Ivan Perisic

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VP89 said:
Perisic in his worst season was still not as bad as Martial was last season though. And Perisic is coming off the back of a standout year who is likely to make a bigger impact positionally, given he's a natural winger which is clearly what Mourinho wants (specialist in the position and all that).

Also, can you please tell me which players pushing for first team starts performed worse than Martial last year? Let say in terms of goals/assists to minutes? I can hazard Lingard as a guess, but even if that's true he's a squad player at best and we wouldn't lose much by keeping him. Martial on the other hand needs gametime and we can't offer him much beyond a squad role going by last season (and throwing Perisic on top).
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Perisic in his worst season was absolutely as bad as Martial was, particularly given that Martial wasn't horrendous.

Mkhitaryan (whose goal/assist ratio was worse than Martial's per 90 in the PL) also came off the back of a standout year when he joined us. Look what happened there. There's no guarantee for a player, coming in from a different league, to continue similar types of performances at his new club.

So your logic is, because Lingard is a "squad player", you'd rather keep him than the more productive Martial? That's non-sense. Let alone the fact that we're gonna have tons of games yet again. 38 PL games aside, we'll have a minimum of 6 CL games, but I expect it to be a least 10 European games, not to mention the FA Cup and the English League Cup, which I'm adding another 10 games for combined at the minimum. So we'll have roughly 58 games, ideally around 65.

If we sign Perisic, we'll have Martial and Perisic competing for minutes on one side and Mkhitaryan and Lingard competing for minutes on the other, with Mkhitaryan also providing an alternative to Mata in the middle while Rashford and Lukaku cover the striker position. I'm quite confident Martial will be able to see more than enough game time.

Thus, even if we sign Perisic, we'd be stupid to let Martial go on so many levels.
 
VP89 said:
Perisic in his worst season was still not as bad as Martial was last season though. And Perisic is coming off the back of a standout year who is likely to make a bigger impact positionally, given he's a natural winger which is clearly what Mourinho wants (specialist in the position and all that).
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Perisic in 2012/2013 was easily worse season than Martial last season. Perisic who is currently 28 has never has a season as good as Martial(who was 20) in 15/16 and most likely won't ever come close to such level of performance.
Also, can you please tell me which players pushing for first team starts performed worse than Martial last year? Let say in terms of goals/assists to minutes? I can hazard Lingard as a guess, but even if that's true he's a squad player at best and we wouldn't lose much by keeping him. Martial on the other hand needs gametime and we can't offer him much beyond a squad role going by last season (and throwing Perisic on top).
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Well since you asked for it nicely, according to transfermarket:
Lingard averages a goal/assist every 276 minutes :lol:;
Rashford every 180 minutes;
Mata every 171 minutes;
Mkhitaryan every 159 minutes;
And Martial every 157 minutes.

Basically all of them. Should we loan them out too?
 
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Gbenger said:
Perisic in 2012/2013 has a worse season than Martial last season. Perisic who is currently 28 has never has a season as good as Martial(who was 20) in 15/16 and most likely won't ever come close to such level of performance.
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So you have to go as far back as 4-5 seasons ago to find a year where Perisic was worse than Martial? Sums up my point if anything.

Gbenger said:
Well since you asked for it, according to transfermarket:
Lingard averages a goal/assist every 276 minutes :lol:;
Rashford every 180 minutes;
Mata every 171 minutes;
Mkhitaryan every 159 minutes;
And Martial every 157 minutes.

Basically all of them. Should we loan them out too?
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It's a genuine question re. his output in stats because I didn't know how he fared. I just remember his general play being terrible for most the season.

Lingard should't be included in that list as I asked for the first team candidates (and I'd personally class Lingard a squad player myself). I'm not going to pretend the stats don't favour Martial. Stats are stats but he was still dogshite for most the season. Mkhitaryan is one example where I can say yeah, Perisic should be signed with caution given how Henrik came from a standout year and didn't adapt. But even still, not one of those players are natural wingers and Perisic is. So I can understand the desperation from our manager to bring him in.

As far as loaning Martial goes, he's what 22? Do you think he'll get game time if we sign Perisic (or another winger). He was behind Rashford on the flanks for most the season as it is. Next year he'd be behind the winger we buy, then Rashford. He'd get his chances if he fights in training but that's a subjective matter and none of us here know how it'l pan out. A player of his age should be getting game time. My stance in seeing some logic behind a loan wasn't from his poor season alone, it's also the fact that he needs to play and isn't quite ready to own the position for us as yet.
 
