Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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An unambiguous ceasefire breach before phase 2, which required Israeli withdrawal, with US approval. Where now? There was clearly no intent to end this.
Trump=peace. I mean PEACE!
There was never an intent to end it. The Israeli position is to get as many hostages out, then go back in and continue pursuing Hamas until they're out. The Hamas position is to use the remaining hostages as leverage to negotiate a final deal that would allow them to remain in power. That's obviously unacceptable to Netanyahu, so the fighting was always destined to resume once the hostage swaps stopped.
Racim obviously plays a role. When it's mentioned, it's not aimed at the entire population but mainly at the ruling class. Israel also literally does the same things in your 2nd point and even more transparently than Russia.
What fighting?
Hamas has already welcomed the call for a change in leadership in Gaza and offered to lay down arms over a period of time in which Israel would withdraw all forces, with a clear plan for a two state solution.
This is not about getting rid of Hamas. After all it is Israel who backed Hamas in the past. This is about genocide and ethnic cleansing, and creating conditions to facilitate that politically, and creating conditions on the ground in Gaza that would lead to a mass exodus of Palestinians or a slow death from diseases and famine.
The puzzling thing is, for all the attempted smoke and mirrors, the world can see through the BS that Israel and its allies puts out, and it seems Israel isn’t even trying to pretend that it has any regard for its hostages, let alone the civilians of Gaza. It has started another killing rampage and won’t stop until all the Palestinians are dead or expelled.
This is not about getting rid of Hamas. After all it is Israel who backed Hamas in the past. This is about genocide and ethnic cleansing, and creating conditions to facilitate that politically, and creating conditions on the ground in Gaza that would lead to a mass exodus of Palestinians or a slow death from diseases and famine.
The puzzling thing is, for all the attempted smoke and mirrors, the world can see through the BS that Israel and its allies puts out, and it seems Israel isn’t even trying to pretend that it has any regard for its hostages, let alone the civilians of Gaza. It has started another killing rampage and won’t stop until all the Palestinians are dead or expelled.
I echo other posters in stating the accusations of racism are directed at the ruling elite and governments in Europe and North America.
But to answer your point about Ukraine being on Europe’s doorstep, how far do you think Palestine is from Europe? It is on the Mediterranean and a short hop from Cyrus.
The difference in response is because the victims of the violence don’t look like Europeans. It may be subconscious racism but I think it is there.
This is not to be critical of the millions across those western countries who have marched and protested and have called for Palestinian human rights rights to be respected however.
There are good and bad human beings all over the world. It’s just the good ones need to stick together and stand up to the rise in racism across the board.
That's obviously not going to happen given the current Israeli position, which is Gaza without Hamas. At the end of the day both sides are offering things that are completely unacceptable to the other, which is why the conflict isn't going to end anytime soon.
The strategic positioning of both nations is completely different.
Gaza is, for all intents and purposes, a tiny country in both resources and population, have no power projection, and regardless of what happens on a moral level pose no real problems to European geo-strategic thinking.
Russia invading Ukraine is completely, completely different. There is no historical or geopolitical "enemy" for the West in the Levant.
"Being on Europe's doorstep" is not a little statement but a turn of phrase.
The West reacts based on impact it could have on its position, which is why things like Syria and Egypt took huge precedence, whereas the Kurds being locked in skirmishes with Turkey or Iraqi Shia/Sunni sectarian violence gets practically no notice. Biggest case in point of this is more Iraqi's have died from Sectarian violence since 2015 than ISIS, yet ISIS was plastered all over the news and nobody cares about Sunni's vs Shia in Iraq.
It has very little to do with racism.
Trump sent a guy to negotiate with Hamas an end to the genocide and getting the hostages back and they even agreed to dilute their power significantly, this got leaked to the zionists and they made sure he got fired. It's what happens to one of the few in the American political class that's not owned by the Israelis.
Its also a matter of location. The politics of the west is framed within the context of US and European interests, so the news sources within these places are always going to conform to the views of western audiences. The events of far away are less interesting unless they play a direct role in the domestic affairs of western nations.
@Amir any chance Baharav-Miara will be able to block Ben Gvir’s return? Seems to be some talk of a stand-off but I can’t tell how it might play out (I don’t know anything about her).
