We bought a false 9/#10 to enhance our attacking department. I don't see Zirkzee as an out and out striker. He is also not a very good header of the ball despite his size. Toney is much more of a profile of striker that we need.
Ivan Toney Pt.2 | Signs for Al Ahli
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
- Start date
- Status
Toney doesn't even have that great a record when you take out his penaltys (we would stick with Bruno I think)
40m is alot these days, seems to be a big PSR shift now, I'm sure Brentford would love to get 40m for him.
40m is alot these days, seems to be a big PSR shift now, I'm sure Brentford would love to get 40m for him.
How? What big teams play with an old fashioned forward like Toney?
You just posted that we need someone like Toney to hold up the ball, yet clearly Zirkzee is better than Toney at that job.
Now you’re pivoted to heading the ball, as though that’s something we desperately need in our striker? What ?
Think he's trying to say he wants someone you can play route one to if need be, and Zirkzee is poor at that because he's shit in the air. As is Hojlund to be fair.
Toney wins 46% of his aerial duels, Zirkzee 43% so….
Is that worth 40mil despite the dutchman being a better hold up player with the ball on the deck?
I dont rate Toney, so you're speaking to the wrong guy.
But playing a long ball to Zirkzee I don't think is playing to his strengths.
Playing a long ball to anyone isn’t playing to their strengths, and if it is, I’d prefer we move a long long way on from the Fellaini days.
Zirkzee and Toney do have similar aerial stats though, and Zirkzee has clearly been brought in to complement what Højlund lacks (27% aerial duels won being one of those areas).
I have no idea why anyone thinks Toney would then add something more to our attack.
Do you have Hojlunds aerial duel stats when he was in Italy? Curious to know
37.1% is what I'm seeing.
35% according to transfermarkt, who have Zirkzee down as 45% and Toney as 46%.
What Toney does do (likely due to playing for Brentford), is he ends up in double as many aerial duels per game.
I’m bookmarking this comment. I agree it sounds doubtful but if Toney actually signs I’ll expect you to live stream the procedure
@RobbieBernsI’m bookmarking this comment. I agree it sounds doubtful but if Toney actually signs I’ll expect you to live stream the procedure
Bookmark it, it’s never happening, I’d bet my caf account on it so bookmark this too.
• He’s simply not that good
• He’s 28 and we’ve targeted 25 and below all Summer
• He’s expensive
Only possibility of this ever happening this Summer would be if Brentford desperately want any fee and start offering him out for 15-20m; I’d still be doubtful of our interest then but with our injury issues a cheap deal near the end of the window for any striker may tempt us.
He’s not wrong thoughI’m bookmarking this comment. I agree it sounds doubtful but if Toney actually signs I’ll expect you to live stream the procedure
So Regulus Arcturus Black will see RobbieBerns ‘nut in the ocean’ and raise him his caf account. Not sure that’s an upgrade. But any more for any more?
FYI I also don’t think it’s happening or needed but the nut in the ocean comment made me chuckle.
FYI I also don’t think it’s happening or needed but the nut in the ocean comment made me chuckle.
We don’t have 40m
Nevermind 40m for someone who Brentford don’t pick and clearly don’t want anymore. They keep dropping his price from 100m, to 70m, to 50-60m and now 40m. They want him off the books. No thanks
Btw I think you guys will love Zirkzee when he gets going. Its like comparing Berbstov to Steve Bull
Its more about having alternatives mid game. Zirkzee having comparable stats to Toney means little given we compare serie A to the PL. Hojlund example below :
£40m is a fair price but much as I am fan of his we have higher priorities above signing a striker
Thanks. So it’s always been low. Hope it’s an area that he can really improve on this season. He’s got the night and strength for it.
Höjlund is actually on 35% in Serie A, Zirkzee 45% & Toney 46%.
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/383956/Show/Joshua-Zirkzee
You’re also disregarding just how often Zirkzee or Højlund even got chance to do battle in the air in Serie A. Motto isn’t exactly hot property because he plays Brentford football.
Alternatives are fine, but at anything above 20m, this would be a crap one, hence why we’re not interested and why Brentford keep dropping his price by 10 million quid /week in the media. The bloke has a grand total of 25 Premier League goals, but a cool penalty technique appears to have convinced many he’s a brilliant striker.
Getting a striker who is good with his back to the goal doesn't mean the team is going to play the "old fashioned way".
Did Bayern get Kane to play the old fashioned way?