Skills said:
Seems like the type of deal Mourinho would do
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There's no way Mourinho would do this deal. Just because Martial had a bad year last season doesn't mean Jose doesn't rate him; he has frequently criticised players throughout their career in order to push them to produce better.

Also swap deals never happen, they're not practical and extremely complicated. Calm down lads. Martial is staying, whether Perisic is coming or not.
 
elnorte said:
No evidence yet that we are. Next season is clearly hugely significant in that respect.
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We won 2 trophies, and got back into CL but there is no evidence that we are moving forward.

What do fans expect these days?
 
Think Perisic will be a good signing for us but not for Martial. He still deserves some time to try and get things right, he's got the talent to do so. I'd only let Martial go if we could get in another player of improved quality.
 
Wade3 said:
As JPRouve stated, Inter has been spending money. And Perisic signed a contract until 2020 with Inter, nobody forced him to do that. You can't have flexibility in the transfer market and a long-term contract as an insurance behind it. If you want more flexibility as a player, sign shot-term contracts, kinda the way LeBron James is doing in the NBA.
One can always hand in a transfer request, but if a deal doesn't materialize, for one reason or another, you still have to act professionally, something Perisic is simply not doing.
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The thing is now looking at Inter, they're without European football & this time has shown no ambition to strengthen to push for it. Their star players understandably should be entitled to request a transfer to a club that can offer that.

It's still off season, so a player can feel frustrated for his transfer request is not looked at by the club. Thing is Perisic attended Inter preseason on time, so it's already as professional as it can in this instance. He didn't miss training neither. It's better that way than playing nice to the club like Morata did which leading us to turn else where.
 
Womp said:
Think Perisic will be a good signing for us but not for Martial. He still deserves some time to try and get things right, he's got the talent to do so. I'd only let Martial go if we could get in another player of improved quality.
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Disagree. Problem is Martial is not winger. Giving all the time, he won't get it. It may be hard but he should be up to fight for the game time in forward position. If anything, luck already supports him with failure to capture Griezmann's signature & Zlatan injury (already discount Rooney return to Everton). For almost half a season, Martial only has Lukaku & Rashford to compete for 3 different competitions. It's up to him to grasp the chance & claim more gametime for the rest of the campaign. Perisic's supposed signing is for the team: provide for the forward, maintain balance with width when on the other wing, those players prefer drifting inside. It's counter productive expecting a young player to develop his game unnaturally & hinder the team develop in the meantime.
 
ti vu said:
Disagree. Problem is Martial is not winger. Giving all the time, he won't get it. It may be hard but he should be up to fight for the game time in forward position. If anything, luck already supports him with failure to capture Griezmann's signature & Zlatan injury (already discount Rooney return to Everton). For almost half a season, Martial only has Lukaku & Rashford to compete for 3 different competitions. It's up to him to grasp the chance & claim more gametime for the rest of the campaign. Perisic's supposed signing is for the team: provide for the forward, maintain balance with width when on the other wing, those players prefer drifting inside. It's counter productive expecting a young player to develop his game unnaturally & hinder the team develop in the meantime.
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You don't have to be a proper winger to play out wide. In fact the mAjority of the world's top trams deploy wide forwards, whether it be Neymar, Robben, Ronaldo, Bale, Messi, Mandzukic etc. none of which are conventional wingers like Perisic is. By all accounts both could play, as Perisic could provide width and is naturally a right footed player, being a conventional winger could whip crosses in from the right, with Martial playing off the left.

Martial isn't going to make it here as a striker, people need to stop with that. He's our 3rd/4th choice striker. Lukaku, Rashford and Ibra are all preferred to him in that position with good reason.

If he's going to make it here it'll be as a wide forward.
 
Womp said:
You don't have to be a proper winger to play out wide. In fact the mAjority of the world's top trams deploy wide forwards, whether it be Neymar, Robben, Ronaldo, Bale, Messi, Mandzukic etc. none of which are conventional wingers like Perisic is. By all accounts both could play, as Perisic could provide width and is naturally a right footed player, being a conventional winger could whip crosses in from the right, with Martial playing off the left.

Martial isn't going to make it here as a striker, people need to stop with that. He's our 3rd/4th choice striker. Lukaku, and Ibra are all preferred to him in that position with good reason.

If he's going to make it here it'll be as a wide forward.
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Did I miss us signing Ibra again?
Obviously Martial can become a striker here, he has all the physical attributes and qualities. He may not, but you simply cannot state he won't.
 