The progress that European governments have done in the last century is commendable. They now support genocide in a non-racist way.
It has everything to do with racism. And Islamophobia in particular.
Are you denying the fact that western foreign policy has targeted Muslim nations more than any other over the past 50 years?
We all saw the weapons of mass destruction that they uncovered in Iraq didn’t we?
It is clear the violence and military campaigns in Muslim nations, be it Afghanistan, Iraq etc are little more than modern day Crusades.
The colonial mindset has not changed when it comes to viewing the Muslim world or the global south as inferior and their lands as fair game for plundering, or their people as dispensable.
If Ukraine and its conflict with Russia has a direct impact on Europe, then surely we should view what is happening in the Middle East with the same attention and care?
Instability in the ME has already had ramifications on global markets and supply chains eg the Red Sea shipping routes, and hence the cost of goods and services. Is this not linked to what is happening in Gaza?
The West can do all the mental gymnastics it likes to justify its position but it is clear there are double standards at play here and, it may not be nice to hear or confront, it is rooted in racism.
It's a possibility, at least for a while.
Of course, the government is also trying to sack her! So I'm not even sure if they'll listen to her, which will mean this will be taken to court.
130 children in one night. Just read that again.
If it were the other way round we wouldn't be allowed to stop hearing about it, and there'd be global sigils and the mother of all responses, backed by the international community.
But yet these Zionist fascists continue killing women and children left right and centre to not even a whimper of condemnation from the usual powers.
If it were the other way round we wouldn't be allowed to stop hearing about it, and there'd be global sigils and the mother of all responses, backed by the international community.
But yet these Zionist fascists continue killing women and children left right and centre to not even a whimper of condemnation from the usual powers.
Good point, for Israel it's easy to 'fight' all they have to do is get their pilots into fighter jets, operate remote control drones or fire artillery shells from a safe distance. It's unbelievable cruel to carry this on.
Israel is ramping up annexation of West Bank, UN rights chief says
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...on-west-bank-un-rights-chief-says-2025-03-18/
I understand the need to support Ukraine due to the Russian aspect and the fact we all share the same continent/land mass and all of the geopolitical reasons as to why.
I also find it hugely immoral and massively hypocritical, not to mention inhumane that the majority of the worlds governments stay silent on the Palestinian tragedies. The same as I find the support and defence of Israel by these countries immensely disgusting and sickening.
The two aren't mutually exclusive and it is possible to hold both views without being intellectually lazy as you put it.
This is just not true and maybe you’re just not aware of the scale of Russian cyberattacks against infrastructure all across Europe (happening daily) and other diversion activities. Not to mention Israel didn’t assassinate/try to assassinate as many targets in the recent 10-20 years in Europe. It’s not even close.
I will not challenge you on hypocrisy of the West or the issue of morality in politics, I’m all aware the West is hypocritical and I’m appalled by this myself as a part of that society. Although as a history aficionado I’m yet to find a regime all around the world that wasn’t massively hypocritical.
What I called intellectually lazy was just assuming the fact Europeans are not going to fight against Israel (I can’t speak for the US or Canada) is only due to racism.
You have to laugh at all these attempts at framing this as some sort of normal geopolitical conflict. Israeli society is focused on genocide, we see it in their leaders, we see it on their television, we read it in their newspapers, we see it on their social media, it's reflected in the way people vote. They want genocide, they don't try to hide it. But then we have non-israelis telling us is not really about that, it's about hamas, or land, or whatever normal considerations people make in normal conflicts.
I'll have to disagree on one point - Hamas had already agreed a deal with the mediators that another set of administrators would take over the running of the Gaza Strip.
It's nothing to do with them now, Netanyahu is not fighting for hostages or anything else but his own interest and for Trump to have his disgusting tacky version of the 'trump riviera' - all at the expense of bombing women and children to pieces.
You know how criminal the western media is when there was not even a whisper when Yoav Gallant admitted that they employed the Hannibal directive and ended up killing a lot of their own people on Oct 7th. That's just one example. They were always intent on genocide. Hamas provided the perfect excuse for them to justify their rampage and no one it seems will stop them.
I would say islamaphobia and racism figure highly but are not the only reasons. The strong support of Israel and the almost unconditional defence of their actions is right up there too. The reasons for such support are more intertwined with money and politics as well as prior history and relationships.
