If they aren't taking meaningful action to stop what’s happening, I would rather they remain silent.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Oh, Trumps's winning that. But Netanyahu's so excited by what he's seen from Trump that he's trying a similar thing.
As expected, the government approved his appointment despite the chief council's objections, and now it will be taken to the supreme court which... I've no idea what it'll decide.
Unfortunately, the supreme court here has become more conservative in recent years, but not as much as the one in the United States, so it really depends on the identity of the judges selected for the case.
A reminder that the US have been bombing Yemen as support for the genocide against Palestinians for the last 5 days and targeting without the Israeli buffer arab women and children.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/h...ren-injured-in-us-airstrikes-on-yemen/3514583
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/h...ren-injured-in-us-airstrikes-on-yemen/3514583
Seven children had their legs amputated without anesthesia in Gaza today, local journalist reports:
Seperated link because the report contains graphic images.
Seperated link because the report contains graphic images.
Israel's air attacks have continued across Gaza for a third day. At least 110 Palestinians have been killed since dawn, our colleagues on the ground report and at least 200 children have been killed in the last three days.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:2lofqead276vtc5647ye7sl2/post/3lkt3wdcjzk2r
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:2lofqead276vtc5647ye7sl2/post/3lkt3wdcjzk2r
Honest question, why hasn't an Israeli done a Rabin on him?
Because they like what he's doing.
Because the (loads) of people who DO NOT LIKE what he's doing are not violent people and will never go to such extremes. It's not a co-incidence that all political violence in the history of Israel came from the right, and not just Rabin's assasination.
Oh, and security around the PM was obviously tightened massivly since Rabin, anyway.
The impression I get from israeli media and social media tells me a different story. In general society seems pretty much happy with his actions.
The vast majority are happy with what he does to the Palestinians or don't care which isn't different. A good percentage of them have a problem with his political actions because they pull the mask off the whole "only democracy in the Middle East" nonsense.
The bolded part is quite correct.
The latter part, no. People are absolutely worried about Israeli democracy - faulty as it is - and not about how it looks like.
Defense Minister Katz threatens to annex part of the Gaza Strip unless Hamas releases hostages
“In a statement, Katz says: “If the Hamas terror organization continues to refuse to release the hostages, I instructed the IDF to capture additional areas, evacuate the population, and expand the security zone around Gaza for the protection of Israeli communities and IDF soldiers, through a permanent hold of the area by Israel.” “
[Note the word “permanent”]
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...he-gaza-strip-unless-hamas-releases-hostages/
The government has decided last night to fire the head of the Israeli Security Agency (Shin Bet), with Netanyahu claiming he has no trust in him - and also lying that the head of the SB knew of the Hamas attack on October 7 hours before it happened and didn't bother giving him notice.
That, despite the general council declaring before the government meeting that a different procedure is required in order to fire him.
The Israeli court has now decided to freeze the government's decision until further deliberations. Netaynahu - who has several advisors being investigated by the SB about business connections to Qatar - claimed that he if the supreme court ends up deciding that the government's decision was unlawful, he'll still fire the head of the SB.
Meanwhile, on Sunday, the government will start the proceedure to fire the general council - who is also the person in charge of the prosecution in Netanyahu's trial.
It's chaos. Netanyahu's own war on Israel and the rule of law.
That, despite the general council declaring before the government meeting that a different procedure is required in order to fire him.
The Israeli court has now decided to freeze the government's decision until further deliberations. Netaynahu - who has several advisors being investigated by the SB about business connections to Qatar - claimed that he if the supreme court ends up deciding that the government's decision was unlawful, he'll still fire the head of the SB.
Meanwhile, on Sunday, the government will start the proceedure to fire the general council - who is also the person in charge of the prosecution in Netanyahu's trial.
It's chaos. Netanyahu's own war on Israel and the rule of law.
To be fair Netanyahu took his time for this one. The head of Shin Bet has been vocal against violence toward palestinians and warned that it would only lead to further the radicalization of the youth. IIRC he was labeled as a traitor by some MPs.