Red_toad said:
Did I miss us signing Ibra again?
Obviously Martial can become a striker here, he has all the physical attributes and qualities. He may not, but you simply cannot state he won't.
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Ibra looks to be coming back. Rashford, who's younger was preferred up top by two different managers to Martial now. That's enough evidence to make the assumption that his future doesn't lie there with us, at least as long as Jose is around.
 
Martial is clearly more suited to a modern wing role ala Robben or Neymar than as a striker. The only system he'd work as a striker in would be a 2-striker system with him playing off Lukaku or Rashford (similar to the way Griezmann plays as a second striker). Also, @VP89 you are talking absolute nonsense in regard to Perisic and Martial's performances throughout their careers. Perisic's best season (just this last one where he was relied on to be the main creative source for a poor Inter team) still wasn't as good as Martial's debut season for us. Martial was poor last season but he seemed to be distracted by a lot of personal problems, and I think it speaks volumes of his ability that even being in such poor form he still managed to outperform almost all our other attackers in terms of pure involvement in goals/per minute. Any deal which sees Martial leave whether that be permanently or a loan would be insanity.
 
Womp said:
You don't have to be a proper winger to play out wide. In fact the mAjority of the world's top trams deploy wide forwards, whether it be Neymar, Robben, Ronaldo, Bale, Messi etc. none of which are conventional wingers like Perisic is. By all accounts both could play, as Perisic could provide width and is naturally a right footed player, being a conventional winger could whip crosses in from the right, with Martial playing off the left.

Martial isn't going to make it here as a striker, people need to stop with that. He's our 3rd/4th choice striker. Lukaku, Rashford and Ibra are all preferred to him in that position with good reason.

If he's going to make it here it'll be as a wide forward.
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It comes down to those team have full backs on both wing that comfortably cover the whole wing. Valencia can cover the wing but can't offer enough penetration with his crossing. Despite of that, the issue with Perisic or any wingers playing on the right is the lack of width coming from our left side. Shaw & Young are both injured & sub standard for the time being. Blind & Darmian are different type of LB. Expecting some magical change is naive. Back to square one.

Don't disagree with Martial being wide forward, but one should remember his last period for Monaco & first few games for us, he was employed as central forward. He's not the target man type of forward but he can make it as central forward in certain tactic.
 
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ti vu said:
It comes down to those team have full backs on both wing that comfortably cover the whole wing. Valencia can cover the wing but can't offer enough penetrate with his crossing. Despite of that, the issue with Perisic or any wing playing on the right is the left lack width player. Shaw & Young are both injured & sub standard for the time being. Blind & Darmian are different type of LB. Expecting some magical change is naive. Back to square one.

Don't disagree with Martial being wide forward, but one should remember his last season & first few games for us was as central forward. He's not the target type of forward but he can make it as central forward in certain tactic.
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You're right, but I would be worried if we didn't plan on strengthening the full back areas in upcoming windows, even if it wasn't this one. They're an essential part of the current game and ours are just lacking.

Valencia is good but the left position is lacking. If Shaw can't meet the standards required I'd expect us to strengthen sooner than later, allowing us to play with wide forwards.
 
Womp said:
You're right, but I would be worried if we didn't plan on strengthening the full back areas in upcoming windows, even if it wasn't this one. They're an essential part of the current game and ours are just lacking.

Valencia is good but the left position is lacking. If Shaw can't meet the standards required I'd expect us to strengthen sooner than later, allowing us to play with wide forwards.
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I don't disagree that we eventually would have to strengthen at the end of the road. The thing is it's good that these (young) players still have chance to turn their fortune since we can't do too much in one window. Squad building take time. Buying half the starting line up in many cases doesn't solve anything. Mourinho's 4 key signings per summer window policy is reasonable for me.

So my initial point stands that the signing we're supposed to make shouldn't block any youngster. It's a healthy competition that if they respond well, they can still make it. Lingard doesn't have the cut edge ability yet he had plenty of game time. It's not some agenda. He just did "thing" right. For players with much more technical & physical ability, it would be a shame if they don't push & surpass Lingard.
 
But if you look at it from Inter's perspective, you can understand why it's so difficult to let go of Perisic. They're strapped for cash and only signed a young center-half and an old central midfielder this window. They can't match AC Milan's activity this window and their fans are growing increasingly restless. Letting go of Perisic without appearing to make forward progress in the transfer market would be inviting open revolt from their fans. If it's up to us, we either fork up the fee or move on to another target on the list. I'm in favor of the latter at this point.
 
