to get on the ball and work it out on the spur of the moment, on the other hand, seemed like the player Solskjaer needed whenever the quick route from Bruno to Rashford wasn't on. I won't say that Graelish has set the world alight at the Etihad, but he's found a role in this City team. I'm not going to defend Sancho, either, as he's been a disappointment for us. But he's continuing to fail in a side which still cries out for sheer individualism to get the job done. Just out of curiosity... let's say that City put 20 million on the table and the prospect to get his 350 grand p/w off our wage bill, would you give him to Pep?
never been to UK or manchester, but i'll make the trip & drive him to City myself.
No. Would ask at least 35-40m. English, homegrown, marketable... They can afford it, they have the money. F... them.
But Pep would not want him back, he wasn't crying when he left. Maybe he saw somwthing we are seeing now.
I guess Bundesliga worked well for him because PL seems to be more intense, more physical, and perhaps too fast for him.
He'd do well at West Ham. Maybe we could swap Moyes for Sancho?
Sancho hasn't worked out here, but Pep has let plenty of good players go previously. I don't think that's the litmus test/corroboration you're presenting it as
I reckon with a bit more time, moyes could get us right up for it in the conference league. Would love Jagielka as an assistant for helping Martinez adjust to the physicality of the league too.
Fair enough, i guess. That's the honest view to have, if you don't rate a player at all. And we've shot our selves in the foot several times in the past with our "protect the value" policy.
It's a hypothetical, obviously it's not going to happen. But if people don't rate him at all, why not, at least, get him off the books? If WHU, for example, inquire about Maguire and are willing to cover a chunk of his wages on the premise that they'll not pay a transfer fee - and Maguire agrees - i would be more than glad to let him go. I presume most fans on here would feel the same. Thus, the question. Is Sancho as irredeemable as the likes of Maguire?
As for Pep, he's an elite manager whose system guarantees success. There are very few in each generation. This can simplify things for the owner, DOF, CEO etc., the same way Ferguson used to make everyone's job easier at United by assuming full responsibility for the comings and goings. They basically strengthened their main rivals for the title this season, that's close to ridiculous. Trust in the system allows you to do that. Fergie did it with Pogba when our best option behind the 35+ Scholes/Giggs was Tom fecking Cleverley.
But we don't have that atm. And it's clear as daylight that - with his own weaknesses as player included - he is not a good match for a team that has only one gear in it. Do you let him go to a team designed to pass its way into the opposition box (City, Arsenal even) and double down on your existing team strengths by replacing him with another player or do you try to add another dimension to your overall game by giving him something to work with on the pitch?
If Sancho was getting stuck in and working hard on and off the ball( like Antony), his lack of form would be tolerable. But to see him stroll around and contribute feck all, it feels like his time is up if he cant change this by the end of season. ETH may not give him more leeway. He has already been shown way too much patience than most players get
This guy simply doesn't have the mental toughness or physicality/speed to make it for a top tier EPL team. I haven't even seen a glimpse of what was promised coming over from Dortmund. If the Qataris take over, I hope that we cut our losses with him and bring in someone more dynamic.
This kinda left my mind. I remember him turning his back and ducking down on a shot. I can't find the video but here's the pic.
I'm not sure which is worse
This is the wrong way to use percentiles.... or at least, reading the data.
A club like United ultimately needs players who are in the 90th percentile for the key stats for their roles. For Sancho, that is things like progressive passing, progressive carries, shot creation, expected assists. Bruno for example, 97th/98th/99th percentile for many creation stats, low to mid 90s for plenty of others. Clear quality player. Rashford in the 90's for shooting/being a goal threat from wide. Licha in the 80's and 90s for plenty of defensive, passing and possession statistics.
Being a 75th percentile attacker is being not good enough for a top club, who needs the 90th percentile players.
To add - Garnacho is an elite youngster, and it shows in the stats. 80th percentile in shooting stats already, mid to high 90's in terms of progressive carries, carries into the attacking third, into the box, take ons, touches in the box, etc. He looks like an elite 18 year old in the stats, but in the stats you can also see he is raw in some ways and that tends to be rounded over time. But He is doing it in the prem from 18. Sancho had those elite numbers in the Bundesliga... but hasn't done it for United, and I do think mentally he isn't brave enough or confident enough to handle those expectations.
