Ivan Perisic

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fcbforever said:
I don't want to be offensive, but going of current years, that's not necessarily a sign of quality.
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It's not my decisions you're criticising so I'm not sure why I would be offended. I agree. We've made bad judgements about players. No doubt so have you. Football's a simple game but there's lots of randomness to it. Judging players isn't easy. For example, it's not long ago that you were calling Diego Costa a key player and potentially world class. The decision makers of your team evidently think he's very much expendable.
fcbforever said:
Regarding Bayern: you are lying to yourself. I know it's aconvenient explaination of our success here, but if we look at our key players, we have bought only Neuer, Götze and Lewandowski from the Bundesliga since 2008. Boateng came from ManCity, some have been homegrown, but most of them have been bought for a reasonable price from other leagues: Robben, D. Costa, Alonso, Benathia, Vidal, Bernat, Martínez, Thiago, Rafinha...

That's what United should do. It's something United once was very good at. Instead you are signing players you don't need, players who are past it and pointless Big Name signings most of the time.
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fcbforever said:
All of the aforementioned were well established players in Germany, none of them became world stars (=/= world class) for Bayern. Costa could archieve that.
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Part of that's because football is a game of opinions and part of that is because it's hard to differentiate form and quality. The reality is Costa looked great for a while but his performances last season showed that he's very much expendable. In any case, I find your arrogance on the subject odd and amusing. Especially given on the one hand you criticise United for going for players past their peak, a big name or an unnecessary signing, and yet when it comes to someone like Perisic who ticks none of those boes, you still feel compelled to sneer. Each to their own I guess.
 
itso 7 said:
Yeah managers are infallible beings, we are basically upgrading Inter's wings leaving them with change.
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I'm not suggesting he's always right. I'm saying, his opinion is the one that matters because he's the manager and he's obviously got a vision/idea for what his teams. I bet he doesn't see it as upgrading Inter.
 
Trigg said:
I'm not suggesting he's always right. I'm saying, his opinion is the one that matters because he's the manager and he's obviously got a vision/idea for what his teams. I bet he doesn't see it as upgrading Inter.
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Mourinho actually has a very poor record regarding wingers, specially in his second spell at Chelsea: Cuadrado, Salah, Schürrle… Even Willian, who's useful, really didn't work out as an all out winger, more like a workhorse who can't beat a player.
 
SwansonsTache said:
He is a German Bayern fan, those guys makes the Barca fans seem modest and humble.
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“Mia san mia” brigade. The level of self-delusion and self-entitlement is astonishing sometimes. That "Mia san mia" has even 16 principles behind it, most of them go to the toilet the moment they go after another player in their league.

Also, missed that drivel that we can't go for the class of players above Perisic. If I didn't read it, I wouldn't believe it.
 
roonster09 said:
Yeah and Douglas Costa who at the age of 26 never scored more than 6 league goals is better, especially when he played in Ukraine league for 6 years. He played for 2 power house of a clubs in their own league and his best goal scoring seasons is just 6 goals, yeah he is better.

Apart from the purple patch he had when Pep was manager, he was just average.

Yeah but Costa is better because Perisic was an ass when he was at Dortmund or because some Bayern fan has some extensive knowledge on a player he probably didn't even watch in last 2 years.
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He was an ass. At Wolfsburg as well. His first season at Inter was also bang average. He always had huge problems with attitude. At least Costa got potential, because with him, we never actually saw how he would perform when he is a key player. He's also younger, and cheaper. It's not even my point really, I don't think United should go for him either. But some people here are desperate in somehow justifying a Perisic transfer.

Jim Beam said:
There are many people who rate Perisic above Costa and also the other way around. Costa can look like a world beater in one game and totally opposite the next one. Perisic sure looks more like a team player and while his decision making and consistency can be a problem, Costa is even worse in terms of consistency despite all his flashy things he does now and then. Also, Perisic looks more suited to the way Mourinho wants to play.

In short, get off your high horse because it's not so clear-cut case as you suggest.
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Perisic, a team player. Probably not. And yet again, I did not suggest Costa is *the* solution to Uniteds problems. But probably more so than Perisic. There's quite a few players which would be preferable to both of them, that's for sure.

