What pexbo said. Good on you, @johnnyteutonic.
In other news, somebody told me today that Stormzy deleted his Palestine-friendly past tweets in order to ink his recent McDonald's deal.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In other news, somebody told me today that Stormzy deleted his Palestine-friendly past tweets in order to ink his recent McDonald's deal.
Hadar Cohen speaks about being born and growing up in Israel on the latest Bad Hasbara, her religious Judaism, and the non religious land based and cultural Jewish identities.
Even if you don't appreciate Lieb and Mate strong anti-zionist stance, this is an enlightening episode.
She also has her own podcast about Jewish scripture which is good.
Even if you don't appreciate Lieb and Mate strong anti-zionist stance, this is an enlightening episode.
She also has her own podcast about Jewish scripture which is good.
I feel the same way. The way Zionism is now used as an exonym has changed and is a catch-all that does not reflect the Jewish experience which does come in many different flavours.
Perhaps Kahanism is a somewhat better designator of what most people would rail against, or ultra-nationalism, for some, who aren't religious who still identify strongly with the Israeli polity and defend it staunchly.
As to your last point, I think that most people I know personally feel at least some pangs of compassion for Palestinians, but they're unfortunately too set in their ways when it comes to their beliefs.
@Salt Bailly @Pexbo @Fenômeno thanks for your support, it is nice to see that there are plenty of people here who understand where I'm coming from.
Reasonable Israeli position.
Scary thing about today s time in the US in particular is that by Trump having declared open season through DoJ and ICE on anyone daring to speak in favor or Palestinian rights whether on social media, protest etc - is that it probably kills dissent within Jewish ranks with it. I've spoken with plenty of Jews who abhor what is happening in Gaza and had to already be careful around the more extreme elements of their own "side". They now will think twice even more for fears of being targeted by our very own government. Once again, the hypocrisy isn't lost on me.
Good long article on Meir Kahane and the triumph of his genocidal vision in today’s Israel - https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...en-gvir-long-dead-extremist?CMP=share_btn_url
There’s a book on Kahane’s thought by Shaul Magid cited there which I highly recommend to anyone interested in the subject, was one of the best books I read last year.
There’s a book on Kahane’s thought by Shaul Magid cited there which I highly recommend to anyone interested in the subject, was one of the best books I read last year.
Even if you suppose the world’s most dangerous most despicable man was in that tent, Israel could’ve taken him out with a small drone bomb
To use a giant bunker buster on tents shows how the carnage of civilians is the goal, the alleged “target” is merely the pretext.
Genocide!
To use a giant bunker buster on tents shows how the carnage of civilians is the goal, the alleged “target” is merely the pretext.
Genocide!
Hossem Shabat, one of the most prolific young journalist voices and recognizable faces on social media in Gaza over the last 18 months, was murdered by an IDF airstrike yesterday. He was 23.
I just don't have any words anymore
I have a question for the Muslim members of the Caf/this thread, as a non-Muslim.
I have been regularly attending the national protests in London and have been pleased to see many people from all religions and races and nationalities coming together to protest this genocide.
I have also been to local protests in my town, which has a large Pakistani community, and there has been an equally diverse group of people.
However, at a recent local protest, I was stunned by the level of apathy shown amongst the Pakistani Muslim community when we were handing out flyers and trying to engage.
The protest was at Asda, against them stocking Israeli products produced in illegal Israeli settlements, and the staff at Asda, most of whom were Muslims, were aggressive towards us even though we were peacefully protesting. They didn’t seem to know much about what is happening in Palestine, nor cared much when we talked to them.
I feel this is indicative of how the Arab states have responded too.
Interested to hear of other peoples experiences and thoughts on this and whether this disparity among Muslims is the main thing holding back the Palestinian freedom movement?
I have been regularly attending the national protests in London and have been pleased to see many people from all religions and races and nationalities coming together to protest this genocide.
I have also been to local protests in my town, which has a large Pakistani community, and there has been an equally diverse group of people.
However, at a recent local protest, I was stunned by the level of apathy shown amongst the Pakistani Muslim community when we were handing out flyers and trying to engage.
The protest was at Asda, against them stocking Israeli products produced in illegal Israeli settlements, and the staff at Asda, most of whom were Muslims, were aggressive towards us even though we were peacefully protesting. They didn’t seem to know much about what is happening in Palestine, nor cared much when we talked to them.
I feel this is indicative of how the Arab states have responded too.
Interested to hear of other peoples experiences and thoughts on this and whether this disparity among Muslims is the main thing holding back the Palestinian freedom movement?
I think they are afraid of losing their jobs, being pro Palestinian (esp of immigrant background) can lead to dire consequences in some western countries. Just look at what is happening in Germany and the US. Of course, there are some who probably don't care, but i don't think this is the majority.