I do wonder how much of this was all preplanned? And I also wonder how much Trump has upset the apple cart with his 'Trump Gaza' adverts and the way he has seemingly positioned himself as the sole person who will control the future of the region and its people.
The adverts showing an upmarket idyllic seaside holiday resort with gold statues of him and Trump Towers Gaza prominently standing amongst the buildings are absolutely fecking disgusting. Truly despicable and completely without compassion, empathy or respect of the Palestinians still there and of what they have been subjected to for decades and for what they have all suffered for the last 18 months and continue to suffer with no apparent end in sight.
Biden for all his faults, and he had many and made many, especially regarding Israel/Palestine never advertised or openly condoned anything like that, despite his actual intentions or expectations.
The fact adverts like that were shrugged off and pretty much ignored shows just how the majority of the western worlds leaders and many of its citizens think of and look at Muslims and how differently they treat the Israelis.
The political and financial influence of the Israelis coupled with the cloud and shame of the holocaust shows the clear motivation behind those countries and leaders refusal to step in and stop this or negotiate a sincere and honest outcome that is not only fair to both sides, but also holds them accountable.
Some countries have stood up and spoken out, some international courts and organisations have made statements or after investigating have found Israel guilty of committing war crimes including ethnic cleansing and genocide but those rulings are just ridiculed, ignored or completely denied. Yet the Hamas charges are deemed fair and appropriate.
Yet more proof of the clear and obvious bias is recent events in the US where any pro Palestinian demonstration is considered pro Hamas and anti semetic and unconstitutional. Universities and colleges have been threatened with losing their funding and those involved with arrest and even deportation.
You would think, especially after the past 30 off years of multiple terror attacks around the world and the conflicts around the middle East, but especially in Iraq and Afghanistan, that the world would want a chance to do the right thing for once. You would have had hoped it would step in to help a population of mainly innocent people instead of ignoring them, denying it's happening, covering it up and even aiding the opposition with money and arms.
You would also hope they would come together especially in light of such an avoidable tragic human rights catastrophe. You would also hope it would listen to the millions of their citizens including many Israelis who protest against the war, the war crimes and the involvement of their own and other governments.
We talk about Trump abusing power but it's happening around the world and the safeguards many of us felt were in place to prevent things like this happening or at least step in and stop it have been revealed to be completely toothless and any rulings or findings are just ignored. The UN, ICC, ICJ and the like have been found to be powerless organisations whose rulings are not respected and either completely ignored or openly challenged, often with propaganda and outright lies.
It's no wonder many have lost faith in the systems put in place, which mirrors how many US citizens are feeling with regards to what's going on in the USA.
Finally, I think it's an incredibly dangerous game to play as it has the potential to cause more wars, more civil unrest and definitely more terrorist attacks from Islamic terrorist organisations who not only see the weakness and failures of our so called democratic safeguards and protections but also because of how yet again they are the ones being ignored and slaughtered. This time it's by the Jews but still supported, funded and defended by much of the West. It's also happening at the same time far right leaders and groups around the woeld, even clowns like Colin McGregor and Tommy Robinson are openly speaking out about the invasion of Muslims across Europe and around the world. Many don't say the quiet part out loud, but make no mistake, it's clear as fecking day what they mean.
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I hear hundreds of dead children, I see their bloody corpses show up on the timeline despite having gone to great length to try and block that type of material.
Then I come on here and read how "oh they're just going back for Hamas again".
The ZioNazis are the worst of the worst.
What do the Zionist Redcafe posters have to say in response to this?
Netanyahu's on a massive tantrum and it looks like he has every reason to be worried as it transpires that one of his advisors received payments from... Qatar.
He's trying to get rid of everyone who might investigate this seriously.
He's trying to get rid of everyone who might investigate this seriously.
Have Israel's internal checks and balances evaporated completely? Or is this one man rule slowly eroding all the things that prevented him from doing whatever he wanted (like Hungary, Turkey).
That's exactly it. He's been doing it for years, but now he's in overdrive.
USA?
Race to the bottom
The silence from the West is deafening.
Nobody with the balls to call this shit out for what it is.
Nobody with the balls to call this shit out for what it is.