I didn't pivot anywhere. We need a player who is good with his back to the goal as a striker as we play a lot of transition/vertical football. Zirkzee would help in that regard but he is not an out and out striker. He doesn't like to get in the box like a traditional striker does and is more of a facilitator. Rasmus isn't ready to lead the line for a top club. In fact, I wouldn't mind if he came of the bench or started games out wide as he develops his game this season. I know the chances of it happening are minimal and we'll definitely need to get rid of Sancho or Antony or both to make it happen, but it won't be bad idea to get a PL proven striker in his prime as a stop gap until Rasmus develops and Zirkzee gets accustomed to the league.
Have you seen either of Toney or Zirkzee play? Or is your interrogation (And yes it is that with all these '?") based on a gander to fbref?
Sorry mate, I responded to the following:
I replied because Zirkzee is excellent at holding the ball, it may well be his main strength. If you’ve seen him play you’ll know that without question.
You’re now attempting a completely different debate about the role and what we need.
Sorry, but that wasn't my intention. Was giving reasons as to why I think getting a striker like Toney would be a good idea if we can raise money from selling our two attacking duds.
In ETH's system we do bypass the midfield a lot. We as a team are still not very adept at playing the ball out of the defense and use Onana or the defenders to punt it forward a lot. Also, we lack goals in team: one, due to our style of play and second, due to our lack the goal scorers. A striker who is adept at playing with back to the goal and can get others into play is necessary for the system we play.
Zirkzee can be an important player. It's very hard to describe him, you'll know when you see him play for us that he is not an out and out striker. He is not a RVP or a Zlatan. He is an interesting profile and I myself am keen to see how ETH is planning on using him in the team. He is a good very good attacking player and I see him used as that.
The front 4 from a selection of - Rashford, Garnacho, Amad, Rasmus, Toney, Zirkzee, Mount and Bruno - is a very good choice to have and gives us a chance to play different styles and formations. It also has a good mix of youth and experience.
Last edited:
Yeah, we bought Zirkzee instead of him. Way too many gaps in midfield and defence to spend on a 3rd striker, even with Hojlund out for 6 weeks or whatever.
We bought Zirkzee who is not a classic striker. He said himself that he is not no9. Same as with Mount; we bought a good player for position in which he is not natural.
I still think that we need a proper striker. Classic no9 who is not "useful in other positions". Give me a striker who is only a striker and nothing else.
Kane is one of the most complete strikers in the world. They are in no way comparable.
Way too early to say Zirkzee should switch positions.
He just had his breakout season as Serie A Young Player of the Year as a 9 (sort of a false one, but it was him up top every game and pretty classic midfield 3 behind him in Saelemakers, a sort of Ji Sung Park type, Orsolini, who I believe is a classic winger and Ferguson, a box to box type).
No real evidence to think he wasn't brought in to give us a 9 who will get on the ball more than Hojlund - a very classic striker - and help Rashford, Garnacho and Amad score goals.
He can be criticised to the hilt in numerous posts on here and it still won't put me off him
Its a large amount for a striker who scored 4 goals in 16 starts. I appreciate he had his ban but for example the time off didnt stop Greenwood scoring 8 in 30. 1 in 4 is quite poor and if hes £40 million I shudder to hear what Wissa who scored 12 in 29 starts in the same team is worth
40m for Toney would be a steal.You took his worst sample size, plus he's so much better than Hojlund at basically every other aspect of play.
Last edited:
Toney must be one of the most overrated strikers I can remember in recent times. If he wasn’t good at penalties he wouldn’t get half as much hype as he does.
I see him stepping up in the Utd shirt and yes I know that it makes me sound totally deluded, however don't see it happening. I don't hype him because of the penalties @Malone_Post but others may well do that.
Do you think? We have a real issue converting chances and scoring goals, and as we know goals win games.
What could be more important than that?
Creating. We scored 57 goals from 56.5 xG. We need to create more if we want to score more. And Hojlund's problem isn't his finishing last season. We need to get him involved more and create more chances as a team.
Yeah we definitely do but still feel he can offer us something we haven't got up front, however like I have said earlier he is below all of DM, CB, RB/LB, CM
Jesus are you lot still banging this beaten drum?
Ok let’s tackle this from another angle. There’s 3 weeks left of the transfer window. We don’t appear to have any money and if we did, CM/DM would be priority. We have already signed Zirkzee. We will not be signing Toney. In fact I doubt anyone will sign Toney this summer
Ok let’s tackle this from another angle. There’s 3 weeks left of the transfer window. We don’t appear to have any money and if we did, CM/DM would be priority. We have already signed Zirkzee. We will not be signing Toney. In fact I doubt anyone will sign Toney this summer
steve bull would be worth a gazillion in this market. as reliable a goalscorer as you could get.
Did he ever play in the top league though? I don’t remember. I just remember him scoring like a machine through the other divisions and being capped by England when he was in a lower league
- Status