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With the way that German teams capitulated in front of English teams in Europe (Dortmund even threw it away against Chelsea, FFS!), we have a serious case about how that league turning into a joke that teaches vanilla football rather than preparing minnows for manhood. Right now I would rate the Ligue 1 and even Serie A ahead of the Bundesliga if I'm seeking players who can survive the demands of the Prem.
This. I was telling that to a local football pundit from Montreal (he's also a red) as we watched the game, and he agrees that Sancho embodies all the jokes and tropes we used to dish on footballers from continental Europe not cutting it in the Prem.
Ha! Brilliant strategy from the Visit Manchester tourism authority, how to get millions of people over to crowd fund a player sale and transport.
I have to laugh or I'd cry. I've seen some transfers just go wrong but I think this is the worst I've seen in 40 years of watching.
I think he'll need to go because negativity can really start affecting the team morale.
Our scouts recommended the young developmental signing Amad Diallo and Solskjaer/Phelan went with Sancho. And when the Sancho deal fell through in 2020 (due to cost), Woodward then turned to the recommendation of the scouts and John Murtough did the deal for Amad, due to Murtough being the head of youth development and a youngster like Amad falling under his remit.This was briefly discussed on a podcast that discuss structural issues surrounding top level football clubs.
Our scouts also told Woodward not to sign Harry Maguire in 2018, when Mourinho wanted him. And the scouts conclusion was that Maguire wasn't any better than the CBs that United already had at the club. A year later, Woodward ignores the scouts and signs Maguire for Solskjaer and Phelan, with Phelan being Maguire's former manager at Hull City. And this was reported by Daniel Taylor who was then working for the Guardian.
He's had far less good games for us than even likes of Maguire has had. Scary how bad he's become.
Will probably go out on loan next season at the very most. Nobody is going to offer him a way out with a permanent deal.
We really have to stop giving out these ridiculous contracts to players that don't deserve it.
Will probably go out on loan next season at the very most. Nobody is going to offer him a way out with a permanent deal.
We really have to stop giving out these ridiculous contracts to players that don't deserve it.
Ole and Phelan were both football dinosaurs. Damning stuff that.
Many on here were so happy Phelan was brought back, but I thought it was nonsensical he was.
It’s getting hard to defend him, Mentally went in the first 5 minutes. In some ways feel sorry for him because hes shown signs of frustration at himself in previous games but he kept going and trying. Sometimes when you’re in a slump of bad form it just seems relentless and you over think the simplest of things and it just snowballls in to every aspect of your game. Looks bereft of confidence and honestly ETH probably has to pull him or let him play through hoping he finds confidence and form somewhere.
The issue with Thursday was in the first 5-10 minutes some things didn’t come off for him, poor first touch and so on and he just gave up and retreated in to his shell. Not sure how you come back from that or if anything can be done at this point.
The issue with Thursday was in the first 5-10 minutes some things didn’t come off for him, poor first touch and so on and he just gave up and retreated in to his shell. Not sure how you come back from that or if anything can be done at this point.
We're in agreement there. I was just showing his stats aren't as bad as people would think.
I am getting more and more convinced that Sancho isn't the right fit in this league.
His stats is as bad as Sanchez at United, who was a big flop. But at least Sanchez works lots harder than Sancho. And his performance is quite meh for most of his time here.
Perhaps we should try to offer Dortmund 70m plus Sancho for Bellingham?
His stats is as bad as Sanchez at United, who was a big flop. But at least Sanchez works lots harder than Sancho. And his performance is quite meh for most of his time here.
Perhaps we should try to offer Dortmund 70m plus Sancho for Bellingham?
Sigh
What makes you think Bellingham would work out?
Jesus fecking Christ. Thank feck I missed that, probably would have broken my TV
Nothing has really changed at United then because Im pretty sure Ten Hag over ruled the scouts plenty this summer
I suppose we can at least see that Bellingham has looked impressive for England, which was perhaps the one real red flag in respect of Sancho, so perhaps more suited for top level football?
