Each preceding massacre seems to be getting forgotten in 3 days. Except for the one on Oct 7. We'll never to allowed to further that one.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Spying, hacking and intimidation: Israel’s nine-year ‘war’ on the ICC exposed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...g-hacking-intimidation-israel-war-icc-exposed
When the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court (ICC) announced he was seeking arrest warrants against Israeli and Hamas leaders, he issued a cryptic warning: “I insist that all attempts to impede, intimidate or improperly influence the officials of this court must cease immediately.”
Karim Khan did not provide specific details of attempts to interfere in the ICC’s work, but he noted a clause in the court’s foundational treaty that made any such interference a criminal offence. If the conduct continued, he added, “my office will not hesitate to act”.
The prosecutor did not say who had attempted to intervene in the administration of justice, or how exactly they had done so.
Now, an investigation by the Guardian and the Israeli-based magazines +972 and Local Call can reveal how Israel has run an almost decade-long secret “war” against the court. The country deployed its intelligence agencies to surveil, hack, pressure, smear and allegedly threaten senior ICC staff in an effort to derail the court’s inquiries.
Israeli intelligence captured the communications of numerous ICC officials, including Khan and his predecessor as prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda, intercepting phone calls, messages, emails and documents.
The surveillance was ongoing in recent months, providing Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, with advance knowledge of the prosecutor’s intentions. A recent intercepted communication suggested that Khan wanted to issue arrest warrants against Israelis but was under “tremendous pressure from the United States”, according to a source familiar with its contents.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...g-hacking-intimidation-israel-war-icc-exposed
When the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court (ICC) announced he was seeking arrest warrants against Israeli and Hamas leaders, he issued a cryptic warning: “I insist that all attempts to impede, intimidate or improperly influence the officials of this court must cease immediately.”
Karim Khan did not provide specific details of attempts to interfere in the ICC’s work, but he noted a clause in the court’s foundational treaty that made any such interference a criminal offence. If the conduct continued, he added, “my office will not hesitate to act”.
The prosecutor did not say who had attempted to intervene in the administration of justice, or how exactly they had done so.
Now, an investigation by the Guardian and the Israeli-based magazines +972 and Local Call can reveal how Israel has run an almost decade-long secret “war” against the court. The country deployed its intelligence agencies to surveil, hack, pressure, smear and allegedly threaten senior ICC staff in an effort to derail the court’s inquiries.
Israeli intelligence captured the communications of numerous ICC officials, including Khan and his predecessor as prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda, intercepting phone calls, messages, emails and documents.
The surveillance was ongoing in recent months, providing Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, with advance knowledge of the prosecutor’s intentions. A recent intercepted communication suggested that Khan wanted to issue arrest warrants against Israelis but was under “tremendous pressure from the United States”, according to a source familiar with its contents.
Very damning and not particularly surprising given that Bibi was involved by way of his proxy Cohen.
Coming up:
1. This was a “tragic mistake” or “we didn’t do it”.
2. The Biden administration is “concerned” about the loss of lives.
3. More aid to Israel to “defend itself”.
Not something I'd admit to if I'd written something even half as dumb as any one of your posts in this thread.
So, what's happening is this:
You said that the UN revised the estimate of dead women and children downwards by about half. An obvious interpretation of this claim is that the UN initially had an estimate that out of the total deaths it was believed that around X are women and children, but that it's now believed to be around X/2. If that's your claim, then you're wrong. What happened is that out of the estimated death toll, not all of these dead people have had their identities confirmed according to certain criteria, for obvious reasons. This revised estimate is the amount of dead women and children among the number of dead people with confirmed identities. This will obviously be lower than the total amount of dead women and children, as it is in for instance Ukraine, or as it was in Israel until they could identify all the people who died October 7. If this was what you tried to say, then I don't think it came off right.
You then claimed that the reason for revising downwards was because of Hamas being an unreliable source. That's wrong, I explained the reason above.
You also said that the default assumption should be that death toll numbers from Hamas are wrong and too high. This assumption of yours would lead to you being wrong about every single conflict involving Israel and Hamas through history. Every single one. Being wrong all the time is as impressive as being right all the time, and if your assumptions lead to something like this you should probably give it a second thought.
A couple of months ago I talked to someone about american support for the saudis in bombing yemen and believe it or not the guy brought up 9/11 and how americans have all the right to make sure it doesn't happen again.
That was me just being facetious. I know it's not incompetence, it's just them being themselves.
They are so brazen it’s unbelievable. Days after Netanyahu called the previous one a tragic mistake the exact same thing happens again.
I don’t think there is a line Israel won’t cross, and I’m beginning to doubt there is a red line for the U.S. at all.
Yep, it’s a complete and utter joke to them at this point.
According to our resident americans, it won't influence the election, so biden has no need to listen to those dissenting voices.
Zelenskiy (who always supported Israel) says he supports Spain's recognition of Palestine and supports a two-state solution.... 1, 2, 3 before his club fan among the pro-genocide team calls him an ignorant jew-hating antisemite...