SwansonsTache said:
Oh, really? The transfer ban for Atletico is the only thing that stopped us getting Griezman who you covet so much, and you can bet that will be revisited next summer.

Last year we signed Pogba without CL.
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Yeah, exactly. So it's not like the market is stacked with world class wingers. It's not about it being impossible for United to get players of stature (although increasingly difficult) but about the market. And Inter does know that market.

SwansonsTache said:
He is a German Bayern fan, those guys makes the Barca fans seem modest and humble.
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It's more about a lot of guys getting offended at the slightest notion there might be something wrong.

Brwned said:
It's not my decisions you're criticising so I'm not sure why I would be offended. I agree. We've made bad judgements about players. No doubt so have you. Football's a simple game but there's lots of randomness to it. Judging players isn't easy. For example, it's not long ago that you were calling Diego Costa a key player and potentially world class. The decision makers of your team evidently think he's very much expendable.


Part of that's because football is a game of opinions and part of that is because it's hard to differentiate form and quality. The reality is Costa looked great for a while but his performances last season showed that he's very much expendable. In any case, I find your arrogance on the subject odd and amusing. Especially given on the one hand you criticise United for going for players past their peak, a big name or an unnecessary signing, and yet when it comes to someone like Perisic who ticks none of those boes, you still feel compelled to sneer. Each to their own I guess.
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Vastly out of context. By players mentioned, "key players" pretty clearly referred to "more than just squad players". Unless you think anyone would ever class Bernat or Benathia as "key players" at Bayern at any time here.
And yup, he's got that potential. I still think he does.

But also, yet again, for you: No, I do not think Costa is necessarily the solution here. But sure as hell a better one than Perisic.
 
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Jim Beam said:
“Mia san mia” brigade. The level of self-delusion and self-entitlement is astonishing sometimes. That "Mia san mia" has even 16 principles behind it, most of them go to the toilet the moment they go after another player in their league.

Also, missed that drivel that we can't go for the class of players above Perisic. If I didn't read it, I wouldn't believe it.
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Yeah, I also missed that drivel of people getting offended again for the sake of it and reading something into something because they want it to be that way.
 
fcbforever said:
Perisic, a team player. Probably not. And yet again, I did not suggest Costa is *the* solution to Uniteds problems. But probably more so than Perisic. Theirs quite a few players which would be preferable to both of them, that's for sure.
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Seems Mourinho is after a specific type of player, part workhorse and part keep the width type player with good crossing. He had one of those industrious wingers at both Inter and Chelsea.

Which other players that fits the bill would you suggest?

Lemar cuts inside a lot
Bernardeschi the same, and Juve wants him
Wenger wouldn't even sell us a timeshare flat, so Sanchez is out of the question

Who else? It really is a shit market out there.
 
fcbforever said:
Vastly out of context. By players mentioned, "key players" pretty clearly referred to "more than just squad players". Unless you think anyone would ever class Bernat or Benathia as "key players" at Bayern at any time here.
And yup, he's got that potential. I still think he does.

But also, yet again, for you: No, I do not think Costa is necessarily the solution here. But sure as hell a better one than Perisic.
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Thank you for sharing your obviously very important opinions with us.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that Costa is a better player and a better option. I'm just a bit more open to the idea that I can't see Mourinho's strategy in its entirety so I don't know what specific kind of players are needed, I'm not that great at judging players and I've seen nowhere near enough of Perisic in recent years to make an informed judgment.
 
fcbforever said:
He was an ass. At Wolfsburg as well. His first season at Inter was also bang average. He always had huge problems with attitude. At least Costa got potential, because with him, we never actually saw how he would perform when he is a key player. He's also younger, and cheaper. It's not even my point really, I don't think United should go for him either. But some people here are desperate in somehow justifying a Perisic transfer.
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His average season is better than any of Costa's season at Bayern, at least w.r.t goals and assists.

So Douglas Costa has this Cleverley/Lallana syndrome, they will be young forever? He will be 27 in September and you are talking about his potential. Just because he has quick feet doesn't make him potentially good player.

