SOOOOOO important for Germany and England that Leverkusen ended up getting the draw against Roma. It looked fairly save when they were leading 2-0 and it looked all over when they were down 2-4. 4-4 at the end, crazy game!! 
Italy vs England vs Germany (UEFA Coefficients Race)
- Thread starter Mrs Smoker
- Start date
Uh oh. Be prepared to get jumped by the Germans of the forum.
Don't worry, 90% are Bayern fans and they suddenly tend to disappear when Bayern loses, so he should be fine.
And then it's just multiplied by 1000 because why not?
No. You add that to the points accumulated over the last 4 years.
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html
Great site run by a guy called Bert. It has all the rankings back to when European football started.
Thanks much.
Seems you got the answers, and yeah, that orange number is most important. Those are accumulated points from 11-12 season to this current one. They'll determine places for 17-18 season, and think England is safe.
Dammit, City.
I'd be curious to see how the table is looking now.
this is in german and looks shit but it works well and has all the infos.
http://www.5-jahres-wertung.de/APD/Online/5JW.php
http://www.5-jahres-wertung.de/APD/Online/5JW.php
cheers (and yes, it does look shit. that page looks like it was designed in the early 90's)
UEFA's making some updates every now and then.
http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/index.html
After today's games (3 wins for Italy in EL, 2 for England) both countries should be on 6,5.
Fecking West Ham and Southampton, they're costing England points. Every point earned by other teams is divided between these two as well while their contribution was basically zero. Europa League is key for that UEFA rankings and Italian teams are doing well here (Fiorentina and Napoli making semis last year) while teams like WHU and Southampton don't even bother themselves to reach the group stages.
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There's a Dutch website which is updated rather quickly. A bonus is that this guy shows in detail for each country how their collected country coefficient for this campaign is comprised of, i.e. number of wins, draws, losses per team.
Country ranking: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html
Country coefficient 2015/16: http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/ccoef2016.html
According to this website, England collected in total 7.125, Italy 6.500 points.
I would not entirely agree. It's true that it may be easier to get points for wins or draws.
However, the number of possible bonus points per team is so much higher in the Champions League that this is IMHO more than compensating for tougher competition in the group stage:
Champions League
- 4 points for participating the group stage
- 4+1=5 points for entering the knock-out stage
- 1 point for every next round (maximum 4 points)
Europa League
- 0 points for participating the group stage
- 0 points for entering the knock-out stage
- 0 point for round of last 32
- 0 points for round of last 16
- 1 point for every next round (maximum 3 points)
Assuming England have 3 teams go through to Germany's 1-2 teams, England can move up quickly right?
They already added the bonus points for City's progress to the knockout stages. It's a bit confusing to do that so early in my opinion, better to let all 6 games play out and then add all bonus points for all teams.
I'm not sure I understand your point; you mean that England would take over Germany due to the number of teams succeeding into the CL KO stage?
Not necessarily, very hard to predict at this point in time. Each win gives a team 2 points, each draw 1 point. At least in the EL group stage, it should be easier to win than in the CL group stage.
The Europa League has also one round more (round of last 32) and if you win both legs, that's four points you can't get as a CL KO participant.
Furthermore, all points from English teams are divided by 8, all points from German teams by 7.
It also depends if German teams from the CL end up being 4th, dropping from all European competition, or 3rd, entering the Europa League. Considering the current form, I would expect Wolfsburg, Leverkusen and Gladbach all making at least 3rd of their group, meaning they have a good chance of running deeper into the competition, collecting points for wins or draws.
Yes, that's what I meant but you're right about the considerable other factors, especially the # of teams and how 2 of England's entrants are already out of Europe.
Russia just went above France, albeit momentarily (Zenit are the first qualified team so they've already got the extra points).
And God, I shouldn't have looked the SPL up. They're 25th, just above Azerbaïjan. I think they have it in them to fall even further down though.