There is generally a strong support for Palestine amongst UK Muslims, if you want proof look at how they voted in the last election, Labour lost a few safe seats and majorities were cut down significantly, even Wes Streeting survived by the skin of his teeth over the issue.
This is not to say Arab and other Muslim states under current US aligned leadership are a roadblock towards the Palestine freedom movement.
This is Hossam’s team, and we are sharing his final message :
“If you’re reading this, it means I have been killed—most likely targeted—by the Israeli occupation forces. When this all began, I was only 21 years old—a college student with dreams like anyone else. For past 18 months, I have dedicated every moment of my life to my people. I documented the horrors in northern Gaza minute by minute, determined to show the world the truth they tried to bury. I slept on pavements, in schools, in tents—anywhere I could. Each day was a battle for survival. I endured hunger for months, yet I never left my people’s side.
By God, I fulfilled my duty as a journalist. I risked everything to report the truth, and now, I am finally at rest—something I haven’t known in the past 18 months . I did all this because I believe in the Palestinian cause. I believe this land is ours, and it has been the highest honor of my life to die defending it and serving its people.
I ask you now: do not stop speaking about Gaza. Do not let the world look away. Keep fighting, keep telling our stories—until Palestine is free.”
— For the last time, Hossam Shabat, from northern Gaza.
“If you’re reading this, it means I have been killed—most likely targeted—by the Israeli occupation forces. When this all began, I was only 21 years old—a college student with dreams like anyone else. For past 18 months, I have dedicated every moment of my life to my people. I documented the horrors in northern Gaza minute by minute, determined to show the world the truth they tried to bury. I slept on pavements, in schools, in tents—anywhere I could. Each day was a battle for survival. I endured hunger for months, yet I never left my people’s side.
By God, I fulfilled my duty as a journalist. I risked everything to report the truth, and now, I am finally at rest—something I haven’t known in the past 18 months . I did all this because I believe in the Palestinian cause. I believe this land is ours, and it has been the highest honor of my life to die defending it and serving its people.
I ask you now: do not stop speaking about Gaza. Do not let the world look away. Keep fighting, keep telling our stories—until Palestine is free.”
— For the last time, Hossam Shabat, from northern Gaza.
Heartbreaking. RIP Hossam
wtf!? Is this real?? I can’t believe this!
Fear of losing jobs or immigration status. General despair and a need to deal with their own problems. Palestine is spoken about at every mosque I've ever been to.
The notion that disparity among Muslims being the main thing holding back Palestinian freedom is quite frankly absurd. My emotions are a bit raw today so I may come off too harsh here, but to suggest that Muslims don't do enough for Palestine when Western countries are sending billions worth of bombs to Israel, and have done so for decades, all the while voting against the most minor Palestinian UN resolutions and ignoring all treaty obligations to uphold human rights... I'm sorry but that is a rage inducing thought to me. Muslims are censored, fired, deported and ostracized every day for expressing even the most mild support of Palestine, or similarly mild criticism of Israel.
Western colonialism is the main thing holding back the Palestinian freedom movement.
This is so normal to me that I barely bat an eye. Israel does not allow any Palestinian who attains any kind of world recognition to live. This has been the case for decades.
I appreciate and respect your interest and passion for a cause that (presumably) you would have the option of walking away from, burying your head in the sand etc. I encourage you to continue asking questions and learning just how long, and how horrible, this struggle has been.
I fully agree about western countries being the main reason holding back the Palestinian cause. And western colonialism is the root cause of many geopolitical issues around the world, including the state of affairs in India and Pakistan over the last 100 years or so.
My question is based on the responses and apathy I have seen and experienced first hand and by talking to Muslims. We spoke to many worshippers at the mosque on Friday and only 2-3 turned up for the protests, with many walking past us.
My own community have suffered for centuries from persecution ourselves, so we understand more than most and there are a large contingent in my community who have held us back also, so I speak from experience.
My question is not aimed at inducing rage, it is a question based on the fact that the response of Arab nations has been poor, and nothing more than condemnations and statements rather than concrete action.
And to answer your question, I am well aware of the history of this issue and how long the Palestinians have suffered. This is not something I can walk away from or bury my head in the sand, because once you know the truth and have seen what we have all seen, there is no walking away from it. This is something that I think about or worry about constantly.
This is a euphemism for getting rid of all Palestinians in Gaza one way or another and that Western media still reports it in that manner just reinforces their complicity.
Everybody has their own lives and struggles mate, job security and a downward spiralling world economy means people have put the Israel/Palestine issue down the list of problems. I still believe the younger generation (21 and under) are invested in the issue but people of my generation (50 and above) have too many other things to think about.
Where are all the cnuts who like to talk about the lack of non-violent Palestinian resistance?