Bold part doesn't even make sense, we never actually saw how he would perform when he is key player, so he is better player?

Re Perisic, ManUtd should sign him but not for the asking price set by Inter. It's way too much but then again I don't deal with finances. At least Perisic > Costa any day.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Seems Mourinho is after a specific type of player, part workhorse and part keep the width type player with good crossing. He had one of those industrious wingers at both Inter and Chelsea.

Which other players that fits the bill would you suggest?

Lemar cuts inside a lot
Bernardeschi the same, and Juve wants him
Wenger wouldn't even sell us a timeshare flat, so Sanchez is out of the question

Who else? It really is a shit market out there.
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It's actually something I already said in that qoute the other guy dug up: think out of the box instead of overpaying for an average 28 year old with zero potential.
Sharawy seems to have recovered from injury and is still young, Dortmund would be happy to get rid of Schürrle (who is far from perfect, but at least cheaper and had a good relationship with Mourinho before), Keita Balde sure as hell is interesting (but admittedly expensive).
 
roonster09 said:
His average season is better than any of Costa's season at Bayern, at least w.r.t goals and assists.

So Douglas Costa has this Cleverley/Lallana syndrome, they will be young forever? He will be 27 in September and you are talking about his potential. Just because he has quick feet doesn't make him potentially good player.

Bold part doesn't even make sense, we never actually saw how he would perform when he is key player, so he is better player?

Re Perisic, ManUtd should sign him but not for the asking price set by Inter. It's way too much but then again I don't deal with finances. At least Perisic > Costa any day.
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He never got the chance at Bayern to be the main man consistently because of Robbery. The stretches he got when both or at least one were injured for a longer period of time are what you refer to as "purple patches". So yes, there's potential.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Look at some of the shite we've had over the years that had weird little cult followings on here, just to further prove your point...
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It's like that everywhere. I was one of those who always wanted to give Götze another chance.

As for Inter fans being gutted: Well, let's be realistic here, they are a third tier club these days internationally. So of course they are gutted. Doesn't say much about Perisic.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Seems Mourinho is after a specific type of player, part workhorse and part keep the width type player with good crossing. He had one of those industrious wingers at both Inter and Chelsea.

Which other players that fits the bill would you suggest?

Lemar cuts inside a lot
Bernardeschi the same, and Juve wants him
Wenger wouldn't even sell us a timeshare flat, so Sanchez is out of the question

Who else? It really is a shit market out there.
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That Perisic is labeled as "team player" is really what makes me wonder. He has never been a team player during his 4 years in the Bundesliga and most people here argue that Inter is a dysfunctional/shitty team (which I can't really say anything about).

Work-rate was never his strength. He failed in Dortmund, because he refused to put in enough effort and Wolfsburg was a collection of individualists. His strength was always that he has an okay output without being top class. Just for reference. Guys like Schürrle, Son or even Costa showed a lot more quality in the Bundesliga yet hardly anyone would argue that they'd be special players. Even Gnabry's last season is probably above what Perisic showed. Or guys like Malli, Didawi, Bellarabi or Herman. The list is really endless.
 
fcbforever said:
It's actually something I already said in that qoute the other guy dug up: think out of the box instead of overpaying for an average 28 year old with zero potential.
Sharawy seems to have recovered from injury and is still young, Dortmund would be happy to get rid of Schürrle (who is far from perfect, but at least cheaper and had a good relationship with Mourinho before), Keita Balde sure as hell is interesting (but admittedly expensive).
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Keita is right footed, not ambidextrous and cuts in and goes central a lot, in fact that is his game - very different from Perisic, besides there would be AFCON.
Sharawy I have no idea about
Schürrle already tried the PL and failed, besides if Dortmund would be happy to be rid we probably wouldn't be very happy if we bought him

You see? Really shit for alternatives out there. For the specific type Mourinho seems to want there isn't a whole lot to choose from.

All this being said I would be underwhelmed with Perisic at the prices quoted for sure. Typical our luck that we are in dire need of a striker and out&out winger in the shittest market for those type of players for years.
 
