Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Giggsyking said:


@B. Munich

I asked you yesterday the same question, Amnesty is asking today. Can you provide me with an answer as you said you were more informed about it? Why was dr Ghassan denied entry to Germany?
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You called us a shameful country because police dispersed the Palestinian Congress.

I gave you the reason why the police cut off the electricity and disbanded the meeting.
A well-known antisemite was holding a hate speech against Israel (via video) despite being barred of any political activity in Germany. The organizers were surely aware of this and that it is an absolute NOGO in Germany.

I don't who Dr Ghassan is and I don't know why he wasn't allowed to enter Germany.

No idea what Varoufakis had to do there. He was a failure as finance minister and since then his only purpose in life became throwing shit on Germany. So forgive me of not taking tweets of this clown seriously. He obviously doesn't even know what fascism means.
 
Varoufakis is a joke and shouldn't be listened to. Doesn't change the fact that even this broken clock might have been right for once
 
B. Munich said:
You called us a shameful country because police dispersed the Palestinian Congress.

I gave you the reason why the police cut off the electricity and disbanded the meeting.
A well-known antisemite was holding a hate speech against Israel (via video) despite being barred of any political activity in Germany. The organizers were surely aware of this and that it is an absolute NOGO in Germany.
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You understand the semi-circular logic inherent in saying "Germany banning this guy isn't bad because they previously banned this guy", no?
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
You understand the semi-circular logic inherent in saying "Germany banning this guy isn't bad because they previously banned this guy", no?
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I mean that depends on the reason this guy was banned, right?

I don't know anything about that, but surely banning him for good reason in the past would lend credence to doing it again
 
B. Munich said:
You called us a shameful country because police dispersed the Palestinian Congress.

I gave you the reason why the police cut off the electricity and disbanded the meeting.
A well-known antisemite was holding a hate speech against Israel (via video) despite being barred of any political activity in Germany. The organizers were surely aware of this and that it is an absolute NOGO in Germany.

I don't who Dr Ghassan is and I don't know why he wasn't allowed to enter Germany.

No idea what Varoufakis had to do there. He was a failure as finance minister and since then his only purpose in life became throwing shit on Germany. So forgive me of not taking tweets of this clown seriously. He obviously doesn't even know what fascism means.
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You don't know why he's banned but because he's banned it's perfectly legitimate to break up the meeting? Critical thinking is at an all time low.
 
Israel can literally do what they want, kill who they want and bomb who they want. After everything what they did, Big Brother says: "We will defend Israel".
Unbelievable.
 
hellhunter said:
I mean that depends on the reason this guy was banned, right?
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B. Munich referenced an essay that Salman Abu Sitta wrote. The essay is here: I could have been one of those who broke through the siege on October 7. You are welcome to read it.

I don't agree with all the sentiments expressed there. But they are no different in nature than what Zionists say about Israel and the IDF day in, day out. To think that the sentiments are scandalous, ban-worthy hate speech when expressed about one group, and completely normal when expressed about the other, is precisely the reason people are criticizing Germany.
 
Raven said:
You don't know why he's banned but because he's banned it's perfectly legitimate to break up the meeting? Critical thinking is at an all time low.
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You seem to mix things up here.The meeting was cancelled because of Salman Abu Sitta holding a hate speech (via video call) despite being banned of any political activity in Germany.

Dr Ghassan is a different person (at least to my understanding) and he isn't the reason why the police disbanded the meeting.
 
B. Munich said:
You better get the whole information about the incident before you insult Germany.

At this event the radical Palestinian activist Salman Abu Sitta spoke via video conference despite being banned from entering Germany and of any political activity. Abu Sitta vigorously defended the Hamas massacre on October 7th and further said: "If he were younger, he would have taken part in the terrorist attack himself."

While I'm all for free speech but there are limits and this nutter definitely broke them.
Everybody who knows our history, will understand that such people and/or events will never have a place or voice in Germany.
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This seems a rather simplistic representation of what he said? Did Germany ban Ehud Barak from entering?
 
africanspur said:
This seems a rather simplistic representation of what he said? Did Germany ban Ehud Barak from entering?
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I never heard about this guy and his political views before yesterday. I don't follow Palestinian extremists.