Nobody who reads that whole post can have anything but a degree of admiration for you I reckon.
I can't even discuss this anymore. It's just so fecking sad. The inevitability of it hurts like hell. I've been 'watching' this happen with horror of varying degrees for over 3 decades now. One long slow elimination of a people who are basically just reduced to being an inconvenience. It's vile. And there are so many people complicit. I know people call for reason and dialogue but you can't reason with a bullet or a bomb coming at you. And at varying speeds there are bullets and bombs coming at every Palestinian.
The Zionist Nazi bastards make you think they can't get any worse...and then the past week takes place.
fecking vermin
Fair enough. I think there's a lot of nuance that needs to be applied when looking at the actions of Arab states today. There have been numerous attempts at concrete action, all of which have been beaten down by the West and Arab states have suffered greatly as a result. Then you need to look at the leadership of many Arab states today, who are either under political threat if they do take any action, or have been placed as leaders (or propped up etc) to nullify their constituents opposition to Israel's actions. Anyone who takes concrete action will be annihilated by Uncle Sam. There are massive rallies against the genocide in various Arab states, but those sentiments are either watered down or avoided by the political leaders.
To put it bluntly, the Western world has been very successful over the last hundred years in neutering Muslim states and geopolitical power through pretty much every means you can think of.
As for the individual level and your experiences, I can't pretend to know a thing about your individual community. Perhaps those Muslims are apathetic, or decline to speak for some other reason. I appreciate your clarification re: main reason holding back and I agree that Palestine is far from the only place that's been fecked, for lack of a better term, by Western colonialism.
The answer to his last question seems to be no.
A couple of weeks ago a friend sent me a screenshot of my sms messenger where my profile picture was a football fan holding a banner saying free palestine. That screenshot was from 1999. I was a just a kid watching the terrible images from the massacres in east timor and for the first time going to protests and pay attention to politics. Their independence came in 2002, I remember the celebrations on tv and of timorese refugees in lisbon. In my naivety, seeing the same type of violence in palestine, I was convinced the outcome surely had to be the same for palestinians, the world couldn't treat people suffering the same in different ways. How fecking wrong I was.
The feeling of powerlessness is sickening and I'm just a random guy sitting on my couch a continent away, who never suffered any inconvenience from what israelis do. As much as I like to think I'm a rational guy, I'm pretty much convinced that if I were a palestinian living in palestine, I would've joined hamas many moons ago. You just succumb to the feeling that only violence can actually achieve something.
Some more videos of this incident have emerged. Settler terrorists attacked him and whilst he tried to flee the IOF came in and backed them up and took him.
I can't speak for the Asda staff, but I have resigned myself to knowing that nothing I can do will help. I boycott all Israeli goods I come across, but I know politically there are zero options. My protests are now worthless. Every single UK politician is controlled by or fearful of the zionist lobby. No political party is willing to treat Israel like the criminal state it is. Who are my protests and letters appealing to? I might as well by sending them to Israel directly.
The Muslim world is even worse. The Arab states, especially the Egyptians and the Gulf Arabs are more pro zionist than Europe. All thier "leaders" are tyrants serving America. Turkey is no difference and Pakistan is committing atrocities against its own people. It's number 1 at licking the shoes of American politicians.
Palestine is doomed to genocide until the day Muslims revolt against thier own governments, take back control of thier countries and can organise a military campaign to liberate Palestine.
There is no political solution to this. We've seen political leaders across the world line up to kiss the Israeli ring whilst they wipe out the Palestinians Street by street.
The only man I had any hope in is Imran Khan - former PM of Pakistan and he is currently in jail on trumped up charges.
I get your point but you have to bear in mind it's been 18 months of this. I've been going to the protests since 2023, but I haven't gone to any recently. I can blame it on having a 2nd baby, and 2 jobs and this and that...but the deeper truth is I feel despondent. I feel depressed. I feel it doesn't make a difference. We've been watching in real time a native population be wiped out, raped, tortured, maimed and all the while our politicians, media, and establishments are unhappy that the Palestinians aren't suffering in silence. Israel has a carte blanche to do what they want - endorsed by Biden, Harris, and Trump. The most powerful nation in the world patting themselves on the back.
The current situation is a travesty. I'm under no illusion how privileged I am to be sitting here typing that I'm despondent whilst there's people in Gaza living in tents watching bombs fall on top of them. In olden times, the people would mobilise and put these leader's heads on spikes at the city gates. But we've been brow beaten in every facet of society. Students aren't allowed to support Palestine, employees aren't allowed to support Palestine, footballers are being threatened for supporting Palestine, the media is diminishing Palestinian voices and amplifying the Israeli take. It's an absolute joke.
I imagine all the people you've spoken to feel the same way as I do.
The world is sick.