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fcbforever said:
It's like that everywhere. I was one of those who always wanted to give Götze another chance.

As for Inter fans being gutted: Well, let's be realistic here, they are a third tier club these days internationally. So of course they are gutted. Doesn't say much about Perisic.
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Oh yeah I totally agree. I suppose, at least Götze had shown some amazing form during his career to warrant some optimism. There have been some terrible players here over the years that had the weirdest of cult followings.
 
Mihai said:
Jose's signings have been good quality so far.
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They were exceptional last season, but then he had all the time in the world to prepare for them. This year is was on the verge of a breakdown with the run of games and injuries, I very much doubt he had lots of time to watch and consider the transfer market. Besides, his record on wingers in the last spell at Chelsea is worrisome.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Keita is right footed, not ambidextrous and cuts in and goes central a lot, in fact that is his game - very different from Perisic, besides there would be AFCON.
Sharawy I have no idea about
Schürrle already tried the PL and failed, besides if Dortmund would be happy to be rid we probably wouldn't be very happy if we bought him

You see? Really shit for alternatives out there. For the specific type Mourinho seems to want there isn't a whole lot to choose from.

All this being said I would be underwhelmed with Perisic at the prices quoted for sure. Typical our luck that we are in dire need of a striker and out&out winger in the shittest market for those type of players for years.
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I had no idea AFCON is a problem. Also, he's not perfect with both feet, but still good enough with his left. He's also strong and "cutting in" will also always be about tactical role. I would recommend him.

As for Schürrle, I wouldn't say he failed at Chelsea. He did very well for a young German coming from Leverkusen. Dortmund only wants to get rid of him because he's quite expensive for a player only being an option when Reus is injured, if they are even playing the same system when he is. He would pretty much offer the same qualities as Perisic while being 2 years younger and costing half the money.

The market is shit, but there's still better value in it than Perisic.
 
For Jose to make such a fuss over him there must be something about him that he and his team see that none of us do.
 
032Devil said:
For Jose to make such a fuss over him there must be something about him that he and his team see that none of us do.
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He probably just watched him a few games in the Euro and decided solely on those impressive performances.
 
Android1974 said:
They were exceptional last season, but then he had all the time in the world to prepare for them. This year is was on the verge of a breakdown with the run of games and injuries, I very much doubt he had lots of time to watch and consider the transfer market. Besides, his record on wingers in the last spell at Chelsea is worrisome.
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One can argue that Jose hadn't worked with the team prior to last year summer, as opposed to this summer when he knows exactly what is needed.
 
Android1974 said:
They were exceptional last season, but then he had all the time in the world to prepare for them. This year is was on the verge of a breakdown with the run of games and injuries, I very much doubt he had lots of time to watch and consider the transfer market. Besides, his record on wingers in the last spell at Chelsea is worrisome.
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Probably only Zlatan could be described as anything close to exceptional. The others varied from decent to underwhelming.
 
rocks13 said:
Probably only Zlatan could be described as anything close to exceptional. The others varied from decent to underwhelming.
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Exceptional as in the sense you didn't have to get rid of them immediately.
 
Android1974 said:
He probably just watched him a few games in the Euro and decided solely on those impressive performances.
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Possible but coaching staff see much more in a player than most of can consider. Businesses that run a company worth 100s of millions need details analysis before they part with tens of millions.

Remember the Leeds debacle?
 
fcbforever said:
It's like that everywhere. I was one of those who always wanted to give Götze another chance.

As for Inter fans being gutted: Well, let's be realistic here, they are a third tier club these days internationally. So of course they are gutted. Doesn't say much about Perisic.
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I'm really not offended. I was calling you out because you were making something as a fact, even made that "fact" laughable (Costa - Perisic comparison) when it's more a matter of opinion and most importantly what fits better to some managers style of play.

And here you go again with the same kind of humble assessment of players, clubs, etc. I would never call Inter third tier club, even now when they are in a difficult period. But to each his own, I guess.
 
fcbforever said:
They have money and are desperate. Also, Inter knows that United likely can't go for the class of players above Perisic, so why wouldn't you rob some money for this one.