Many German media outlets reported he explitely defended/justified the Hamas terrorists attacks of October 7th. An absolute NOGO.
Therefore, he was banned from entering and any political activities in Germany. This Palestinian Congress tried to circumvent the ban by letting him spread his hate via video call and banning journalists from reporting about the event.
Again a violation of the German constitution.

If you want to hold a congress in Germany you have to follow the rules and laws of the country like in every other country too. Simple as that.
 
B. Munich said:
I never heard about this guy and his political views before yesterday. I don't follow Palestinian extremists.

Many German media outlets reported he explitely defended/justified the Hamas terrorists attacks of October 7th. An absolute NOGO.
Therefore, he was banned from entering and any political activities in Germany. This Palestinian Congress tried to circumvent the ban by letting him spread his hate via video call and banning journalists from reporting about the event.
Again a violation of the German constitution.

If you want to hold a congress in Germany you have to follow the rules and laws of the country like in every other country too. Simple as that.
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So without reading what exactly he's written, and having never read about his views before, you've decided that he's a Palestinian extremist.

Was the guy who said this banned from Germany?

I would have joined one of the terrorist organizations at a certain stage
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A 14 year old Israeli settler was murdered in the West Bank. Somehow I doubt the settlers will let the police do their work. It's going to be a big, violent mess.
 
I know that geopolitics is full of hypocrisy but this is another level. Israel bombs foreign embassy in other country and USA's official statement is that they are behind Israel 100%. Imagine that one country destroys USA's embassy (and kills USA's citizens). They would be carpet bombed next day.
 
B. Munich said:
You called us a shameful country because police dispersed the Palestinian Congress.

I gave you the reason why the police cut off the electricity and disbanded the meeting.
A well-known antisemite was holding a hate speech against Israel (via video) despite being barred of any political activity in Germany. The organizers were surely aware of this and that it is an absolute NOGO in Germany.

I don't who Dr Ghassan is and I don't know why he wasn't allowed to enter Germany.

No idea what Varoufakis had to do there. He was a failure as finance minister and since then his only purpose in life became throwing shit on Germany. So forgive me of not taking tweets of this clown seriously. He obviously doesn't even know what fascism means.
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You did read my post yesterday, i quite clearly stated my comment was not based solely on this incident, if you have followed the thread, you would undersand. Germany's stance in this war has been nothing but utterly shameful.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
To think that the sentiments are scandalous, ban-worthy hate speech when expressed about one group, and completely normal when expressed about the other, is precisely the reason people are criticizing Germany.
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I quote from your linked article

"Nothing can hide the determination and courage of those young people who returned to their land on October 7. I could have been one of them had I been much younger and still living in the concentration camp called Gaza."

The guy is glorifying the October 7th massacres. If you this is fine with you, okay, but in Germany it isn't. There is no place for such views, rightfully so.

This Dr. Ghassan seems to be the son and also expressed sympathies for the October 7th terrorists. If Wikipedia is correct he is under investigation of the Scottish university in Glasgow where he is lecturing.
 
Pexbo said:
That’s another war crime isn’t it?
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It's not the first hundred years old buildings they have destroyed, there have been a few of those. A 1600-year-old church earlier in October was also bombed.
 
Sweet Square said:
Insane

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Germans would want to be on high alert, their leaders are getting very authoritarian. Interesting given the legalisation of weed and the loosening of trans laws, perhaps they're throwing out these decent policies to keep the average German's mind away from the genocide their country is sponsoring.
 
africanspur said:
So without reading what exactly he's written, and having never read about his views before, you've decided that he's a Palestinian extremist.
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I didn't decide anything. It's the German government which made the decision to ban him from entering the country and any political activity here.
I'm pretty sure the people who made this decision had much better information and knowledge than you or I have.
 
B. Munich said:
The guy is glorifying the October 7th massacres. If you this is fine with you, okay, but in Germany it isn't. There is no place for such views, rightfully so.
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As I said, there is no difference between the glorification of October 7th attacks and the glorification (and execution!) of the much more devastating attacks on Gaza that have been happening since then. To ban one and not the other is wrong. "We did the Holocaust and feel bad" is not a justification. In fact we have a phrase for this, "two wrongs don't make a right."

An analogy would be that you have a child. You routinely abuse the child and keep them in a cage, which is bad. You attempt to atone, by protecting your child and treatimg them well. That's good.