Using Ben Rhodes as an example of dissent is pretty weak anyway. He’s not in the administration first of all - he’s just a podcaster now. And he will 110% still tell anyone who will listen to vote for Joe Biden.
I said this.
I stand by every word in that. People in here trusting literal monsters, Hamas, is beyond me. They didn't trust the numbers given by one Hamas branch based on lack of id, so they changed it to a different Hamas branch. Why? Because there are no other sources.
Yes, he's a podcaster now, which the tweeter probably knew but deliberately omitted for his audience. His views are no more relevant than those of the likes of Jen Psaki, Simone Sanders, and any number of former government employees now employed by various news networks.
Very proud of Ireland today recognising Palestine. The EU need to come together now and put pressure on, can't hide from what's going on. Has to be consequences to this, it can't continue.
It will be difficult without Germany, particularly now (two weeks before the European elections). It will be France again who needs to do it. Spain and Ireland are there, Italy is not. Not easy.
Saw a good take on twitter, "if you put enough red lines in front of each other it becomes a red carpet".
There was a time where France had much more nuanced and balanced position on the conflict and the Arab world in general. It also had true statestemen with a very distinct vision. This is not the case anymore and the terrorist attacks in 2015 played a part in that.
The current one is light-years away from a recognition especially with this government, the ever present islamophobia, and the European elections in sight. France has been very active in silencing and marginalizing any criticism of Israel and Pro-palestinian voice, they demonized the LFI party for their pro-palestinian stance, albeit without reaching Germany's repression which is in a league of its own. Then again, with the flip-flopper at the Élysée Palace, you never know.
A propos LFI, here's what of one of their Assembly members, Sébastien Delogu, did today. Watch the President of the Assembly blowing a gasket.
Italy will follow if enough EU countries do it but they're truly not in a hurry, especially with Meloni at the helm.
As for Germany, forget it. They'll be the last country in Europe to do it and that's not only due to their government. Only 38% of the German population is in favor of the recognition of Palestine and 50% against it.
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If anyone want to vomit. Give it a listen.
Agreed.
With Germany out of the equation, it has to be France. Otherwise, the EU won’t recognize a Palestinian state. If France does it, Belgium will join, maybe the Netherlands and other smaller countries. My guess is that Austria won’t unless Germany does.
It’s going to be a tough ask, but I remain optimistic that France will get there. Among the top 5 Western nations in the G-7, it remains the most reasonable one on this issue.
And, as you know, the president of the National Assembly is of the Jewish faith, so there is that too.
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U.S. aid deliveries to Gaza by sea suspended after damage to temporary pier
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-pier-us-aid-suspended-damage-temporary-rcna15
This impractical project cost $320 million and I don't think it delivered even any aid to Palestinians.
Like with bombing hospitals and people lining up for food, the first strike gets the coverage and the excuses, but the second onwards it becomes business as usual.
Spectacular retaliation against civilians has been an essential part of the Israeli Iron Wall since inception.
Oct 7 had 700 civilians and 400 military casulaties, for a military ratio of 36%. 36 children were killed, which is 3%.
The best case for Israel's war on Gaza has the ratio at 11k Hamas-affiliated figures (which includes govt people) in an (artificially low) total of 35k, a ratio of 31%. 14k children have been killed, which is 40%. More than 10 times, as a ratio, and 400 times, as absolute numbers, what Hamas killed.
If the latter "wants to kill civilians", specifically "children", what is the former? Don't bother answering. The numbers speak for themselves.
I'm tired of this rubbish. Human shields is a term used to denote humans, valuable to the person shooting, through him they would not shoot. We know that Gazzans aren't valuable to Israel, and that even in its guidelines, the IDF accepts between 20:1 and 100:1 civilian casualty ratios for a ""targeted strike"". It is not a human shield, it is just whoever happens to be living nearby.
It would have been more interesting to say that the Israeli hostages captured by Hamas are human shields, and I would have believed it, but as we have seen, they have been killed in substantial numbers by Israel's bombing. And many more were killed by Israel on Oct 7th. Even Israeli Jews, who are regarded as people by the state of Israel, are not effective human shields, because the state of Israel places its military objectives above their lives.
This, on the other hand, is how you use a human shield - placing him in front of yourself, knowing your enemy won't fire on him.
This is rubbish.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/13/middleeast/death-toll-gaza-fatalities-un-intl-latam/index.html
24k dead have been fully identified by Hamas' health ministry including their ID numbers (which Israel has access to), while at least 11k are not fully identified because the Health Ministry is now dysfunctional and cut off from large swathes of Gaza.
True.
Oct 7 had 700 civilians and 400 military casulaties, for a military ratio of 36%. 36 children were killed, which is 3%.
The best case for Israel's war on Gaza has the ratio at 11k Hamas-affiliated figures (which includes govt people) in an (artificially low) total of 35k, a ratio of 31%. 14k children have been killed, which is 40%. More than 10 times, as a ratio, and 400 times, as absolute numbers, what Hamas killed.