And God, I shouldn't have looked the SPL up. They're 25th, just above Azerbaïjan. I think they have it in them to fall even further down though.
Useful site - thanks for the links.
It would seem that the fair play places whilst meant to be a reward are actually a poisoned chalice.
Updated numbers after tonight matches:
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html
3 Italian, 3 German and 2 English sides play tomorrow.
It does not fit perfectly in this thread but I'll post the link anyway: The club coefficient ranking http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2016.html. The numbers are a bit skewed as those CL teams that qualified for the KO stage got already their additional 5 bonus points (e.g. City), and EL teams can get points tomorrow (e.g. Napoli, Basel). But even with this kinda off picture: Who would have thought that United is currently 19th? Even if you win against Wolfsburg and get 7 points awarded (2 for win, 5 for proceeding), you won't overtake City.
15 Manchester City | 86.956
16 Napoli | 84.321
17 Bayer Leverkusen | 81.606
18 FC Basel | 81.435
19 Manchester United | 77.956
You run a risk not even making pot 2 next CL season unless you win the Premier League.
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2016.html
3 Italian, 3 German and 2 English sides play tomorrow.
It does not fit perfectly in this thread but I'll post the link anyway: The club coefficient ranking http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2016.html. The numbers are a bit skewed as those CL teams that qualified for the KO stage got already their additional 5 bonus points (e.g. City), and EL teams can get points tomorrow (e.g. Napoli, Basel). But even with this kinda off picture: Who would have thought that United is currently 19th? Even if you win against Wolfsburg and get 7 points awarded (2 for win, 5 for proceeding), you won't overtake City.
15 Manchester City | 86.956
16 Napoli | 84.321
17 Bayer Leverkusen | 81.606
18 FC Basel | 81.435
19 Manchester United | 77.956
You run a risk not even making pot 2 next CL season unless you win the Premier League.
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Italy's performances are definitely worrying. Their teams need to go out in the Europa League asap. 
Spurs and Liverpool both through in the EL. City through in the CL. I'd back Chelsea and United to go through also. Arsenal result will be tougher.
Would be great if Roma came 4th which is still possible. Napoli and Lazio are both comfortably through in the EL. Fiorentina could still get knocked out. Juventus are through.
Would be great if Roma came 4th which is still possible. Napoli and Lazio are both comfortably through in the EL. Fiorentina could still get knocked out. Juventus are through.
Well, Italy are basically 1 point in front which is a lot. If ´Juventus reach the semis again, it's game over. Also if three of Italy's team reach the quarters in the Europa league it will be enough to see of the PL.
Once the 11/12 season is chalked off, EPL is 0.8 behind so we obviously need to outscore Serie A by at least that much this year.
I reckon it depends on how many EPL teams get through to the last 32 of the champions league. If they all make it that's 16 bonus points (so an additional 2 points to the coefficient). Italy can (and probably will) only get 8 (an additional 1.3 points).
How sure can you be of Arsenal and United making it to the last 32 of the CL?
Not sure at all, nor Chelsea for that matter but they're all in with a decent shout still so lets be optimistic!
I guess you mean round of last 16 of the CL? Round of last 32 is only for Europa League.
However, you make a valid point that CL teams reaching the KO stage get a lot of bonus points (4+1=5 points per team). That said: By the mentioned EL round of 32, EL teams can partially compensate for it. They get no points for reaching the KO stage but two additional matches in which they can theoretically make 4 points if they win both legs.
In fact, Italy taught coutries last season how to make the most out of Europa League: Just win games!
Italy gained last season 114 points from 6 teams:
66 points from wins
22 points from draws
20 bonus points
England gained last season 95 points from 7 teams:
44 points from wins
14 points from draws
31 bonus points
Also, (I think I have this right) each year the number of champions league places is based on the aggregate of the last 5 years coefficients. So at the end of this season the EPL will have 62.034 (Plus this years coefficient) to Serie A's 58.939 (plus theirs). That means for EPL to lose its 4th champions league spot for 16/17 season Italy's teams have to beat our coefficient by a margin of 3.1 this year. So it's the 17/18 season onwards we have to be particularly worried about, but we also then have an extra year to redeem ourselves
Edit: Yeah, last 16, sorry. Good point about the Europa league teams, but we still have a couple of decent teams in that competition as well.