Then your child commits multiple murders. You don't want them in jail so you cover up their crimes. And when caught you insist "hey I know what I'm doing I used to keep the child in a cage".
 
Raven said:
Germans would want to be on high alert, their leaders are getting very authoritarian. Interesting given the legalisation of weed and the loosening of trans laws, perhaps they're throwing out these decent policies to keep the average German's mind away from the genocide their country is sponsoring.
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Nah.

They're still on their guilt trip, with a good chunk of them either completely indifferent or absolutely loving what Israel's doing. There are growing dissenting voices especially amongst the younger generations, but they're a drop in the ocean at the moment. Everything is made to silence them anyway and the rest goes along with it without batting an eyelid.

If a German doesn't speak well enough English there's no chance for them to get an accurate picture of what's happening in Gaza right now, or before for that matter. For decades, the German media has filtered the infos and hammered their Pravda editorial line about Palestine right into their heads but it reached new heights in the past six months. You have to see it to believe it. Even now, there's nothing in the news and now that the country is officially and rightfully accused of complicity in the Gaza genocide, they're doubling down on their support of Israel.

They're generally so paranoid about being accused of anti-semitism, so brainwashed and hardwired about the topic, that any criticism of Israel would probably cause their brain to fry.

I'd rather hope that Netanyahu turns a new leaf and works for a two state solution than expect anything from Germany. They're a lost cause.
 
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That_Bloke said:
Nah.

They're still on their guilt trip, with a good chunk of them either completely indifferent or absolutely loving what Israel's doing. There are growing dissenting voices especially amongst the younger generations, but they're a drop in the ocean at the moment. Everything is made to silence them anyway and the rest goes along with it without batting an eyelid.

If a German doesn't speak well enough English there's no chance for them to get an accurate picture of what's happening in Gaza right now, or before for that matter. For decades, the German media has filtered the infos and hammered their Pravda editorial line about Palestine right into their heads but it reached new heights in the past six months. You have to see it to believe it. Even now, there's nothing in the news and now that the country is officially and rightfully accused of complicity in the Gaza genocide, they're doubling down on their support of Israel.

They're generally so paranoid about being accused of anti-semitism, so brainwashed and hardwired about the topic, that any criticism of Israel would probably cause their brain to fry.

I'd rather hope that Netanyahu turns a new leaf and works for a two state solution than expect anything from Germany. They're a lost cause.
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I agree, Germany have absolutely shown themselves to be cowards that are so haunted by their past that they will do anything to avoid upsetting Israel or its people. The sickening irony is that by doing so they are supporting something that will go down in history as another genocide. Fair enough, it's not on the scale of the holocaust, but that won't matter to all those Palestinians who have died or are suffering and will suffer for years to come.

Saying that though, I can't honestly say many countries can be proud of how they have reacted. The Middle Eastern countries have either done or said feck all and outside a handful of countries from the rest of the world, they have either remained silent or continued to support Israel..

I'm absolutely fecking disgusted at how the UK have acted. Truly ashamed. The US also have acted indefensibly.

This should have been sorted out decades ago and the world has looked on. It could and should have been prevented. We just don't fecking learn. This is on the entire world and we all need to learn from it and prevent it ever happening again.

But we won't. Certainly not anytime soon .
 
That_Bloke said:
Nah.

They're still on their guilt trip, with a good chunk of them either completely indifferent or absolutely loving what Israel's doing. There are growing dissenting voices especially amongst the younger generations, but they're a drop in the ocean at the moment. Everything is made to silence them anyway and the rest goes along with it without batting an eyelid.

If a German doesn't speak well enough English there's no chance for them to get an accurate picture of what's happening in Gaza right now, or before for that matter. For decades, the German media has filtered the infos and hammered their Pravda editorial line about Palestine right into their heads but it reached new heights in the past six months. You have to see it to believe it. Even now, there's nothing in the news and now that the country is officially and rightfully accused of complicity in the Gaza genocide, they're doubling down on their support of Israel.

They're generally so paranoid about being accused of anti-semitism, so brainwashed and hardwired about the topic, that any criticism of Israel would probably cause their brain to fry.

I'd rather hope that Netanyahu turns a new leaf and works for a two state solution than expect anything from Germany. They're a lost cause.
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This isn't a correct depiction of the situation. There's all kinds of news about atrocities in Gaza in Germany.