If the latter "wants to kill civilians", specifically "children", what is the former? Don't bother answering. The numbers speak for themselves.
I'm tired of this rubbish. Human shields is a term used to denote humans, valuable to the person shooting, through him they would not shoot. We know that Gazzans aren't valuable to Israel, and that even in its guidelines, the IDF accepts between 20:1 and 100:1 civilian casualty ratios for a ""targeted strike"". It is not a human shield, it is just whoever happens to be living nearby.
It would have been more interesting to say that the Israeli hostages captured by Hamas are human shields, and I would have believed it, but as we have seen, they have been killed in substantial numbers by Israel's bombing. And many more were killed by Israel on Oct 7th. Even Israeli Jews, who are regarded as people by the state of Israel, are not effective human shields, because the state of Israel places its military objectives above their lives.
This, on the other hand, is how you use a human shield - placing him in front of yourself, knowing your enemy won't fire on him.
This is rubbish.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/13/middleeast/death-toll-gaza-fatalities-un-intl-latam/index.html
24k dead have been fully identified by Hamas' health ministry including their ID numbers (which Israel has access to), while at least 11k are not fully identified because the Health Ministry is now dysfunctional and cut off from large swathes of Gaza.
True.
This is human shield...even kids
Really is sickening what is happening.
The West are horribly two faced.
The West are horribly two faced.
To those denouncing Hamas and not Israel. Let me tell you this.
Hamas is a resistance movement. Their aim is to establish a Palestinian state.
Their methods are at times unacceptable, but what are their options realistically? Diplomacy? With Israel? The Israelis have time and again announced they will not negotiate on a Palestinian state.
if you were faced with the same conditions as the Palestinians in your own country and oppressed by an occupation force which implement a system of apartheid, I guarantee you an organisation akin to Hamas would arise from that dire situation.
To those questioning death tolls, what does it really matter if it is 35,000 civilian deaths or 34,564? They are still civilian deaths and they are still atrocities. They are still war crimes. So what is your point? That a lower number somehow makes it ok?
apologists for genocide need to look themselves in the mirror and ask where their support for Israel comes from.
Hint: racism and Islamophobia.
Hamas is a resistance movement. Their aim is to establish a Palestinian state.
Their methods are at times unacceptable, but what are their options realistically? Diplomacy? With Israel? The Israelis have time and again announced they will not negotiate on a Palestinian state.
if you were faced with the same conditions as the Palestinians in your own country and oppressed by an occupation force which implement a system of apartheid, I guarantee you an organisation akin to Hamas would arise from that dire situation.
To those questioning death tolls, what does it really matter if it is 35,000 civilian deaths or 34,564? They are still civilian deaths and they are still atrocities. They are still war crimes. So what is your point? That a lower number somehow makes it ok?
apologists for genocide need to look themselves in the mirror and ask where their support for Israel comes from.
Hint: racism and Islamophobia.
Varoufakis, a known terrorist and Hamas supporter, has been banned from entering Germany which also barred him from engaging in any political activities in the country or from participating in similar exchanges on online platforms.
More on Israel's spying on the ICC.
Yeah, because Germany in particular are terrified of any criticism of Israel being heard. Did you read the speech he wasn’t allowed to give?
He’s not the issue here, and I couldn’t care less about his opinions or him being banned from entering Germany.
What I care about here is what Haley is doing. It doesn’t look good, to put it mildly. I used to like her despite her being Republican. She lost her way since joining the T administration in 2017. Disappointing.
I’m going to guess this is a meant to be a joke post.
Netherlands? Did you see who they elected?
Austria isn't dependent on Germany, this isn't WWII anymore. It's a very conservative, far-right leaning country though. So, ain't happening.
Edit: Removed a part of my post due to a massive blunder on my part. The Czech Republic, Hungary and Poland, as well as Bulgaria, Romania, already recognized Palestine in 1988 when they still were members of the Eastern Bloc.
France is an unknown at the moment. On principle it's always been favorable and its vote at the UN has always reflected this position, but its foreign policy is completely unpredictable at the moment. Since Sarkozy and especially with Macron, it largely vassalized itself to the US. It also has not only the biggest muslim community in Europe but also the biggest jewish one. It has a lot of conflicting interests and Macron's spine isn't strong enough to take a Chirac like decision, in my opinion. We'll see.
I know that but that's not the link I made. I'm reluctant to bring the someone's faith into politics, it's a slippery slope. Let's say that she's (very) pro-Israel, irrespective of her faith or descent. Watching her outrage was simply hilarious.
Well, here in Germany and in Europe some do. He was the former greek Finance Minister. It indicates how far gone Germany is.
Edit: Holy crap, my bad, I missed that it was Haley who was signing autographs. Way to go.
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It does seem like she is indeed in Israel. Obviously he means Haley, but yes. The picture looks real as far as I can tell.
Not that there should be anyone on Earth expecting a Biden loss to improve this massacre, but here's some more evidence that you're wrong.
It's hard to imagine how it could be worse, tough.