That's kind of it. If he had no trust in him due to October 7, why did he keep him in the job for another year and a half?
He's trying to fire him because of the fresh investigation involving his advisors.
And that's started to be reported in Western media, but the point really is, how has he been allowed to kill 50,000 people and starve and displace hundreds of thousands more and nothing be done about it? And all with Western government backing?
Erdogan and Trump are following a similar playbook. The system has failed and there is no accountability.
The fabled strength of Western democracies (institutions, engaged citizens, etc) has more or less been shown for the thin paper that it's always been.
Which makes the Western civilizational superiority complex all the more absurd. The West's strength has always been it's proficiency at organized violence, nothing more.
feck these lying, child murdering, scum. feck them to hell.
Several times worse than the nazis
This was already true a year ago.. now even more
This was already true a year ago.. now even more
Nethanahyu had a court appearance the other day which he didn't have to attend because Israel was technically at war again after he restarted the bombing.
It's the lobbying that I despise. It's not balanced. Every nation has a lobby, but Israel insists upon being foremost in all these interviews and framing the conflict absolutely in their favor.
At this stage, what makes Hamas worse than the IDF? In the terrorism stakes, the latter, quantitatively, have outdone the former by many orders of magnitude. You don't see them pan round to a Hamas or even a Fatah (who have down arms) spokesperson for "balance". The PA may as well not exist in both Palestinian (they say traitors) and Western consciousness because of this second: gave up the armed the struggle but got nothing except displacement for it and no one in the west will take them seriously. No one in Israel takes them seriously, either, including the Palestinians. But maybe that would change if the West actually aired the grievances of that not tiny sector called the WB where arms are largely downed. There is still IJ and some Hamas there (but mostly political). What is the point in being, once, the largest representatives of the Palestinians (because of the peace negotiations and giving up arms) if no one will let you balance out claims the Israeli lobby makes abroad.
That, as is known, in Israel, too, feeds the pipeline for IJ and Hamas. Disaffected with the PA and Fatah they turn elsewhere for defense.
If you want to examine Israel's conduct the go-to in the West is to get an Israeli spokesperson on. Do you do that with the Russians? Rarely. Almost never.
At this stage, what makes Hamas worse than the IDF? In the terrorism stakes, the latter, quantitatively, have outdone the former by many orders of magnitude. You don't see them pan round to a Hamas or even a Fatah (who have down arms) spokesperson for "balance". The PA may as well not exist in both Palestinian (they say traitors) and Western consciousness because of this second: gave up the armed the struggle but got nothing except displacement for it and no one in the west will take them seriously. No one in Israel takes them seriously, either, including the Palestinians. But maybe that would change if the West actually aired the grievances of that not tiny sector called the WB where arms are largely downed. There is still IJ and some Hamas there (but mostly political). What is the point in being, once, the largest representatives of the Palestinians (because of the peace negotiations and giving up arms) if no one will let you balance out claims the Israeli lobby makes abroad.
That, as is known, in Israel, too, feeds the pipeline for IJ and Hamas. Disaffected with the PA and Fatah they turn elsewhere for defense.
If you want to examine Israel's conduct the go-to in the West is to get an Israeli spokesperson on. Do you do that with the Russians? Rarely. Almost never.
Gary Lineker saying what he can't say on the BBC: "It's the worst thing I have seen in my lifetime. Constant images day in, day out of children losing their lives."
I assumed it was new but It's resurfaced from May last year.
I assumed it was new but It's resurfaced from May last year.
Israel blows up Gaza’s only specialised cancer hospital in massive blast
Likely another stray Palestinian rocket. Or an underground command centre.
Likely another stray Palestinian rocket. Or an underground command centre.
“Hamas had a base in that hospital” - some Zionist arsehole, probably
Hard not to take a lot of what is said about Israel personally. A lot of Jews, including myself identify with Israel. Lots of cognitive dissonance. I've had to re-evaluate my beliefs.
I know you say this as a joke but they still find ways to justify it. It's incredible, we even had people here when the massacre first started arguing until they were blue that they do not target civilian infrastructure and hospitals, now they are nowhere to be seen.