The other points about a ridiculously biased reporting or doubling down after rightfully being accused are entirely right though
 
hellhunter said:
This isn't a correct depiction of the situation. There's all kinds of news about atrocities in Gaza in Germany.

The other points about a ridiculously biased reporting or doubling down after rightfully being accused are entirely right though
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Yep. The general criticism about our dealings with the situation is fair. But pretending that we don’t have reports on what’s happening is just unfounded. The Tagesschau regularly reports on it and frequently shows reports on the situation within Gaza.
 
HTG said:
Yep. The general criticism about our dealings with the situation is fair. But pretending that we don’t have reports on what’s happening is just unfounded. The Tagesschau regularly reports on it and frequently shows reports on the situation within Gaza.
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I have 2 impressions about this, can you confirm?

1. Humanitarian suffering is covered adequately in the german press. the political situation is not. i get this feeling because people have been cancelled for using the word apartheid or other less "provocative" descriptions of the political situation. (I would understand more if they were canceled for comparing it to a camp or calliing it a genocide).

2. That a lot of the cancelations are pushed academia/politicians - generally liberal people with some institutional power. The reason I think this is that general population polling in Germany showed support for a ceasefire, at or above US levels. And that the most delusional statements have been coming from regional governments or universities/"fancy" film festivals. So it seems to be a somewhat elite, liberal/left-leaning phenomenon (which would make sense since it is driven by memory culture which I guess would be strongest in those circles).
 
berbatrick said:
I have 2 impressions about this, can you confirm?

1. Humanitarian suffering is covered adequately in the german press. the political situation is not. i get this feeling because people have been cancelled for using the word apartheid or other less "provocative" descriptions of the political situation. (I would understand more if they were canceled for comparing it to a camp or calliing it a genocide).

2. That a lot of the cancelations are pushed academia/politicians - generally liberal people with some institutional power. The reason I think this is that general population polling in Germany showed support for a ceasefire, at or above US levels. And that the most delusional statements have been coming from regional governments or universities/"fancy" film festivals. So it seems to be a somewhat elite, liberal/left-leaning phenomenon (which would make sense since it is driven by memory culture which I guess would be strongest in those circles).
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I think this is a very fair assessment.
I think another factor is a hesitation by many to join protests. And those we have are often poorly organised and somewhat aggressive, which scares off the white middle class from active support.
 
hellhunter said:
This isn't a correct depiction of the situation. There's all kinds of news about atrocities in Gaza in Germany.

The other points about a ridiculously biased reporting or doubling down after rightfully being accused are entirely right though
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Fair point. I went in too heavy handed and will edit my post accordingly.

My point still stands though.
 
That_Bloke said:
that the country is officially and rightfully accused of complicity in the Gaza genocide, they're doubling down on their support of Israel.
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Can you elaborate why Germany is accused of genocide? What is Germany doing differently than the UK or US?
Never heard of that except for the Holocaust of course.
 
seems to be massive violence in the west bank but nothing on the guardian website, just saw a post here from @Amir and random posts on twitter
 
berbatrick said:
seems to be massive violence in the west bank but nothing on the guardian website, just saw a post here from @Amir and random posts on twitter
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Yeah, an Israeli journalist who was there taking photos of settlers damaging Palestinian property (after a Jewish teenager was murdered yesterday, don't know the full details),

the settlers ended up beating the journalist. lovely bunch.
 
Raven said:
Germans would want to be on high alert, their leaders are getting very authoritarian. Interesting given the legalisation of weed and the loosening of trans laws, perhaps they're throwing out these decent policies to keep the average German's mind away from the genocide their country is sponsoring.
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Not even sure these are good policies more a symptom of how ideologically corrupted everything is nowadays and how nothing makes sense.
 
B. Munich said:
I didn't decide anything. It's the German government which made the decision to ban him from entering the country and any political activity here.
I'm pretty sure the people who made this decision had much better information and knowledge than you or I have.
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Well you did decide something because you said you don't follow Palestinian extremists.

Ah yep they've made the decision so they must be right. Just like when the West Germans doubled down on support of apartheid south Africa when even other Western countries were dropping it....they must have have had better information and knowledge than I had.

And when the UK and USA designated Mandela as a terrorist.....they must have had more information than we did right?

And when the USA fecked Iraq, they must have had better information than us right?

And when Germany offered helmets to Ukraine....etc etc etc.
 
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