Edit: Yeah, last 16, sorry. Good point about the Europa league teams, but we still have a couple of decent teams in that competition as well.
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If you look at previous seasons, very rarely only top 16 occupy the top 2 spots. Invariably there are few teams missing out on qualification. Right now for ex. Chelsea, Juve, Benfica, Zenit, Schalke, Bayer all are above United in rankings but not among CL places in their respective countries. United just need 3 of them to miss out. Some of them will get there eventually but couple of them are struggling. Plus some of the teams above may end up in qualifying spots in CL next year but not qualify for group stage.
With league winners occupying the top pot though, it will be tricky with couple of teams below United will be in top spot (Russia & Ukraine/Netherlands). United should target reaching 17th by end of season to be sure of pot 2. 18 may do too.
We'll see. Bar Chelsea, I wouldn't expect so many to drop out. Having said that, there are teams which for the time being are below you but which, if they make deeper runs than United in the CL or even EL, can overtake you.
Nice going, United.
A good run in the Europa league would be good for it
Juventus finishing 2nd in group. Roma will at best finish 2nd in group. I personally will prefer Roma to finish 2nd in group and go out at R16 than go to Europa. They will probably get overall more points in Europa than the 5 bonus points they will get for qualifying CL round of 16. Last season, only 1 Italian team got through to R16 while 3 English teams made through but in the end good runs of Italian teams in Europa helped in coefficient (along with Juve's run to CL final).
Napoli and Lazio are looking good in Europa to make quarters at least.
Napoli and Lazio are looking good in Europa to make quarters at least.
Germany could join the race with Gladbach out now and Augsburg probably dropping out of Europa League as well.
Naah, Germany is safe for 1-2 more seasons. Currently around 7 points ahead of Italy and 4 ahead of England. Having more points for this season than England & Italy. Also 2012-15 the total is slightly better than the other two.
Two teams going out will be disadvantage going forward this season but I think there is enough buffer for 1-2 more seasons. Also, am expecting Bayern and Dortmund to progress deep this season to ensure Germany stay ahead in coefficient race.
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We were always in the race, just with a slight headstart. We won't drop down this season, but if we again lose points on Italy, we're in trouble very soon.
Dortmund and Schalke missing out on the CL hurt us a lot, because they regularly make it out of their CL group and Leverkusen/Gladbach would have done well in EL groups anyway. The difficult draw for Gladbach and Leverkusen didn't help either. Hopefully Schalke, Dortmund and depending on the results today Leverkusen can make a deep run in the EL. Maybe Wolfsburg gets an easy draw and make it to the quarterfinals, that would be brilliant.
the coefficients make a compelling case for us to take the europa league seriously as a good run in that could help ensure that 4th place is still a cl position in a couple of years.
Also from a united perspective I think we are now ranked 20th as a club (the 4th highest english club and closer to being caught by spurs (5th ranked) than we are to catching city (3rd ranked)) The reality is a probable third seed place if we qualift for the cl next year which will agin make progress more difficult (for example madrid and dortmund in the same group as us)
Normally Id think I dont care about the europa leage just concentrate on doing as well as possible in the pl but given our coefficient and the overall picture I think we have to go for it as best we can
Also from a united perspective I think we are now ranked 20th as a club (the 4th highest english club and closer to being caught by spurs (5th ranked) than we are to catching city (3rd ranked)) The reality is a probable third seed place if we qualift for the cl next year which will agin make progress more difficult (for example madrid and dortmund in the same group as us)
Normally Id think I dont care about the europa leage just concentrate on doing as well as possible in the pl but given our coefficient and the overall picture I think we have to go for it as best we can