He hasn’t had a single 90 min good performance.
He just performs for an occasional 4 mins in an occasional match & sometimes it can win us the match.
It’s why I know he won’t work - Antony has at least performed for a good 70 mins in a game, so he can improve on that to build some consistency.
Sancho is a nothing player for most of the game.
I will always blame the fan base that wanted him for his signing and his hype.
Only because this fan base have ago at much better players themselves and act like they never make mistakes ever.
He just performs for an occasional 4 mins in an occasional match & sometimes it can win us the match.
It’s why I know he won’t work - Antony has at least performed for a good 70 mins in a game, so he can improve on that to build some consistency.
Sancho is a nothing player for most of the game.
I will always blame the fan base that wanted him for his signing and his hype.
Only because this fan base have ago at much better players themselves and act like they never make mistakes ever.
I wanted us to sign Sancho, as we needed a RW, and he was excellent in that position for Dortmund, playing a very similar style to the role I’d expect of him at United.
Now, it’s utterly frustrating for me that we seem to have spent two seasons more or less playing him anywhere but RW. That’s the role he was needed for and where his skillset is most useful. However, I acknowledge that, even on the rare occasion when we have played him there, he hasn’t been any better.
Part of it seems to be that he doesn’t have as much pace/acceleration as I thought but mostly it seems to be a lack of confidence/drive. I still have not completely given up hope but it’s hard to see what can fix him, given the efforts made this season don’t seem to have helped.
He hasn't over-ruled anyone but has infact been working with the scouts like Mayorga and Wells who have replaced Bout and Lawlor. But there was reports that ten Hag wanted Ziyech but was over-ruled by the scouts. And there's also been reports that ten Hag has informed the heads of scouting to assess the likes of Timber and Kudus, which didn't happen under Mourinho or Solskjaer who relied on their personal scouts. Big difference.
I was angry at him at the start of the match when we had a promising turnover and a dangerous attacking situation and he released the ball too hastily and messed it up. Clearly panicked about the situation and couldn't handle the pressure. Elite teams have killers in those situations.
The lad is done. He's miles behind Rashford and Garnacho on the left, and Antony on the right. Doesn't have the balls or workrate to play more centrally. How we manage his exit will be key now, because it won't be easy to get rid of him. But we must.
The lad is done. He's miles behind Rashford and Garnacho on the left, and Antony on the right. Doesn't have the balls or workrate to play more centrally. How we manage his exit will be key now, because it won't be easy to get rid of him. But we must.
That's the truth of it. Not one single match with a consistent good performance. Not one.
Don't recall a player at United as soft as Sancho. His complete lack of impact at International level should have been a warning sign in retrospect.
I said this in October, nothing has changed.
It actually goes under the radar how bad a signing he's been while other players get all the attention.
We wanted Sancho the summer he went to Dortmund so I’d be truly fascinated to see from what evidence you’ve deduced he wasn’t recommended by the scouts and that instead they suggested Amad to be the starting right winger to go straight into the first team 3 years ago.
Solskjaer had a personal scout along with Mike Phelan as his adviser who he worked with independently from the club's scouts when it came to recruitment, which is well documented, and both Solskjaer and Phelan were seen several times at football stadiums scouting players. Solskjaer even went on record and said that it took 5 scouts to veto him for a deal to fall through. At other clubs the opinion of just the head of recruitment is enough.
Yes we did try to sign Sancho from City when he was 17 before he left for Dortmund. But that was a Sancho who was valued at considerably less than the player that developed into a first team player at Dortmund.
And I never said the scouts recommended Amad to be a starting 11 player straight away and I quite clearly described him as a player who was recommended as a developmental type signing for the RW. And if Solskjaer had even attempted to try and develop Amad for the inverted RW role, rather than sign another left sided attacker, we would've saved a considerable amount of money.
Not setting the league on fire yet. We should not repeat mistakes of old by handing out contracts like this going forward. Doubt he would freely walk away from a weekly fortune anytime soon to save his career. Besides, who would carry that salary and pay a high transfer fee on top? It's bad business and were stuck to it. Best hope is he can better himself or that we cut loose on a cheap if club sees no path forward.
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