Interestingly, Fatah have called on Hamas to step down from governance as a continuation of the conflict will lead to the end of Palestinians’ existence.
It’s difficult to say but they’re not wrong. I see this as a genuinely existential period for the Palestinians, perhaps the most dangerous period of time in their existence.
It’s difficult to say but they’re not wrong. I see this as a genuinely existential period for the Palestinians, perhaps the most dangerous period of time in their existence.
Have your beliefs changed at all ?
Several rockets fired from Lebanon towards Israel, plus several missiles were fired from Yemen in the last few days. Bibi gets the full escalation he worked for.
It's the right sentiment from Fatah. If there's going to be a cessation to the latest round of violence, it will come by way of returning hostages and negotiating an exit strategy for any remaining members of the Hamas hierarchy.
Yes they have. I used to be a bit naive about Israel. I have been there twice, and lived there for a year. Was a long time ago but I have a strong emotional connection to it. Some of my (distant) relatives live there too.
I speak Hebrew too.
Anyway, long story short, I would call myself a would-be Zionist - would be in the sense that I don't see an issue with there being a primarily Jewish state, but not in the actualisation of it and what it has become.
Zionism, from my point of view was is just a word to identify oneself as believing in the right for Jewish self-determination, just not at anyone else's expense.
It is hard to articulate this point of view without the fear that I'm going to be met with an onslaught of messages from those who are understandably angry, as the term 'Zionism' has now become anathema
But I certainly no longer perceive Israel in a positive light whatseover. It has made me feel obligated to perform a 'mitzvah' and donate to causes to help Gazans, which is not something I would have done without re-evaluating my own beliefs.
That's the fundamental issue with the word Zionist isn't it. One side view it as a patriotic appeal for a right of a nation to exist (rendering those who oppose it anti-semitic), where another side view it as a colonialist project that favors the rights of one group over another (hence the apartheid references). The meaning of words obviously migrates over time, but if one thing has happened over the past 18 months, its caused mainstream society to question whether having countries based on religious nationalism is worthy of continued support.
Very fair points, however I think the division is more nuanced.
It's not necessarily a patriotic thing; it is, for many a desire for a sanctuary borne out from centuries of persecution.
Personally, that also comes from being a descendant of Holocaust survivors and having learnt all the stories from them.
It is but mere happenstance that I was born in Australia, as when my grandma got out of the camp, she had one surviving relative (a 3rd cousin) who told her to move to Australia because she had a friend there.
If that didn't happen, I would almost certainly be an Israeli.
Those who have been persecuted historically perhaps might understandably feel the need for a home.
I will caveat this just as I did previously - not at anyone else's expense.
I’m kinda like this myself. Thought ultimately, as an anarchist, I want there to be no states. I personally support a binational state.
I think you’ve articulated it very well and are brave in trying to do so. It’s a mature and balanced view you have and I don’t think anyone here will having anything but respect for it.
This is actually a reassuring post as it shows people can change their mind. Most shouldn't have an issue with what you have said as you've clealry outlined such a state shouldn't come at the expense of others.
What most people want is equity and justice, either through a 2 state solution (imo is becoming impossible due to all the settlements) or a single democratic state where all have equal rights (this imo is the most just route). However, the way things are going and the route Israel is taking this is only going to end in disaster for the region and possibly the world as Israel is nuclear armed.
I think something Israel’s recent trajectory has brought into sharp relief, for me anyway, is the inadequacy of the terms “Zionism” and “Zionist” in usefully helping us understand what exactly we are talking about. The crucial question I think now (beyond the immediate urgency to bring an end to this murderous campaign) is not whether one identifies, like you, with Israel or Zionism to some degree, but simply whether or not they believe that non-Jews should have the same equal rights that Jews do within whatever functional framework of Israel/Palestine. There doesn’t seem to be any meaningful middle ground left, if there ever was. In any case I think we will find people who identify as Zionist and as non/anti-Zionist on both sides of that question.