VanHaal'sRedArmy said:
But if you look at it from Inter's perspective, you can understand why it's so difficult to let go of Perisic. They're strapped for cash and only signed a young center-half and an old central midfielder this window. They can't match AC Milan's activity this window and their fans are growing increasingly restless. Letting go of Perisic without appearing to make forward progress in the transfer market would be inviting open revolt from their fans. If it's up to us, we either fork up the fee or move on to another target on the list. I'm in favor of the latter at this point.
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The thing is instead of trying to get maximum fund out & drag this on, they should take a reasonable fee (even secretly), then starts working getting their signings, replacement in. They then can sell Perisic to us after calm their fans down. Here, they don't do neither. As this keeping dragging on, even if they can get the quoted price, they had their hands tied at the end without any options to go for.
 
WTF is Inter on?? Perisic should be part of a Martial deal with 40 more million coming our way at the very least, and I wouldn't even be happy with that. Martial has what it takes to be a top TOP player for the next 10 years. Perisisc is a decent solution for the next 3.
A definite sackable offense if Jose signs off on this
 
BREAKING NEWS: Sky in Italy report that Inter Milan have asked Manchester United for Anthony Martial as part of Ivan Perisic deal. #SSN

Martial is worth three times what Perisic is. This must be nonsense !?!
 
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VP89 said:
So you have to go as far back as 4-5 seasons ago to find a year where Perisic was worse than Martial? Sums up my point if anything.
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Not really, hsi first season with Inter was worse and none of his seasons have been as good as Martial's two best seasons.
 
Toothache? You'd think people would be excited to sign someone who actually possesses some to add to our toothless attack.
 
Last year during the pogba saga there were lots of such rumours. That juve wanted 100m plus Raiola s fees(came to 145m), that they wanted 100m plus Player (Herrera I think it was) etc.

Finally we agreed a fee of 100m including all of Raiola s fees and no player sold to them. Club apparently knew what they were doing (Shocker I know)

My guess is this will be done in a week. The actual fee will be something like 40m euros plus add ons with no player going there.
 
Fergie's gum said:
WTF is Inter on?? Perisic should be part of a Martial deal with 40 more million coming our way at the very least, and I wouldn't even be happy with that. Martial has what it takes to be a top TOP player for the next 10 years. Perisisc is a decent solution for the next 3.
A definite sackable offense if Jose signs off on this
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Jose did let go some great young players cheaply in the past (Lukaku, De Bruyne) and prefer playing those experienced proven players instead.
 
All 3 United said:
BREAKING NEWS: Sky in Italy report that Inter Milan have asked Manchester United for Anthony Martial as part of Ivan Perisic deal. #SSN

Martial is worth three times what Perisic is. This must be nonsense !?!
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Think they want him on loan for a season rather than permanently. I really like Martial and think he has potential to be one of the world's best, but I'm not sure Jose does. If Jose doesn't like him and isn't going to play him a one year loan could give him the chance to really kick on with a view to either changing Jose's mind or ramping up any possible fee we could look to get for him in the future.

If we sold him this summer after last year's performance, I'm not sure we'd even get half of our money back.
 
All 3 United said:
BREAKING NEWS: Sky in Italy report that Inter Milan have asked Manchester United for Anthony Martial as part of Ivan Perisic deal. #SSN

Martial is worth three times what Perisic is. This must be nonsense !?!
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Not sure Mourinho would see it that way - he doesn't seem to rate Martial particularly highly. Wouldn't be the most surprising development if this kind of deal was done.
 
If he really wants to join us he should throw a tantrum seeing that Inter are, essentially, trolling us at this stage with their demands. Otherwise, look elsewhere and stop this nonsense.
 
Infra-red said:
Not sure Mourinho would see it that way - he doesn't seem to rate Martial particularly highly. Wouldn't be the most surprising development if this kind of deal was done.
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Would be very surprised if Martial is part of this deal. Martial isn't like Lukaku or KdB who were cheap punts at Chelsea, ManUtd spent big money to sign Martial, so would be very surprised if Woodward just gives away such a big investment for a player like Perisic
 
Infra-red said:
Not sure Mourinho would see it that way - he doesn't seem to rate Martial particularly highly. Wouldn't be the most surprising development if this kind of deal was done.
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People keep on making the most negative assumptions in their head for no reason. There's no way in hell that Martial is going to Inter in any permanent role. There's a miniscule chance of loan but Mourinho's comment yesterday suggest that he looks at Martial as a striker.
 
KM said:
People keep on making the most negative assumptions in their head for no reason. There's no way in hell that Martial is going to Inter in any permanent role. There's a miniscule chance of loan but Mourinho's comment yesterday suggest that he looks at Martial as a striker.
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What did he say?
 
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