This feels like back in the day with Van Gaal again, when I told everyone that Van Gaal would end in a catastrophe and everyone was somehow spinning him to be the ideal manager.
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All the Bayern fans said we should be wary with Louis. That turn out to be rather true.

I dont think Perisic is a player that will catapult above what we are, which is rather an average side.
 
Jim Beam said:
I'm really not offended. I was calling you out because you were making something as a fact, even made that "fact" laughable (Costa - Perisic comparison) when it's more a matter of opinion and most importantly what fits better to some managers style of play.

And here you go again with the same kind of humble assessment of players, clubs, etc. I would never call Inter third tier club, even now when they are in a difficult period. But to each his own, I guess.
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They are not a third tier club

But they are definitely a third tier team.
 
Brwned said:
I think most people just have the humility to acknowledge that they don't have extensive knowledge of players at midtable clubs, in 2nd tier leagues, outside their own country. The people who suggest they do are a bit weird. The people who do have that extensive knowledge and expertise to go with it are the people at United who obviously think he's worth looking at.
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Good post
 
K2K said:
All the Bayern fans said we should be wary with Louis. That turn out to be rather true.

I dont think Perisic is a player that will catapult above what we are, which is rather an average side.
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Not quite true, I do remember the odd Bayern fan here endorsing Van Gaal even before it became clear he was taking over, as he'd bring a no-nonsene attitute and structure to the team. (In more or less their own words)

The latter part you wrote is also interesting, as it's been said time and again on this forum that we've signed some bigger name players without a clear method for how to best make use of their talent (Di Maria, Pogba) as well as a squad of random players assembled by 3 different managers (Moyes, LvG, Mou).
And they argued what we actually need is stability and a functional team created in the mold of one manager...

Clearly Perisic is in the mold of wideman that what Mourinho sees as a vital cog for our left side to function, but we find this forum yet again unhappy because they view him as just a steady-eddy type and not a potential world class player/name?
 
SwansonsTache said:
Seems Mourinho is after a specific type of player, part workhorse and part keep the width type player with good crossing. He had one of those industrious wingers at both Inter and Chelsea.

Which other players that fits the bill would you suggest?

Lemar cuts inside a lot
Bernardeschi the same, and Juve wants him
Wenger wouldn't even sell us a timeshare flat, so Sanchez is out of the question

Who else? It really is a shit market out there.
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Perisic has 2 qualities as a footballer, that Mourinho quite clearly rates

1) he has pace - Mourinho like quick wingers
2) he is tall/physically strong - when you look at 4 of the 5 players Mourinho has signed (Bailly, Lindelöf, Pogba, Zlatan) - they all have that in common.

He is not my favourite player - but I believe he will be a decent signing for us. He works hard, is a good crosser of the ball and is good on the counter. If we are gonna play Mourinhos football - we should have Mourinho-style players for the job
 
BennyBlanco said:
Clearly Perisic is in the mold of widemam that what Mourinho wants on our left side, and how he sets us up, but we find this forum yet again unhappy because they view him as just a steady-eddy and not a potential world class player/name?
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I'm not so sure he doesn't see him more as a kind of Di María, a workhorse on the right (like other wingers we're connected with, Willian, L.Moura) with firing power too, leaving the left for an extreme-forward (Rashford or Martial), as previously on his Real Madrid's 4-2-3-1.
 
Android1974 said:
I'm not so sure he doesn't see him more as a kind of Di María, a workhorse on the right (like other wingers we're connected with, Willian, L.Moura) with firing power too, leaving the left for an extreme-forward (Rashford or Martial), as previously on his Real Madrid's 4-2-3-1.
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It could be, yeah? either that or hes kicking martial to the bench on the left to allow better balance for Mkhi, I've really no idea.
But it seems clear that he wants a disciplined touchline wideman on one flank.
 
Android1974 said:
Mourinho actually has a very poor record regarding wingers, specially in his second spell at Chelsea: Cuadrado, Salah, Schürrle… Even Willian, who's useful, really didn't work out as an all out winger, more like a workhorse who can't beat a player.
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Hahahahha

Like Robben, De Brujne

Cuadrado, Salah, Willian all great players
 
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